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English girls in the NRLW


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On 06/08/2023 at 22:50, Dunbar said:

Caught up with all the performances this week.

Fran Goldthorp was solid in what was an outclassed team.  Strong with the ball in hand but still not quite enough involvement in the shift plays.

Georgia Roche looked a little bit off the pace for Newcastle but that is understandable in her first game.  She had some good touches though and set up the first try with a nice short kick.  I felt when Southwell (7) was out of the play the Knights tended to fo to Upton (1) for the playmaking - especially in the first half.  I hope Roche starts to demand the ball a bit more when she has more game time.

Hollie-Mae Dodd was very good again.  Technically very good in attack and defence and topped the tackle count for the Raiders.  Ran an excellent line for her first try.

I'm right on the Hollie-Mae Dodd hype train, but "very good" might be a slight exaggeration.

She needs to get the 2nd & 3rd person defensive flop out of her system. Pinged a few times, and lucky to get away a few more. I wonder if it's not punished as much in the UK game?

Also seems to get a bit tired later in the match and misses a few tackles. Is she playing every minute? Seems it, might be beneficial to give her a quick breather. Also has tried to push an offload a few times, and don't think it's come off yet.

Still, new to the comp in a new team, as a 20 year old, pretty damn good so far.

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5 hours ago, stookie said:

I'm right on the Hollie-Mae Dodd hype train, but "very good" might be a slight exaggeration.

She needs to get the 2nd & 3rd person defensive flop out of her system. Pinged a few times, and lucky to get away a few more. I wonder if it's not punished as much in the UK game?

Also seems to get a bit tired later in the match and misses a few tackles. Is she playing every minute? Seems it, might be beneficial to give her a quick breather. Also has tried to push an offload a few times, and don't think it's come off yet.

Still, new to the comp in a new team, as a 20 year old, pretty damn good so far.

Fair enough.  Maybe I am getting carried away with seeing the Brits doing well but very good is not a million miles away from pretty damn good.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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9 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Fair enough.  Maybe I am getting carried away with seeing the Brits doing well but very good is not a million miles away from pretty damn good.

Not getting carried away at all, the commentators rave about players like Jesse Southwell and Kirra Dibb for example but I though both players were pretty poor to be honest especially Southwell, she was shocking at times.

Even Zahara Tamara took several wrong options but got talked up.

Everything under the sun is in tune

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11 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Fair enough.  Maybe I am getting carried away with seeing the Brits doing well but very good is not a million miles away from pretty damn good.

(Bare in mind I'm viewing her as an English world cup international player. Judged as a 20 year old new to the comp, I can definitely agree with "very good").

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On 06/08/2023 at 10:36, RBKnight said:

Raiders got a bit lucky with a sin-binning of Kezie Apps for the merest delay in releasing a player from the tackle on a breakaway. Penalty perhaps, but the bin seemed harsh.

Edit: Raiders match report says it was for a "strip"!

Still, if that what it takes to clean up the tackle area, so be it..... Hollie got pinged ten minutes in last week against the Roosters for simply having a hand on an opponent's shoulder and she got up to play the ball!

On the Apps one.  Yes, you can see on the second replay that she stripped the ball after the tackle was complete.  The commentators didn't call it and thought it was for slowing down the play the ball.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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On 08/08/2023 at 14:34, Dunbar said:

On the Apps one.  Yes, you can see on the second replay that she stripped the ball after the tackle was complete.  The commentators didn't call it and thought it was for slowing down the play the ball.

Moot point whether there was any stripping action. Like an upright tackle where the ref calls "release" and the ball comes free when the players disengage. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. The defender seldom gets the benefit if it's after the call.

I'm holding to my verdict on the previous page that it was a second effort. Although looking again, there might have been enough momentum in the tackle for the ref to let that slide if the ball hadn't been lost/stripped.

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18 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Moot point whether there was any stripping action. Like an upright tackle where the ref calls "release" and the ball comes free when the players disengage. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. The defender seldom gets the benefit if it's after the call.

