Sat 1st Jul: SL: Hull FC v Catalans Dragons KO 15:00

[MZH]

2 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Sounds like a great effort.

Monumental effort needed to catch up now, but looking at the fixtures we've beaten every team left to play except one... and we play them next week!

First half we weren't great. We weren't clinical enough with the ball and we conceded a couple of really soft ones. Second half we barely had the ball but fought with everything to keep our line intact. Can't be disappointed with the effort, execution was a different story, but we are still going in the right direction.

[Bradman Better]

The commentators mentioned that Hull were without some of their good players. But that is not an excuse for not winning because:

1. Hull's two best players far and away this season, Jake Clifford and Chris Satae, were both playing

2. Catalans were without their star half Mitchell Pearce, and their star new signing prop  Sio Siua Taukeiaho (both former Sydney Roosters who have won NRL Grand Finals with that club -- Pearce in 2013 and Taukeiaho in 2018 and  2019).

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Bradman Better

[jacksy]

Gave everything but Cats just that bit better.

Moore didn't have a bad game but i don't know what he sees with those set restarts.

Looks like we were ill disciplined and Cats were very disciplined. But they messed around and slowed the ruck down aplenty but barely got pinged. Oh well

[Tippytoe]

9 minutes ago, Bradman Better said:

The commentators mentioned that Hull were without some of their good players. But that is not an excuse for not winning because:

1. Hull's two best players far and away this season, Jake Clifford and Chris Satae, were both playing

2. Catalans were without their star half Mitchell Pearce, and their star new signing prop  Sio Siua Taukeiaho (both former Sydney Roosters who have won NRL Grand Finals with that club -- Pearce in 2013 and Taukeiaho in 2018 and  2019).

 

How are the Roosters doing this season?

[Bradman Better]

8 minutes ago, Tippytoe said:

How are the Roosters doing this season?

I will let you know tomorrow  

But I can say that the Roosters would be doing much better if they had Mitchell Pearce and Sio Siua Taukeiaho playing for them now. 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Bradman Better

[Bradman Better]

Attendance was 13,400.

Not bad considering that there were not a huge number of Catalans supporters who travelled from France.

[Ullman]

22 minutes ago, jacksy said:

Gave everything but Cats just that bit better.

Moore didn't have a bad game but i don't know what he sees with those set restarts.

Looks like we were ill disciplined and Cats were very disciplined. But they messed around and slowed the ruck down aplenty but barely got pinged. Oh well

They're very good at slowing down the ruck without getting caught out. 

Did a job on us all round today to be fair and always looked in control. They used their big advantage in size and weight to keep as at arm's length even when it was close on the scoreboard. It was efficient if not particularly exciting to watch.

For Hull the commitment in defence was outstanding. I don't know how many attacks were repelled in that second half and the Dragons only broke us with that well judged kick to the corner. We were poor with the ball though compared to recent performances.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

As a Dragons' fan, I was pleased and relieved that we came away with two points.

There is something of St Helens of the last four years in how Les Dracs are playing, particularly in defence.  They are very quick off the mark to stop the opposition making many metres, and very disciplined in setting up their defensive line and moving it laterally as necessary, while keeping the requisite shape.

MacNamara clearly felt that they lost some of that discipline last week against Leigh (but credit to the Leopards for exploiting it too).  Today was more like what sounds to have been the norm for Les Dracs in recent weeks.

Full credit to Our League for their coverage, not least of all in offering language options for the commentary.  I thought both the English commentary and the camera work were good.  The nearest to a gripe I would have would be the tendency to replay things like knock-ons, rather then show live the immediate consequences of that.  However, that complaint is true of all RL coverage on various channels (and especially on Sky).  All in all, for me, £6.95 well spent.

[Ullman]

1 minute ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

As a Dragons' fan, I was pleased and relieved that we came away with two points.

There is something of St Helens of the last four years in how Les Dracs are playing, particularly in defence.  They are very quick off the mark to stop the opposition making many metres, and very disciplined in setting up their defensive line and moving it laterally as necessary, while keeping the requisite shape.

