Top 5 players in the world

[NRLandSL]

24 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

 

I think a lot of it comes down to the opposition a player and team faces week in week out. Without doubt the NRL is the strongest league, so it’s really hard to rank a SL player in the World’s top 5 players, when they are not playing against the level and consistency of opposition the NRL players are. When you play with and against more high calibre players, it takes your own game even further and it starts with training, which all of players and coaches having experienced both league that I have spoken to will agree, the NRL is years ahead.

As for Welsby, I agree with @Dunbar that he is among the top echelon of the game’s FB’s. I would love to see him in the NRL. He would love life down in Cronulla especially.

As we have seen with Dodd signing, I expect as rumours swirl of NRL moving to 20 teams before the end of the decade, we will see more and more British spine players signed up in Aus.

Just don’t agree with this at all. Why does Welsby have to the other side of the world to prove himself as one of the best in the world. It’s like your putting a cap on how good English players can get, when in reality any player in SL is capeable of becoming one of the best in the world. Imagine saying Messi needs to play in the Prem to prove himself as one of the best in the world. It guess it goes to show we need a strong international game so players like Welsby get the respect they deserve without having to leave their home country.

Edited April 27 by NRLandSL

[NRLandSL]

3 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I think Welsby is superb.  I think he would be in the top 5 full backs in the NRL if he went over, and full back is the strongest position in the NRL. But top 5 players in the world is a high benchmark... higher than 'world class' as that could be top 13 or even one of the best in each position.

And believe me, I am not just using the league as a determiner, I think some Super League players are among the very best in the world in their position.  But again, best 5 players in the world is a very high watermark.

There’s no other Fullback in the world as complete as Welsby, he has mastered the position at only 23 which is something can hardly be said for any other fullback.

[sam4731]

23 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

Hate to disagree with you but London could not beat Penrith tomorrow (or the day after, or…..)

Controversial opinion.

[Dunbar]

8 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

There’s no other Fullback in the world as complete as Welsby

What can Welsby do that Kayln Ponga can't?

[Anita Bath]

5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

What can Welsby do that Kayln Ponga can't?

Avoid injuries?

[Sports Prophet]

30 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

Just don’t agree with this at all. Why does Welsby have to the other side of the world to prove himself as one of the best in the world. It’s like your putting a cap on how good English players can get, when in reality any player in SL is capeable of becoming one of the best in the world. Imagine saying Messi needs to play in the Prem to prove himself as one of the best in the world. It guess it goes to show we need a strong international game so players like Welsby get the respect they deserve without having to leave their home country.

I am not saying Messi needed to play in the Prem to be considered the best player in the world, but neither could he have earned that accolade playing in the Argentine Primera División.

It’s a sad state of affairs. There are only two fully professional leagues across the globe and in my opinion, the NRL is years ahead of SL and the clubs are decades in front, so I believe the disparity is too high for a player to earn such high esteem playing in a league of such standing.

One side effect I do see of more Brits joining the NRL, will be the demand for more representative matches against England and NZ whose players are not eligible for SOO.

[Sports Prophet]

54 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

Hate to disagree with you but London could not beat Penrith tomorrow (or the day after, or…..)

I doubt London could beat Newtown Jets!

[Sports Prophet]

*double post

Edited April 27 by Sports Prophet

[sam4731]

11 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I doubt London could beat Newtown Jets!

I don't think there's even any doubt about that.

[NRLandSL]

51 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

What can Welsby do that Kayln Ponga can't?

There very close with Ponga’s elite running game but Welsby is better defender, better offloader of the football and possesses a passing/playmaking game better than ponga’s.

 

[NRLandSL]

32 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I am not saying Messi needed to play in the Prem to be considered the best player in the world, but neither could he have earned that accolade playing in the Argentine Primera División.

It’s a sad state of affairs. There are only two fully professional leagues across the globe and in my opinion, the NRL is years ahead of SL and the clubs are decades in front, so I believe the disparity is too high for a player to earn such high esteem playing in a league of such standing.

One side effect I do see of more Brits joining the NRL, will be the demand for more representative matches against England and NZ whose players are not eligible for SOO.

The gap between the NRL and SL just isn’t large as you’re making it out to be and many things have proved that over the past few years. The NRL is a quicker competition with far more fans and money but the genuine skill difference between the two leagues isn’t enermous, especially with top teams in SL.

The bottom teams in SL are horrible compared to the bottom teams in the NRL but the likes of saints, Wigan, Catalans, etc have proved that they are some of the best teams in the world.

Edited April 27 by NRLandSL

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, NRLandSL said:

The gap between the NRL and SL just isn’t large as you’re making it out to be and many things have proved that over the past few years. The NRL is a quicker competition with far more fans and money but the genuine skill difference between the two leagues isn’t enermous, especially with top teams in SL.

The bottom teams in SL are horrible compared to the bottom teams in the NRL but the likes of saints, Wigan, Catalans, etc have proved that they are some of the best teams in the world.

