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Eagles to go full-time in 2016

tim2

By tim2
in The General Rugby League Forum

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tim2

tim2

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http://www.sheffieldeagles.com/News/Article/40937

 

Not surprising I suppose - just needed the confirmation of the top 4 finish. Of course, this doesn't guarantee anything (a London found out) but it's a big step for the club and if/when the new stadium arrives it sets them up nicely as contenders to be an SL club.

 

Plenty of competition though, and who knows what the RFL will decide next time they need to restructure the game.

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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tim2

tim2

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Do Sheffield have a rich backer then?   I don't mean to offend anyone but they've got like 10 fans.

 

Full time is a must really to have a chance of promotion

 

What makes anyone think that income at a club is linearly related to, or dominated by, the crowd size? Or that viability (which is income-expenditure) is related either?

 

Fans can't have it both ways - it's either what you do on the pitch that counts, or you have licensing that takes into account your stadium, youth development, crowd size and total turnover.

 

I believe the club constitution is set up to not allow a single majority shareholder to decide everything - look what happened last time in 1999.

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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Lounge Room Lizard

Lounge Room Lizard

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Dont think Sheffield are anywhere near ready for SL to be honest and having a small fan base doesnt help. Just because you are FT doesnt guarentee you will get promoted. Halifax for example are PT and smashed London who are supposed to be FT and also Sheffield, who have a number of FT Players. There is a mad rush of short term thinking that we must get/stay in to SL. The Problem is the Setup and Money is not there. Look at how many SL Clubs struggle, even with People pouring in hundreds of thousands! Spending more on Players doesnt mean they will be better than what you have. If Sheffield have the Money, Infrastructure and Support then good. But I am not sure they have the infrastructure or Support to be a FT Team.

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tim2

tim2

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So have they got a rich backer then? are are they going full time based on prize money accrued this year?

 

They've been partly full-time (if that makes sense) this year - quite a few players and some coaches are full-time.

 

Revenue comes from many sources - it can be gate revenue, prize money, multiple backers, sponsors, grant funding (players doubling as community coaches etc.).

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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tim2

tim2

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Dont think Sheffield are anywhere near ready for SL to be honest and having a small fan base doesnt help. Just because you are FT doesnt guarentee you will get promoted. Halifax for example are PT and smashed London who are supposed to be FT and also Sheffield, who have a number of FT Players. There is a mad rush of short term thinking that we must get/stay in to SL. The Problem is the Setup and Money is not there. Look at how many SL Clubs struggle, even with People pouring in hundreds of thousands! Spending more on Players doesnt mean they will be better than what you have. If Sheffield have the Money, Infrastructure and Support then good. But I am not sure they have the infrastructure or Support to be a FT Team.

 

Indeed it may not work but whatever happens the setup is such that it shouldn't let them spend beyond their ability to pay for it.

 

You're right as well that being in Super League and competing with the big boys means spending close to the salary cap and that needs someone with money to burn. And then you risk a Bulls-style implosion. Clubs can only do what they think is best - become a part-time feeder club bouncing between playing full-time Championship sides one year and Skolars/South Wales the next, or going for it in the hope that you can build your crowds or that the game finds a source of cash to level out the playing field.

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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Ackroman

Ackroman

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What makes anyone think that income at a club is linearly related to, or dominated by, the crowd size? Or that viability (which is income-expenditure) is related either?

 

I can think of a few on here. With any luck though, they'll miss this thread and we'll be allowed to discuss the merits of second tier full time clubs. 

 

For me it's a good thing. if you can sustain a full time team in the Championship, then the middle 8's become competitive and a potential step to SL a realistic possibility.

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Leythersteve

Leythersteve

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Not bein funny but what the club should be doin is some kind of promotion to get fans in. Like koukash keeps tryin at salford. Maybe bring a friend for free. Cos youve got a good quality entertaining team. It just needs a marketing strategy. Good luck in mid 8s. But not against Leigh obviously.

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tim2

tim2

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Not bein funny but what the club should be doin is some kind of promotion to get fans in. Like koukash keeps tryin at salford. Maybe bring a friend for free. Cos youve got a good quality entertaining team. It just needs a marketing strategy. Good luck in mid 8s. But not against Leigh obviously.

 

Tried all those. I think having a stadium they can make into a proper home will help - unlike the old DVS that was quite possibly the worst designed stadium for rugby league this one should have more atmosphere.

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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Southampton Leyther

Southampton Leyther

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Tried all those. I think having a stadium they can make into a proper home will help - unlike the old DVS that was quite possibly the worst designed stadium for rugby league this one should have more atmosphere.

 

What sort of crowds have Eagles been getting this year? Crowd figures that i've seen seem to have been all over the place, presumably as all your home games have been double headers with Donny making it harder to accurately count.

 

For the none double headers (ie Sheffield v Donny and Donny v Sheffield) attendances were around the 900 mark. Is that about average? Seemed about 1000ish on when Leigh played there but that was with around 450 from Leigh.

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tim2

tim2

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What sort of crowds have Eagles been getting this year? Crowd figures that i've seen seem to have been all over the place, presumably as all your home games have been double headers with Donny making it harder to accurately count.

 

For the none double headers (ie Sheffield v Donny and Donny v Sheffield) attendances were around the 900 mark. Is that about average? Seemed about 1000ish on when Leigh played there but that was with around 450 from Leigh.

 

In reality that#s about right. Probably about 20% down on equivalent gates at Don Valley a couple of years ago.

