England v Australia 2025 - coming to the UK?

[The Masked Poster]

All I will say on this one is: PLEASE LET IT BE TRUE!

This could  be the defib moment that the international game in this country needs. 

[Eddie]

8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

This doesn’t stack up, we are told all too often this NRL administration have no interest in international RL. Must be a mistake.

My preference would be Wembley, then Newcastle and finally Manchester. I think Elland Rd is setting the bar too low.

Actually, maybe St James, with a series victory opportunity to fill Wembley and then hopefully take a 1-1 series to Etihad to finish it off.

 

If you want to see rugby league played in half empty stadiums then Wembley would be a great choice. 

[Eddie]

5 hours ago, Jim from Oz said:

If the Ashes tour of the UK is on, and at the same time the RLWC Men's Qualifying World Series (South Africa, Jamaica, Cook Islands and France) is on in France at (roughly) the same time, would make it attractive for Aussie RL fans to go on a supporters' tour to Europe to (hopefully)  watch both series …

Do you think many Aussies would be interested in flying across the world to go to Jamaica v South Africa? 

[GeordieSaint]

If this rumour is true, it is a great example of why the international game is a mess. It’s treated as an afterthought with no concrete plans maintained and delivered. 

Anyway, if it does happen, there should be a game in the NW (Liverpool or Manchester), a game in London, and a game in Yorkshire (Leeds). 

Edited October 28, 2024 by GeordieSaint

[The Masked Poster]

9 minutes ago, Eddie said:

If you want to see rugby league played in half empty stadiums then Wembley would be a great choice. 

I disagree. If (big word in RL I know) they grasp the baton early enough and really run with it, they could well fill Wembley for such a prestigious sporting team as the Kangaroos. 
 

Note: if they announce it next September and have a few adverts in League Express, then sell tickets via a club *and* restrict the choice of tickets, then it will not be quite the same. But if it's confirmed....start the build up then, no messing. 
And before someone mentions budgets, things like SM campaigns can be done very cheaply, if not free.

[Dave T]

8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Could it have been at England’s request?

Even if this is solely at the behest of the NRL, you can’t even see that the NRL might be making a positive decision for the benefit of the international game. Maybe the NRL are seeking to correct what they think is a mistake in the current international schedule up to 2028.

Its just another opportunity for you to have a crack at the NRL.

I'm not sure why you're portraying this as such a positive. An Ashes next year was always in plan, so what are we meant to be thankful to the NRL for?

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

I disagree. If (big word in RL I know) they grasp the baton early enough and really run with it, they could well fill Wembley for such a prestigious sporting team as the Kangaroos. 
 

Note: if they announce it next September and have a few adverts in League Express, then sell tickets via a club *and* restrict the choice of tickets, then it will not be quite the same. But if it's confirmed....start the build up then, no messing. 
And before someone mentions budgets, things like SM campaigns can be done very cheaply, if not free.

There is not a cat in hells chance that we would get 90k. There is no evidence we would, it's based on zero.

Edited October 28, 2024 by Dave T

[Father Gascoigne]

 

1 minute ago, The Masked Poster said:

I disagree. If (big word in RL I know) they grasp the baton early enough and really run with it, they could well fill Wembley for such a prestigious sporting team as the Kangaroos. 
 

Note: if they announce it next September and have a few adverts in League Express, then sell tickets via a club *and* restrict the choice of tickets, then it will not be quite the same. But if it's confirmed....start the build up then, no messing. 
And before someone mentions budgets, things like SM campaigns can be done very cheaply, if not free.

England x Australia attendances in London this century:

• 33,785 (Twickenham)
• 42,344 (Wembley)
• 35,569 (Olympic Stadium)

There's no reason to believe 85,000+ is a realistic aim even with advanced planning. 

Emirates and THS would both be better options, but I suspect that the RFL's relationship with Wembley--being the rugby league national stadium after all--probably gives it an edge. The upside is that Wembley can still look good if the upper tier is closed, and you wouldn't need more than 50-60,000. 

 

[Dave T]

8 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

If this rumour is true, it is a great example of why the international game is a mess. It’s treated as an afterthought with no concrete plans maintained and delivered. 

Anyway, if it does happen, there should be a game in the NW (Liverpool or Manchester), a game in London, and a game in Yorkshire (Leeds). 

A perfect lineup would be Spurs, Man City and Elland Rd.

Although Newcastle and Everton would be very good choices.

I'd expect Spurs, Bolton and Elland Rd which was the 2020 plan.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

There is not a cat in hells chance that we would get 90k. There is no evidence we would, it's based on zero.