I think the gap between NRL and SL is significant enough to call one competition a standout leader and that leader certainly is not SL. Nor do I agree with you “many things have proved” otherwise “over the past few years”.

If those “things” you are referring to are the results of once a year, pre-season fixtures, then I disagree with your assertion.

I do agree Saints, Wigan and Catalans are capable of holding their own in the NRL. The depth of the SL is where I challenge any notion of the competition being of a same standard as the NRL. Which again goes back to my Welsby comment. He isn’t being tested week in and week out in the same way the NRL Fullbacks are. It is hard for me to determine if he is on par with Kennedy or on par with Ponga, but I do stand by my position. Until we see him wowing us in the Premier competition on a weekly basis, he will find it difficult to feature in most people’s choice (subjective as that is anyway) of “Best Fullback in the World”.

[NRLandSL]

3 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I think the gap between NRL and SL is significant enough to call one competition a standout leader and that leader certainly is not SL. Nor do I agree with you “many things have proved” otherwise “over the past few years”.

If those “things” you are referring to are the results of once a year, pre-season fixtures, then I disagree with your assertion.

I do agree Saints, Wigan and Catalans are capable of holding their own in the NRL. The depth of the SL is where I challenge any notion of the competition being of a same standard as the NRL. Which again goes back to my Welsby comment. He isn’t being tested week in and week out in the same way the NRL Fullbacks are. It is hard for me to determine if he is on par with Kennedy or on par with Ponga, but I do stand by my position. Until we see him wowing us in the Premier competition on a weekly basis, he will find it difficult to feature in most people’s choice (subjective as that is anyway) of “Best Fullback in the World”.

I just don’t think a player needs to be playing in the best competition in the world to be the best or one of the best players in the world. But you do and I respect your opinion.

I just don’t think it’s fair to put a limit on how good a player can be based on their weekly opposition. Mbappe plays in an Ligue 1 and is regarded as one of the best players in the world.

Though i think we definitely need a strong international game or an expanded WCC so these debates between the two leagues aren’t based of 1 game a year and a few internationals here and there.

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, NRLandSL said:

I just don’t think a player needs to be playing in the best competition in the world to be the best or one of the best players in the world. But you do and I respect your opinion.

I just don’t think it’s fair to put a limit on how good a player can be based on their weekly opposition. Mbappe plays in an Ligue 1 and is regarded as one of the best players in the world.

Though i think we definitely need a strong international game or an expanded WCC so these debates between the two leagues aren’t based of 1 game a year and a few internationals here and there.

PSG do compete at an elite level in the Champions League, so we do see Mbappé exposed to the best players in the world on a regular occasion.

I welcome the day we can have a regular international calendar and even more so a meaningful intercontinental club competition. I agree it will put to bed some of these debates about the standing of individual players, coaches and clubs from the SL.

Some may say we already have a meaningful intercontinental club competition. I disagree it fits the description of meaningful.

[DavidM]

11 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I would take Mulitallo and Coates as my wingers before even considering To’o.

I took at the moment literally after just watching him play 

[bobbruce]

I think Welsby current form highlights the difference in the two comps. There is no doubting at his best he’s up there with anyone but he’s currently going through a spell of what for him is poor form as you’d expect with a young player.  In the NRL this could well see you dropped to reserve grade whereas in SL no matter how poorly Welsby’s form is he’s still better than the next option in the squad. I also think it’s part of the reason some players like field and French struggled in the NRL but thrive in SL. 

[NRLandSL]

1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

I think Welsby current form highlights the difference in the two comps. There is no doubting at his best he’s up there with anyone but he’s currently going through a spell of what for him is poor form as you’d expect with a young player.  In the NRL this could well see you dropped to reserve grade whereas in SL no matter how poorly Welsby’s form is he’s still better than the next option in the squad. I also think it’s part of the reason some players like field and French struggled in the NRL but thrive in SL. 

He really hasn’t been that bad IMO. Had a poor game against Warrington but the past two weeks he’s looked pretty good. Was pretty impressed by his running game against Huddersfield aswell, he looked dangerous every time he ran the ball and his passing was pin point. I guess being the best player in the comp, he will get criticised every game he isn’t an absolute stand out.

Definitely not at his best form right now but still going pretty alright.

[Sports Prophet]

2 hours ago, DavidM said:

I took at the moment literally after just watching him play 

Sorry David, I don’t understand?

[Harry Stottle]

17 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I think if Welsby went to the NRL he'd be dynamite and in everyone's 5

As it is he is dynamite in our league so most people won't count it 

Welsby very very suspect on 1 on 1 tackles to be up there with the best, for me I will perm any one of 10  full backs in Australia who are better than Welsby, Tedesco, Paps, Pongia, Edward's, Tommy Turbo, Drinkwater, RTS, Walsh, Gutherson, and then there is AJ Brimson, Bula, and Joey Manu if he plays there, and if Mitchell has his proper head on.

