Jump to content

Relegation

Wellsy4HullFC

Recommended Posts

scotchy

scotchy

Posted
Posted

We talk of mid 8's but the intensity will be greater in the elite 8's with a 4 team play off

Except mathematically 1 team will likely not be able to qualify from the start having no intensity in their games and that spreads very quickly throughout that league. Most of the games in that 8 will be dead rubbers.

Then we have a strong possibility of the damage we do to the prestige and value of the GF when we have a playoff barely worthy of the name.

If you think the criticism was loud when Leeds won it from 5th, wait until we see the criticism of the system when a team finishes top after 30 games including a whole round of fixtures against their rivals aren't champions and hat title goes to a side who sneak in to 4th and are champions courtesy of winning two whole games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 229
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Bulliac

Bulliac

Posted
Posted

Not very confident of your current squad are you

 

 

 

To be truthful, I've not seen a few of the players in a competitive match yet, so it's fair to say it's a little open ended.

 

It seems to be a decent squad for this division, but like all squads in our division it will need improving if we were to gain promotion. One thing is for sure though, whilst being promoted is still a possibility due to various extraneous factors, we won't be promoted because we have a better squad than any of the SL clubs, and neither will you. We may have luck with injuries and therefore have the better players on the day, we may get the bounce of the ball, it may just be our day, we might even get the majority of the 50 - 50s from the ref...no, discount that one..Lol.

 

It certainly won't be because we have the stronger squad though and I'm puzzled about your reluctance to accept that simple fact, if you haven't got the better squad with twice the money to play with then your management aren't doing a very good job, and by the same token if you can't improve your squad with double the money the same applies. Mind, if I were in charge I'd put it about that I would be keeping 80% of current staff too, after all, it's not very motivating to know that after promotion you're likely to get the chop is it.

No team is an island.........................................

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31337109@N03/

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wolford6

Wolford6

Posted
Posted

I think that, by Championship standards, the Bulls have a large number of good players and only five or six really good players. Thus we can handle injuries better than most of our rivals but will struggle in the playoffs.

Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GaryO

GaryO

Posted
Posted

The system when a team finishes top after 30 games including a whole round of fixtures against their rivals aren't champions and hat title goes to a side who sneak in to 4th and are champions courtesy of winning two whole games.

What's wrong with it? It is a league structure to determine the top 4 spots, ie gain qualification for a semifinal spot, we all know the rules at the outset, problem solved.

Granted some did moan when Leeds won from 5th, but it is a lopsided contest, you can only be called champs if every team plays each other an equal number of times in a season, the mere fact that we have an extra game as in the Magic Weekend causes that imbalance, hence the team who finishes at the top of the weekly rounds, are the League Leaders, which along with the second placed team grants them an advantage of a home fixture in the additional Championship competition.

"If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League"

Link to comment
Share on other sites
scotchy

scotchy

Posted
Posted

What's wrong with it? It is a league structure to determine the top 4 spots, ie gain qualification for a semifinal spot, we all know the rules at the outset, problem solved.

Granted some did moan when Leeds won from 5th, but it is a lopsided contest, you can only be called champs if every team plays each other an equal number of times in a season, the mere fact that we have an extra game as in the Magic Weekend causes that imbalance, hence the team who finishes at the top of the weekly rounds, are the League Leaders, which along with the second placed team grants them an advantage of a home fixture in the additional Championship competition.

in principle I have no issue with it. I'm a fan of the play - offs and GF. I am because I like the idea of it not only being the consistency of the league structure but the big game quality of the play offs aswell deciding our champions.

However the thing about the play - offs was/is the difficulty of it. Leeds to win from 5th had to put together a great run of form. I don't think you can say 2 games is a good run of form. I think the playoffs being one game and a final devalues them somewhat.

As I say I don't disagree with a league play off structure but for the play offs to mean something the GF has to produce the champion otherwise you have he old premiership that no one took notice of. And I think it is far more difficult to say that the GF winners should be champs under this system than the previous one because the play offs now last one game. I think it is devalued and a team who finishes top but doesn't win the GF has a far bigger claim as 'true champions'

Link to comment
Share on other sites
sweaty craiq

sweaty craiq

Posted
Posted

Switzerland. What's frustrating is they dumped it stating pretty much the exact issues people have with it. That it created a two tier top league (or exacerbated that problem) and interest rapidly waned in the bottom two 8's.