No. But 60k at Wembley would not be a disaster, especially if it could be an evening game under lights. Similarly 40-45k at Spurs or the Emirates.

But if the wish is to recreate three sellouts across the M62 then that's more than doable but wouldn't have the impact/reach of a non heartlands opener.

Not that I think this is the instant solution to the game's ills that some seem to think it is, I should add. We've had Australia over here in many forms and still lost crowds, money and sponsors during enough of those times to be realistic.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

No. But 60k at Wembley would not be a disaster, especially if it could be an evening game under lights. Similarly 40-45k at Spurs or the Emirates.

But if the wish is to recreate three sellouts across the M62 then that's more than doable but wouldn't have the impact/reach of a non heartlands opener.

Not that I think this is the instant solution to the game's ills that some seem to think it is, I should add. We've had Australia over here in many forms and still lost crowds, money and sponsors during enough of those times to be realistic.

50k plus would be great and achievable. 60k would be amazing and would beat that 57k in 1994.

[The Masked Poster]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

There is not a cat in hells chance that we would get 90k. There is no evidence we would, it's based on zero.

Well we managed to get 67k (?) at Wembley for the 2013 SF, which had a decent publicity drive, including then London Mayor Boris Johnson. It CAN be done if the will is there. 

Now, this might seem weird, but I'm also talking about pitching the game to people who have never been to a game of RL in their lives! New people! They might have heard of RL but never been, so market the all conquering Kangaroos being in town as a big deal. Never mind the NFL, get a load of this!! Hype it up, don't play it down mumbling and staring at our shoes. 

Or maybe throw our hands on the air and decide that people like that (let's call them the events crowd) just aren't interested in RL and accept our lot.

[The Masked Poster]

3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

No. But 60k at Wembley would not be a disaster, especially if it could be an evening game under lights. Similarly 40-45k at Spurs or the Emirates.

But if the wish is to recreate three sellouts across the M62 then that's more than doable but wouldn't have the impact/reach of a non heartlands opener.

Not that I think this is the instant solution to the game's ills that some seem to think it is, I should add. We've had Australia over here in many forms and still lost crowds, money and sponsors during enough of those times to be realistic.

The past is exactly that. This could be a real opportunity to revive both the international game and boost interest in the domestic game. 
 

I use the word "could" purposely there. If they don't bother, the result will be exactly the same as before. 

[Dave T]

Just now, The Masked Poster said:

Well we managed to get 67k (?) at Wembley for the 2013 SF, which had a decent publicity drive, including then London Mayor Boris Johnson. It CAN be done if the will is there. 

Now, this might seem weird, but I'm also talking about pitching the game to people who have never been to a game of RL in their lives! New people! They might have heard of RL but never been, so market the all conquering Kangaroos being in town as a big deal. Never mind the NFL, get a load of this!! Hype it up, don't play it down mumbling and staring at our shoes. 

Or maybe throw our hands on the air and decide that people like that (let's call them the events crowd) just aren't interested in RL and accept our lot.

That was a World Cup semi final with exceptional circumstances. 

Wembley is huge, too big imo, but we should be able to get a very good crowd in. 

But just because the capacity is 90k doesn't mean the market is 90k at this stage.

[sweaty craiq]

IF this is correct it should go London, Manchester and Bradford. Pick weekends the trains aren’t on strike also by negotiating with the unions. 
 

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

A perfect lineup would be Spurs, Man City and Elland Rd.

Although Newcastle and Everton would be very good choices.

I'd expect Spurs, Bolton and Elland Rd which was the 2020 plan.

I agree with your perfect lineup but I'd switch the order to Spurs, Elland Road then Man city. I think a series at 1-1 would have a bigger demand for tickets than the Elland Road capacity.

 

Really hope that this goes ay

[The Masked Poster]

Just now, Dave T said:

That was a World Cup semi final with exceptional circumstances. 

Wembley is huge, too big imo, but we should be able to get a very good crowd in. 

But just because the capacity is 90k doesn't mean the market is 90k at this stage.

But we've had WC semi finals before, like 2000 at Bolton, with paltry attendances. 2013 showed what can be done if the will is there. Which too often it simply isn't in RL. 

I'm not actually suggesting we definitely should have a game at Wembley either,  merely that the notion of filling (or almost) it for a side as notable as the Kangaroos should not be seen as some sort of ludicrous pipe dream- it could well be achieved. 

[Father Gascoigne]

Just now, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

I agree with your perfect lineup but I'd switch the order to Spurs, Elland Road then Man city. I think a series at 1-1 would have a bigger demand for tickets than the Elland Road capacity.