MacNamara clearly felt that they lost some of that discipline last week against Leigh (but credit to the Leopards for exploiting it too).  Today was more like what sounds to have been the norm for Les Dracs in recent weeks.

Full credit to Our League for their coverage, not least of all in offering language options for the commentary.  I thought both the English commentary and the camera work were good.  The nearest to a gripe I would have would be the tendency to replay things like knock-ons, rather then show live the immediate consequences of that.  However, that complaint is true of all RL coverage on various channels (and especially on Sky).  All in all, for me, £6.95 well spent.

Our League said they would have more cameras than previously and the quality of the production would be higher. Sounds like they delivered which is good to hear. It's such a great option to have if you can't get to the game and very reasonably priced too.

[Mr Frisky]

1 hour ago, Bradman Better said:

The commentators mentioned that Hull were without some of their good players. But that is not an excuse for not winning because:

1. Hull's two best players far and away this season, Jake Clifford and Chris Satae, were both playing

2. Catalans were without their star half Mitchell Pearce, and their star new signing prop  Sio Siua Taukeiaho (both former Sydney Roosters who have won NRL Grand Finals with that club -- Pearce in 2013 and Taukeiaho in 2018 and  2019).

 

Star half..Mitchell Pearce... well done getting those words in the same sentence

[Ullman]

1 hour ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Sounds like a great effort.

Monumental effort needed to catch up now, but looking at the fixtures we've beaten every team left to play except one... and we play them next week!

We'll probably need to win seven of the remaining ten to sneak in but as you say, looking at the fixtures it's not beyond us. 

[Old Frightful]

Catalans easily the best team I've seen this season.

Having said that, we didn't challenge them nearly enough, sloppy play the ball and the passes from acting half were appalling. As has been said, a fantastic defensive effort aside from the soft effort near the posts. The penalty against Houghton was a killer, how are you supposed to have an effective take from the play the ball when someone is lying in the middle of it?

Les Cats were so quick off the defensive line that we didn't have much of a chance to form anything like decent attacking moves and, as I've already hinted, our delivery was poor.

To put it simply, they did a job on us.

[Ullman]

14 minutes ago, Old Frightful said:

Catalans easily the best team I've seen this season.

Having said that, we didn't challenge them nearly enough, sloppy play the ball and the passes from acting half were appalling. As has been said, a fantastic defensive effort aside from the soft effort near the posts. The penalty against Houghton was a killer, how are you supposed to have an effective take from the play the ball when someone is lying in the middle of it?

Les Cats were so quick off the defensive line that we didn't have much of a chance to form anything like decent attacking moves and, as I've already hinted, our delivery was poor.

To put it simply, they did a job on us.

The penalty call against Houghton was absurd, defender deliberately stays in place between the man playing the ball and the dummy half to impede the PTB yet wins the penalty.

[MZH]

50 minutes ago, Ullman said:

The penalty call against Houghton was absurd, defender deliberately stays in place between the man playing the ball and the dummy half to impede the PTB yet wins the penalty.

I know I just didn't get that call at all. He was on his knees and elbows in-between the man playing the ball and the DH, he was impeding Houghton, and he made no attempt to move. Houghton is well within his rights to give him a shove imo. And then subsequent angles showed he also had a hold of Brown's ankle whilst he way trying to play it. It was a big moment in the game because Hull had just scored and a Hull penalty would have seen them attacking Catalans line. Instead Catalans got the penalty and scored on that set.

[bobbruce]

1 hour ago, MZH said:

I know I just didn't get that call at all. He was on his knees and elbows in-between the man playing the ball and the DH, he was impeding Houghton, and he made no attempt to move. Houghton is well within his rights to give him a shove imo. And then subsequent angles showed he also had a hold of Brown's ankle whilst he way trying to play it. It was a big moment in the game because Hull had just scored and a Hull penalty would have seen them attacking Catalans line. Instead Catalans got the penalty and scored on that set.