 

Owlerton was a disaster zone and you're only getting the real hardcore to travel 20+ miles to home games. Stability off the field is what's needed to support the (relative) success on the field. 

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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bamfordsbeans

bamfordsbeans

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Its not just full time that is the issue.You could pay a squad of 25 £20k a year or £40K a year and still get in the salary cap.That difference of £500K a year if they seriously want to compete wil have to be found somewhere.

If they want to take the lower option it could be some players prefer to stay part time and get similar payments from other clubs.

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EssexRL

EssexRL

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Dont think Sheffield are anywhere near ready for SL to be honest and having a small fan base doesnt help. Just because you are FT doesnt guarentee you will get promoted. Halifax for example are PT and smashed London who are supposed to be FT and also Sheffield, who have a number of FT Players. There is a mad rush of short term thinking that we must get/stay in to SL. The Problem is the Setup and Money is not there. Look at how many SL Clubs struggle, even with People pouring in hundreds of thousands! Spending more on Players doesnt mean they will be better than what you have. If Sheffield have the Money, Infrastructure and Support then good. But I am not sure they have the infrastructure or Support to be a FT Team.

Interesting point about the advantage or not of FT players. I have not seen it make any difference for London this season as was expected.

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Guest

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Good luck to the eagles. Sheffield along with Manchester should be top priorities in aggressively expanding RL at grassroots level, 2 huge cities right on our doorstep.

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Adelaide Tiger

Adelaide Tiger

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I'd like to say all the best to Sheffield. IMHO they have built slowly and steadily to be in a position when they can go full time.

If, and this is a big IF, other clubs in the Championship can build a strong foundation based on sound financial management then maybe 5/10 years down the line we may see 2 full time divisions with a shrinking salary cap gap between them.

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Krytensmate

Krytensmate

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I'd like to say all the best to Sheffield. IMHO they have built slowly and steadily to be in a position when they can go full time.

If, and this is a big IF, other clubs in the Championship can build a strong foundation based on sound financial management then maybe 5/10 years down the line we may see 2 full time divisions with a shrinking salary cap gap between them.

An even climable ladder from the bottom to top with achievable steps hopefully is what the long term plan will be

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The Parksider

The Parksider

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 it's a big step for the club and if/when the new stadium arrives it sets them up nicely as contenders to be an SL club.

 

 

Do Sheffield have a rich backer then?   I don't mean to offend anyone but they've got like 10 fans.

 

Full time is a must really to have a chance of promotion

 

 

Dont think Sheffield are anywhere near ready for SL to be honest and having a small fan base doesnt help. Just because you are FT doesnt guarentee you will get promoted. 

 

 

For me it's a good thing. if you can sustain a full time team in the Championship, then the middle 8's become competitive and a potential step to SL a realistic possibility.

 

OK so here we have a game badly in debt, with decreasing attendances and a crisis in player production, decreasing the size of the top division.......

 

Yet somehow small time clubs with few fans, no junior development and a dependency on picking up the scraps from the big clubs for a team suddenly start going fully professional.

 

So much so that Adelaide tiger above thinks that in "5-10 years down the line" we will have a full time championship.

 

What a joke.

 

Last year the Championship averaged 1,095 fans per game.

 

Wasn't this a Championship that had a salary cap of £300K to ensure the clubs didn't go bust?

 

Wasn't it the case some clubs couldn't afford that??

 

Now we're all talking about a step up to SL for championship clubs being a "realistic possibility"

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The Parksider

The Parksider

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Interesting point about the advantage or not of FT players. I have not seen it make any difference for London this season as was expected.

 

Yes they pay players who aren't anywhere near SL standard full time wages.

 

Simply paying championship players to be full time isn't going to make teams SL quality

 

All it does is raise the wage bill

 

Whilst at the same time London's crowds have crashed. 

 

Do full time London have a "realistic possibility" of a return to Superleague?

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tim2

tim2

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It's a little unfair to say that the Eagles have no junior development. They have run scholarships and academies for a few years now - admittedly the community game in the area is struggling, but that's true everywhere. I'm less worried about the Eagles' viability than I am about that. No community game, no professional game.

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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The Parksider

The Parksider

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It's a little unfair to say that the Eagles have no junior development. They have run scholarships and academies for a few years now - admittedly the community game in the area is struggling, but that's true everywhere. I'm less worried about the Eagles' viability than I am about that. No community game, no professional game.

 

Tim,

 

When it comes to the development of professional RL players capable of stocking a Superleague team not even a dyed in the wool RL city like Wakefield who have been in Superleage for sixteen years can do this never mind Sheffield.

 

To answer the points on the eagles crowds last year they attracted 829 fans a game

 

To answer the point on the new ground being key it's ironic Doncaster got that new ground and last year averaged 806 fans.

 

This isn't about becoming a Superleague club. Compare and contrast Doncaster and Sheffield with Leeds and Wigan or even Hull and Catalans who came 7th and 8th. in the Elite end of Superleague.

 

This is about clubs who still have some ambition seeing that the structural changes mean they can become SL clubs for three quarters of a season, providing cannon fodder to the Elite.

 

In short Sheffield believe if Wakefield can do it they can and if they don't do it, like many of the clubs outside the Elite they could go into a decline like the Hunslet's Swinton's York's and Barrow's 

 

"Full time" doesn't mean much at all as we see London are full time and aren't Featherstone not far off it??

 

Full time means survival not Elite Superleague and that is the hard fact bottom line.

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