 

[NRLandSL]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Welsby very very suspect on 1 on 1 tackles to be up there with the best, for me I will perm any one of 10  full backs in Australia who are better than Welsby, Tedesco, Paps, Pongia, Edward's, Tommy Turbo, Drinkwater, RTS, Walsh, Gutherson, and then there is AJ Brimson, Bula, and Joey Manu if he plays there, and if Mitchell has his proper head on.

 

You’ve got to be having a laugh mate, no way this isn’t satire. Probably the worst comment I’ve ever seen on this forum and I’ve seen some bad ones.

[DavidM]

46 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Sorry David, I don’t understand?

He had a great game against the cowboys so I put him in !

[Dunbar]

26 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

You’ve got to be having a laugh mate, no way this isn’t satire. Probably the worst comment I’ve ever seen on this forum and I’ve seen some bad ones.

I really don't see why it is such a poor comment.  There are a lot of very full backs in the NRL.  I think there is an argument to say that Tedesco, Papenhuyzen, Ponga, Edwards, Tom Trbojevic, Manu, Walsh, Gutherson are as good as if not better than Welsby - they could all be argued to be as good as or better than each other, that's the point of these opinions.

Then there is Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad, Hamiso Tabuai-Fidow and Will Kennedy who were not mentioned before the likes of RTS, Brimson, Drinkwater and a form Mitichell are considered.

Welsby is as good as some and better than others but he is not a stand out when compared to this list.

  

Edited April 28 by Dunbar

[NRLandSL]

20 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I really don't see why it is such a poor comment.  There are a lot of very full backs in the NRL.  I think there is an argument to say that Tedesco, Papenhuyzen, Ponga, Edwards, Tom Trbojevic, Manu, Walsh, Gutherson are as good as if not better than Welsby - they could all be argued to be as good as or better than each other, that's the point of these opinions.

Then there is Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad, Hamiso Tabuai-Fidow and Will Kennedy who were not mentioned before the likes of RTS, Brimson, Drinkwater and a form Mitichell are considered.

Welsby is as good as some and better than others but he is not a stand out when compared to this list.

  

There are a lot of good players on that list but Welsby is in the top 3 without question. He said that those ten players are all better than Welsby which is a completely outrageous comment and couldn't be further from the truth. Welsby is a far more complete player than all of those guys and has mastered every aspect of his game which can't be said for some of those other fullbacks.

I'm not sure he has written that comment based on any reason or truth. Rather he is just angry at the SL for some reason and feels the need to belittle it and its players compared to the NRL. Bula better than Welsby , how could you not find that hilarious. In what world is an average NRL fullback better than the SL's best player, it just makes no sense because it's complete rubbish.

If the SL's best players were worse than solid-average NRL players, I don't think the SL would have won more WCC's.

Edited April 28 by NRLandSL

[Dunbar]

7 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

There are a lot of good players on that list but Welsby is in the top 3 without question. He said that those ten players are all better than Welsby which is a completely outrageous comment and couldn't be further from the truth. Welsby is a far more complete player than all of those guys and has mastered every aspect of his game which can't be said for some of those other fullbacks.

I'm not sure he has written that comment based on any reason or truth. Rather he is just angry at the SL for some reason and feels the need to belittle it and its players compared to the NRL. Bula better than Welsby , how could you not find that hilarious. In what world is an average NRL fullback better than the SL's best player, it just makes no sense because it's complete rubbish.

If the SL's best players were worse than solid-average NRL players, I don't think the SL would have won more WCC's.

Let's just try and find a bit of balance and look at things objectively. 

Yes, Harry was probably a bit over the top with his statement but there was a fair bit of truth in the fact that the NRL is flush with top quality full backs.

And your point... "if the SL's best players were worse than solid-average NRL players, I don't think the SL would have won more WCC's."

Well, 3 of the last 5 Man of Steel awards (the definition of the best player in the UK) were Jackson Hastings, Brodie Croft and Bevan French and they were / are average NRL players.

[NRLandSL]

45 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Let's just try and find a bit of balance and look at things objectively. 

Yes, Harry was probably a bit over the top with his statement but there was a fair bit of truth in the fact that the NRL is flush with top quality full backs.

And your point... "if the SL's best players were worse than solid-average NRL players, I don't think the SL would have won more WCC's."

Well, 3 of the last 5 Man of Steel awards (the definition of the best player in the UK) were Jackson Hastings, Brodie Croft and Bevan French and they were / are average NRL players.

Those guys all transformed their games when moving to England and improved dramatically during their time in SL. Of course the decrease in quality in the SL compared to NRL is a huge factor as well but a change of environment can bring out the best in a lot of players. Those three guys are all now far from an average player in the NRL.

Yes the NRL is loaded with world-class fullbacks and to put 5 of them above Welsby is a perfectly fair thing to do but to say guys like Bula and Brimson are better than Welsby is just outright silly.