 

Really hope that this goes ay

Australia leading 2-0 going into the third game would also alter the picture. There's sense in hosting at a 'sure thing' for a third game that could be either a decider or dead rubber. It would mitigate some risk. 

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

50k plus would be great and achievable. 60k would be amazing and would beat that 57k in 1994.

Going on 'vibes' at this point. 50k feels like a minimum and 60k a decent challenge target.

Obviously, right now, the key thing is to go back to @GeordieSaint's point.

This is somebody having to make the best of a shambles. There's no point having a set calendar if you just get it out of the drawer every few months and go, "Hang on, did no one realise we're expected to host two major events in two years? Better get that fixed."

[Dave T]

Just now, gingerjon said:

Going on 'vibes' at this point. 50k feels like a minimum and 60k a decent challenge target.

Obviously, right now, the key thing is to go back to @GeordieSaint's point.

This is somebody having to make the best of a shambles. There's no point having a set calendar if you just get it out of the drawer every few months and go, "Hang on, did no one realise we're expected to host two major events in two years? Better get that fixed."

What is slightly frustrating for me personally is that yesterday me and my wife actually discussed potentially visiting Oz next year, and tying it in with the Ashes.

But then I suppose I'd never be so stupid as to take RL authorities at their word when they say something is happening.

[The Masked Poster]

14 minutes ago, Father Gascoigne said:

 

England x Australia attendances in London this century:

• 33,785 (Twickenham)
• 42,344 (Wembley)
• 35,569 (Olympic Stadium)

There's no reason to believe 85,000+ is a realistic aim even with advanced planning. 

Emirates and THS would both be better options, but I suspect that the RFL's relationship with Wembley--being the rugby league national stadium after all--probably gives it an edge. The upside is that Wembley can still look good if the upper tier is closed, and you wouldn't need more than 50-60,000. 

 

I'm not suggesting that merely having the Kangaroos playing at Wembley means it would be full, as you show the attendances have never been up to that level. 
But here's the thing, they forget about the past and try a new approach. Try to get otherwise uninterested people to attend, even if out of curiosity because they've been told this team are really something. Whatever it takes.

Its a different world since the Australians did a serious tour, let's get with the programme for a change. 

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

4 minutes ago, Father Gascoigne said:

Australia leading 2-0 going into the third game would also alter the picture. There's sense in hosting at a 'sure thing' for a third game that could be either a decider or dead rubber. It would mitigate some risk. 

Many (most) of the tickets would probably be sold prior to the Aussies getting here, I talking about being able to capitalise should the opportunity arise

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Going on 'vibes' at this point. 50k feels like a minimum and 60k a decent challenge.

On this point, we do have a huge problem in that because of a lack of any consistency and continuity we are starting from scratch pretty much every time. And that won't be any different next year. That doesn't mean we cant get good crowds, but it will make it much harder for the new marketing director and team to work their magic.

In the last 15 years or so in London we've peaked at 67k, but we've also dropped as low as 35k for the Aussies. Every ticket sale has to be worked for in RL, we don't have an established fan base that give us an instant 30k sales for a game like this. Things like stadium selection, kick off time, fixture clashes with other sports etc. have a huge impact. 

All our own fault I would add.

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

But then I suppose I'd never be so stupid as to take RL authorities at their word when they say something is happening.

I got burnt by the 'we are definitely having an NZ series and a European Championships in 2022*'. They were announced, the latter actually had fixtures.

I don't believe any of it now.

* (actually 2023, got years muddled)

Edited October 28, 2024 by gingerjon

[Father Gascoigne]

Just now, The Masked Poster said:

I'm not suggesting that merely having the Kangaroos playing at Wembley means it would be full, as you show the attendances have never been up to that level. 
But here's the thing, they forget about the past and try a new approach. Try to get otherwise uninterested people to attend, even if out of curiosity because they've been told this team are really something. Whatever it takes.

Its a different world since the Australians did a serious tour, let's get with the programme for a change. 

I agree. I would certainly hope the people tasked with selling tickets would be playing every card up their sleeve to shift as many as possible.

That said, I'm inclined though to err on the side of history. I see evidence that 50-60,000 is a feasible and realistic ceiling, whichever stadium they opt for. But until the game gives us evidence that selling out Wembley is a realistic aim, no reason to start reaching for the stars just yet. 

Earlier you mentioned that the Kangaroos should be promoted as a prestigious brand, but you've also highlighted here why they aren't in the eyes of the English public. They don't do serious tours. There is no meaningful rivalry that is on par with cricket's Ashes. It's hard to then expect the public to view things any differently, no matter how it's presented to them.