I'm holding to my verdict on the previous page that it was a second effort. Although looking again, there might have been enough momentum in the tackle for the ref to let that slide if the ball hadn't been lost/stripped.

Not really. She tackled her and then pulled the ball out.  Penalty and sin bin.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Here's an early provisional take on the disallowed Teagan Berry try in Dragons v Raiders that some Dragons fans are claiming cost them the game -

Only seen highlights so far. On those, Nine's commentators say no double movement because the ball-carrying arm remained up. But I'm pretty sure Kasey Badger calls "Held, Release". Hence the tackle was complete before the put down. Hence penalty. Which would mean the double movement rule applies to an upright tackle i.e. unlike when the ball is passed after a call of "Held", the ball-carrier cannot go back to the mark and play the ball.

We'll see if Annesley confirms this on Monday.

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This week’s report:

Hollie-Mae Dodd, solid and more aggressive in defence but not as involved in attack. Had a try disallowed. 7/10

Fran Goldthorp, her best game yet and while not at her absolute best it’s good to see her getting more involved every week. Safe under the high ball and took some tough carries. 8/10

Georgie Roche, still settling in to the team so no yet dominant enough but had a few nice touches. Saw her miss a couple of tackles which is unlike her. 7/10

Like to hear other people’s thoughts.

Edited by BroncoFan
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hollie Dodd didn't play against the Eels. Reasons unknown, at least to me. Back last week v Brisbane where the Raiders were overwhelmed in the second half. Winning margin would have been wider but for insane bunker interventions. Hollie was stood up by Ali Brigginshaw for the first Broncos try. Respectable performance otherwise.

Fran Goldthorp has so far been the best of our three. Kick reception is pivotal in women's RL. Never been harder for a fullback now that kick pressure is all but outlawed. In six games, can't recall Fran spilling anything. As regards tackling, some misses and half-misses against bigger opponents combined with a few genuine try-savers.

Georgia Roche seems tentative. Difficult for a playmaker to dictate in a new environment. Early days. Carried on where she left off in England using the rollball. Couple of times she's rolled it so hard it caused a stuff-up at dummy-half. Her teammate Tamika Upton is another rollballer. You'd think an Aussie coach would sort it out. No idea why NRLW refs allow something that in State comps is jumped on.

Re the general forum thread on set restart expedience -

There are no 6-agains in NRLW. And, notwithstanding the aforementioned exceptions, the ball is played correctly. Hence, the rucks are generally clean and intelligible. Not many penalties. One drawback is the reluctance of refs to allow quick taps. In centre field, teams are apt to forego the kick. For some female kickers, the prospect of modest gains in territory is not worth the risk of missing touch. Hence, if the women of NRLW were as cynical as the men of SL, they could wilfully concede penalties early in the tackle count with arguably greater impunity.

For the first time in NRLW two English girls are due to face each other this Saturday when the Raiders take on the Knights in a standalone fixture at GIO. Cowboys v Dragons later on at QCB.

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Hollie-Mae Dodd was pretty strong again for the Raiders.  Despite wearing 12, she started in the middle and so put on a good defensive shift.  Had few opportunities with the ball though.

As for Georgia Roche.  Again, she struggles to get the ball in attacking positions as Southwell and then Upton dictate the play.  When she does get the ball she isn't doing bad but in all honesty you probably wouldn't notice her a lot if she wasn't English and you had an eye on her all game.  I feel she can get a lot better in her NRLW stint. 

Will watch the Cowboys game later.

Edited by Dunbar
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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Just watched the Cowboys game.

A mixed bag for Goldthorp as she came up with a couple of errors.

But despite that she was clearly one of the Cowboys best in a heavy defeat.  She carried the ball well all game and scored her first try in NRLW.  A try that epitomised how she plays with tackle busts and footwork during a determined play to get to the line.

But I lost count of the number of times that Goldthorp was out the back for a potential shift play only for the Cowboys to hit the lead runner.  Very frustrating to watch and no doubt frustrating for her as she would have relished that space with the ball in hand.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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As mentioned above, varied afternoon for Fran. Error rate still compares well with other fullbacks in the comp. Try was a characteristic Tedesco-style pinball affair.