I haven’t seen the incident but when I’ve seen ones like it penalised it’s usually because it’s seen as trying to force the refs hand. If he’d just played the ball and couldn’t get there he’d probably would’ve got the penalty. 

[Cw25]

2 hours ago, Old Frightful said:

Catalans easily the best team I've seen this season.

Having said that, we didn't challenge them nearly enough, sloppy play the ball and the passes from acting half were appalling. As has been said, a fantastic defensive effort aside from the soft effort near the posts. The penalty against Houghton was a killer, how are you supposed to have an effective take from the play the ball when someone is lying in the middle of it?

Les Cats were so quick off the defensive line that we didn't have much of a chance to form anything like decent attacking moves and, as I've already hinted, our delivery was poor.

To put it simply, they did a job on us.

Looks like they will get league leaders. Quite certain they won't even make the grand final.

[jacksy]

1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

I haven’t seen the incident but when I’ve seen ones like it penalised it’s usually because it’s seen as trying to force the refs hand. If he’d just played the ball and couldn’t get there he’d probably would’ve got the penalty. 

I know what you mean but this guy was bang in the middle, not moving or attempting to clear the ruck.

[Cheadle Leyther]

15 hours ago, Bradman Better said:

Attendance was 13,400.

Not bad considering that there were not a huge number of Catalans supporters who travelled from France.

That is an impressive crowd. Listened to the match on tinernet via Radio Humberside, but was distracted by the interventions of Alan Hunte who is almost unlistenable with his strangulation of the English language.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

Rugby League has a unique place amongst the sports in which I take some interest and it is this.  It has laws of play which are routinely ignored, or the 'penalising' of infringements of which consists of no more than the ref telling the offending player to try again and get it right.

This is particularly true of the PTB, which brings me to the Houghton incident in which he was penalised for pushing a Dragons player (I think it was Garcia) out of the way.

Here is what the law on PTBs actually says:

10. The play-the-ball shall operate as follows.

Release tackled player immediately (a) The tackled player shall be immediately released and shall not be touched until the ball is in play.

Regain feet (b) The tackled player shall without delay regain his feet where they were tackled, lift the ball clear of the ground, face the opponent’s goal line and drop or place the ball on the ground in front of their foremost foot.

Player marking (c) One opponent may take up the position immediately opposite the tackled player.

(d) The tackled player may not play the ball before the players effecting the tackle have had time to clear the ruck.

So, how much of that law is actually implemented routinely and regularly?  I would suggest only (c). 

There is constant nudging by opponents of the player they have just tackled, so (a) is not regularly enforced. 

To suggest (b) is followed is a joke.  Players routinely step forward two or three paces and suffer no more disapproval than being told to retreat to the point of the tackle.  Why?  To put it another way, why not suggest when a player throws a forward pass, that everyone returns to the last PTB and gives the forward pass thrower another chance to get it right?

Still on the subject of (b), when was the last time you saw a tackled player, on regaining his feet, drop the ball in front of their foremost foot and not get pinged for either a knock-on or incorrect PTB?  No, I cannot remember either!

(d) was the nub of the issue yesterday.  The current obsession with fast PTBs means that (d) above is routinely ignored.  Another law extols the virtue of speed at the PTB - fair enough, but it doesn't override the detail of (d) above.  However, tacklers have, for quite some time, been used to the idea that, after the teckle has been made, they must stay where they are for fear of being judged to have interfered with the attacker when they are getting out of the way and because they know that (d) will be ignored. 

This is the route to ever quicker, but ever messy, PTBs.

I know I am just a quirky old eccentric, but wouldn't it be good to have a sport in which all the laws of play and only the laws of play (ie no passing, faddish interpretations of them) are enforced on the field of play.

Meanwhile, back at the Houghton incident, who do you penalise?  Houghton for interfering with a tackler?  Garcia for not attempting to get out of the way?  Or the tackled player (forget who it was) for not allowing Garcia time to get out of the way?

Take your pick...and good luck!