Pacific Championships 2024

[ghost crayfish]

15 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

If England are resulting to fielding a whole team of English players to play against rather than France or PNG, International rugby league might as well not exist.

Who said anything about 'rather than'. 

[NRLandSL]

18 minutes ago, ghost crayfish said:

Who said anything about 'rather than'. 

They’ve deemed the France game “not living up to its potential” after 2 iterations. I suspect the PNG game isn’t happening so if they were to play “Ireland” (England) Instead it would make a mockery out of international rugby league.

[sam4731]

1 hour ago, NRLandSL said:

I agree 5-6+ tests a year should be the minimum.  Bring back mid season tests, no idea why they were scrapped in the first place. England V France, Australia V NZ, PNG V Tonga and Samoa v Fiji should take place every mid season, also France V Wales aswell and possibly England V Wales.

My Ideal International colander would be

Year 1-Mid season tests, Pacific Cup (2 Groups of 3) ENG V France post season, others games for Cook Islands, Wales etc.

Year 2-Mid season tests, World Cup (12 teams 6 Pacific, 4 Europe, 1 Americas, 1 Repechage)

Year 2-Mid Season tests, Ashes, PNG tour of France, Fiji-NZ-Sam-Tonga tests.

Year 4-Mid Season tests, New Zealand or other pacific nation touring England, France touring Australia and Pacific. 

I would like a genuine pacific cup to happen once every 2-3 years but it would be hard to fit with all the tours and limited space.

Also Run Continental tournaments which acts as World Cup qualifiers every few years. In Americas, Europe, Africa, Asia, Pacific (Bougainville and Cook Islands)

This is my ideal international colander.

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, sam4731 said:

This is my ideal international colander.

Edited: mistake

Edited December 9, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[Big Picture]

8 hours ago, NRLandSL said:

They’ve deemed the France game “not living up to its potential” after 2 iterations. I suspect the PNG game isn’t happening so if they were to play “Ireland” (England) Instead it would make a mockery out of international rugby league.

Ditto Australia, New Zealand and PNG playing "Tonga", "Samoa" and "Fiji".

[gingerjon]

9 hours ago, NRLandSL said:

They’ve deemed the France game “not living up to its potential” after 2 iterations. I suspect the PNG game isn’t happening so if they were to play “Ireland” (England) Instead it would make a mockery out of international rugby league.

England and England Knights have played France 60 times.

France's record is P60 W8 D2 L50.

The average scoreline is France 11-28 England. The last three were 8-40, 0-64, 18-42. So the average is getting worse.

There are good reasons to play France. It being a competitive or interesting game is not one of them.

[NRLandSL]

6 hours ago, gingerjon said:

England and England Knights have played France 60 times.

France's record is P60 W8 D2 L50.

The average scoreline is France 11-28 England. The last three were 8-40, 0-64, 18-42. So the average is getting worse.

There are good reasons to play France. It being a competitive or interesting game is not one of them.

Of course the average has gotten worse since the French glory days. Though it has stayed the same over the past 25-30 years. 

[sam4731]

7 hours ago, gingerjon said:

England and England Knights have played France 60 times.

France's record is P60 W8 D2 L50.

The average scoreline is France 11-28 England. The last three were 8-40, 0-64, 18-42. So the average is getting worse.

There are good reasons to play France. It being a competitive or interesting game is not one of them.

I just can't see what the value in the game being played is.

[NRLandSL]

32 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

I just can't see what the value in the game being played is.

Because it’s international rugby league, and if we ever want rugby league to the grow, the bare minimum is to have annual fixtures between two neighbouring countries. If we can’t even sustain that Rugby league in Europe is never going to grow. The NRL are beginning to become the only ones who care about growing the sport.

[warriors 95]

5 hours ago, sam4731 said:

I just can't see what the value in the game being played is.

Argentina national RU team constantly got pumped by the bigger nations for well over 40+ years but they stuck at it and kept playing them at look at them now.

similar situation today with nations like Uruguay, Italy and Portugal etc who are today’s Argentina but could potentially be top tier RU playing countries in 20-25 years time.

[sam4731]

2 hours ago, warriors 95 said:

Argentina national RU team constantly got pumped by the bigger nations for well over 40+ years but they stuck at it and kept playing them at look at them now.

similar situation today with nations like Uruguay, Italy and Portugal etc who are today’s Argentina but could potentially be top tier RU playing countries in 20-25 years time.

There are a number of differences here:

Top quality opposition: The top nations weren't reliant on one team to play high level matches on demand. In the NH you have the 6 Nations and in the SH there was Australia, NZ and SA. These teams could throw the odd tier 2 team as bone without having to worry about getting a high level match elsewhere.

Italy: you're whole analogy with Argentina completely falls down with Italy. Despite plugging away for 25 years in the 6N, they have still got the wooden spoon 18 times, including 8 out of the last 9.