The Southwell/Roche balance of authority is not that surprising if you've seen interviews with the pair. Georgia is quiet and reserved, Jesse not so quiet and reserved. Footage was posted last year from a post-GF event of a seemingly well-refreshed Jesse yelling "I effing love Newcastle" to the local crowd. Maybe second fiddle is no bad thing for Georgia at this stage. She can lose confidence under adversity. 

Top two face off in Newcastle this Saturday. Roosters looking red hot. Their loss to the Raiders looks continuously more anomalous. Cowboys v Raiders Sunday on the Gold Coast.

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On 03/09/2023 at 02:10, Dunbar said:

Hollie-Mae Dodd was pretty strong again for the Raiders.  Despite wearing 12, she started in the middle and so put on a good defensive shift.  Had few opportunities with the ball though.

As for Georgia Roche.  Again, she struggles to get the ball in attacking positions as Southwell and then Upton dictate the play.  When she does get the ball she isn't doing bad but in all honesty you probably wouldn't notice her a lot if she wasn't English and you had an eye on her all game.  I feel she can get a lot better in her NRLW stint. 

Will watch the Cowboys game later.

There was also just under 2000 there in Canberra for a standalone NRLW game with a morning kickoff.

Next season any NRLW games in Canberra that can’t be part of a double header with the men will be played at a refurbished West Belconnen Warriors home ground in Kippax, Canberra.

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On 03/09/2023 at 02:10, Dunbar said:

Hollie-Mae Dodd was pretty strong again for the Raiders.  Despite wearing 12, she started in the middle and so put on a good defensive shift.  Had few opportunities with the ball though.

As for Georgia Roche.  Again, she struggles to get the ball in attacking positions as Southwell and then Upton dictate the play.  When she does get the ball she isn't doing bad but in all honesty you probably wouldn't notice her a lot if she wasn't English and you had an eye on her all game.  I feel she can get a lot better in her NRLW stint. 

Will watch the Cowboys game later.

Genuine question - what were the thoughts on Roche's game as a UK player? I only know her from the world cup, but that is a lot of 3am blur at this point.

She seems a bit slow for a 5/8 and as you say Dunbar, is not dominant in attack. Has looked good with the ball when it happens, but it's not been many times at this point.

If she can increase her workrate, I wonder if the future might be as a ball playing lock or similar?

 

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45 minutes ago, stookie said:

Genuine question - what were the thoughts on Roche's game as a UK player? I only know her from the world cup, but that is a lot of 3am blur at this point.

She seems a bit slow for a 5/8 and as you say Dunbar, is not dominant in attack. Has looked good with the ball when it happens, but it's not been many times at this point.

If she can increase her workrate, I wonder if the future might be as a ball playing lock or similar?

 

Others will have seen her more in the UK, have have seen some of her ganes but noth enough to have an informed decision... and so I will leave it to others to contribute. 

My initial thoughts are that she needs to work on her conditioning.  This year will have shown her the standard and so I hope she works hard to be ready for next year.  She has a 5 year deal at the Knights to plenty of time to prove herself. 

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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All 3 girls have had their moments, Rochey is playing in a strong team and has fitted in nicely. She didn’t have an off season with the Knights but so I would expect her to really kick in next season.

You can tell she is a natural footy player and reads the game well.

Hollie-Mae has shown her quality in some games but I don’t think she realises how good she can be. 
Dies anyone else think she has out on some size already since being in Canberra ?

Fran has frustrated me at times only because she didn’t seem to be getting herself into the right position in attack, not sure if she wasn’t reading the play or maybe the halves were the ones not reading the play.

Good to see her first try last week and it’s clear she is a class player.

Goldthorp is playing behind a weak pack who just can’t defend under sustained pressure so it has been harder for her.

Hope she sticks at it and returns for another season next year.

Edited by BroncoFan

Everything under the sun is in tune

But the sun is eclipsed by the moon

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