Money: what it always comes down to. World Rugby have far more money, resources and influence that the IRL have. They can afford to help the development of tier 2 nations without them having to see to themselves.

[gingerjon]

55 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

There are a number of differences here:

Top quality opposition: The top nations weren't reliant on one team to play high level matches on demand. In the NH you have the 6 Nations and in the SH there was Australia, NZ and SA. These teams could throw the odd tier 2 team as bone without having to worry about getting a high level match elsewhere.

Italy: you're whole analogy with Argentina completely falls down with Italy. Despite plugging away for 25 years in the 6N, they have still got the wooden spoon 18 times, including 8 out of the last 9.

Money: what it always comes down to. World Rugby have far more money, resources and influence that the IRL have. They can afford to help the development of tier 2 nations without them having to see to themselves.

There are a lot of ignored countries in RU as well. Just going back to their first World Cup in 1987 and Zimbabwe, Romania and Canada are there. Three countries who have gone backwards in a global sense, along with the USA who have never progressed but who are kept going by dead horse floggers and will host in 2031.

You can probably add a tier of countries like Uruguay who were 'big' enough to be noticed pre professionalism but who aren't anything special now.

A lesson to be learnt from RU could easily be: why have so few countries joined the top table and why have a greater number gone backwards?

[fighting irish]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

There are a lot of ignored countries in RU as well. Just going back to their first World Cup in 1987 and Zimbabwe, Romania and Canada are there. Three countries who have gone backwards in a global sense, along with the USA who have never progressed but who are kept going by dead horse floggers and will host in 2031.

You can probably add a tier of countries like Uruguay who were 'big' enough to be noticed pre professionalism but who aren't anything special now.

A lesson to be learnt from RU could easily be: why have so few countries joined the top table and why have a greater number gone backwards?

I confess I don't know much about RaRa other than it's played here in my home town.

Perhaps the lesser countries you mentioned failure to improve is due to a lack of international competition?

That wasn't a rhetorical question, I've no idea, if they do or not, so do the minnows play other minnows in some kind of ladder, enabling them to grow (and measure their improvement along the way)? 

[fighting irish]

19 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Ditto Australia, New Zealand and PNG playing "Tonga", "Samoa" and "Fiji".

It seems to me that your whole raison d'etre is to make a mockery out of Rugby League, both domestic and International. 

[gingerjon]

23 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I confess I don't know much about RaRa other than it's played here in my home town.

Perhaps the lesser countries you mentioned failure to improve is due to a lack of international competition?

That wasn't a rhetorical question, I've no idea, if they do or not, so do the minnows play other minnows in some kind of ladder, enabling them to grow (and measure their improvement along the way)? 

They play a decent number of international games. A general idea would be twice as many as the most active RL nations but not as many as soccer. Numbers rise around World Cups and championships.

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

I confess I don't know much about RaRa other than it's played here in my home town.

Perhaps the lesser countries you mentioned failure to improve is due to a lack of international competition?

That wasn't a rhetorical question, I've no idea, if they do or not, so do the minnows play other minnows in some kind of ladder, enabling them to grow (and measure their improvement along the way)? 

They have a pretty good structure for International competitions on the global and regional stage. Though there is a problem with the top of that tree being sealed off with the 6 Nations and Rugby Championship for the top 10 nations, though that in itself has grown by 2 in the past 25 years - and perhaps it will change again with Japan and the Pacific gaining greater prominence.

Likewise, their multiple international windows mean that outside of major tournaments there is the opportunity to tour and host tours. This autumn alone the top 10 nations have hosted the Pacific Island nations, Portugal, Japan, Georgia - as well as nations like Uruguay and Chile touring Europe to play A teams and full internationals against Spain, Romania, Netherlands etc, and the USA and Canada playing too as well as South Korea, Kenya and Hong Kong. There were games taking place all over the world. 

Not all of them are 80k at Twickenham. A lot frankly are in sub 15k venues. But they play consistently and build up a following. We almost had this in Canada for their home games before the Wolfpack, and that sadly appears to have all been lost. I'll also add that all of their games had neutral referees too for those that care about these things

They also work on levels beyond just that top tier internationals. Tours from clubs and schools in stronger nations are welcomed and encouraged. Those bonds dig deep roots and a genuine native rugby culture is fostered.

We do neither of these very well, complain when it doesn't work instantly, then throw the towel in.

[Sports Prophet]

22 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Ditto Australia, New Zealand and PNG playing "Tonga", "Samoa" and "Fiji".

To be a little bit pedantic, I don’t think Fiji fit the same profile as Samoa and Tonga for the point you are making.

[Exiled Wiganer]

On 09/12/2024 at 14:57, Big Picture said:

Ditto Australia, New Zealand and PNG playing "Tonga", "Samoa" and "Fiji".

The mask not so much slipping as being discarded and burnt to cinders.