 

Switzerland has an 8m population and since its SL commenced in 2003 only 2 clubs have won it - its a bit like Scottish Football but they only have one winner now that Rangers have hit the wall

Link to comment
Share on other sites
scotchy

scotchy

Posted
Posted

Switzerland has an 8m population and since its SL commenced in 2003 only 2 clubs have won it - its a bit like Scottish Football but they only have one winner now that Rangers have hit the wall

8m is a bit more than what is realistically our market now and since 2003 we have only had 4 winners. We are pretty similar.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GaryO

GaryO

Posted
Posted

in principle I have no issue with it. I'm a fan of the play - offs and GF. I am because I like the idea of it not only being the consistency of the league structure but the big game quality of the play offs aswell deciding our champions.

However the thing about the play - offs was/is the difficulty of it. Leeds to win from 5th had to put together a great run of form. I don't think you can say 2 games is a good run of form. I think the playoffs being one game and a final devalues them somewhat.

As I say I don't disagree with a league play off structure but for the play offs to mean something the GF has to produce the champion otherwise you have he old premiership that no one took notice of. And I think it is far more difficult to say that the GF winners should be champs under this system than the previous one because the play offs now last one game. I think it is devalued and a team who finishes top but doesn't win the GF has a far bigger claim as 'true champions'

Premiership, Championship, Play-Offs whatever guise is put on it, it still amounts to the same thing, a competition that is in place to correct the imbalance of fixtures, I do not and did not believe that having a "second chance" was the correct way, the fact that one had home advantage up to the final should have been enough, and I do believe it should have been 1 v 8, 2 v 7 and so on with the highest league placing having home advantage in the next round.

"If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League"

Link to comment
Share on other sites
The Parksider

The Parksider

Posted
Posted

Ultimately my point though is that it is a 12 team SL - any of the 12 could be crowned Super League Champions in 2015. That is a 12 team league no matter how it is positioned.

 

Well it is a 12 club Superleague at the start of the season and it ends as an 8 club super league at the end of the season. So we can argue both ways.

 

But my point is the effect of giving the top eight a new status, and providing them with extra "plum" fixtures with big crowds, whilst at the same time sending for e.g. Wakey, Widnes, Cas and HKR off to play Sheffield and Featherstone creates a greater advantage for the top eight and a greater disadvantage for the also rans.

 

You have to remember that as Nigel Wood has said people make the mistake of thinking the salary cap is fixed at £1.8M and it isn't. Wood says the most successful clubs can spend with prize money up to £2.5M a year on players.

 

(Source RL & LE 9/3/2015 page 3 article by Chris Jones where Wood is quoted)

 

This means that there is probably a massive difference between say Wakefield and St.Helens already of well over £1M in wage spends. In this brave new world Wakey versus Sheffield may scrape 3,000 whilst Saints can have another bumper pay day of an extra 14,000 crowd against Leeds.

 

Putting in a divide between SL clubs in which the clubs finances are boosted if your top eight and depressed if your bottom four will only polarise clubs. 

 

Everyone tipped Wakefield for bottom and they won two games with people declaring that Superleague was an even contest and everyone can beat everyone else.

 

The cracks are already showing now at Wakefield, I expect more cracks to show for any SL club who annually ends up being "relegated" to the middle tier. If Wakefield implode financially Leigh and Bradford are waiting to replace them, but they are themselves only £1M salary capped clubs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
scotchy

scotchy

Posted
Posted

Premiership, Championship, Play-Offs whatever guise is put on it, it still amounts to the same thing, a competition that is in place to correct the imbalance of fixtures, I do not and did not believe that having a "second chance" was the correct way, the fact that one had home advantage up to the final should have been enough, and I do believe it should have been 1 v 8, 2 v 7 and so on with the highest league placing having home advantage in the next round.

It wasn't really the 2nd chance. I'm ambivalent about that. More that 1 game a play off series does not make.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
scotchy

scotchy

Posted
Posted

but fans have voted with their feet in the play offs, showing that the final is all that matters

but the final is based on that. The success of it is based upon the value attached to it, which is greater because of what went before it, the play offs were a build up to the grand final. That had now been lost.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
thundergaz

thundergaz

Posted
Posted

To save this thread going to 160 pages of the same old same old. No one will go up and no one will come down anytime soon. The middle 8s will be boring after 2 seasons of seeing the SL teams run riot against the champ clubs. Until the salary cap is closer between the 2 leagues the middle 8 will be dead rubbers between the SL clubs and championship clubs. The bulls played us the other week and we were rubbish to say the least probably the worst we've played in years and I still think the scoreline flattered bradford. If we were playing Cas hull etc they would of got 80 at least not 40.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Krytensmate

Krytensmate

Posted
Posted

To save this thread going to 160 pages of the same old same old. No one will go up and no one will come down anytime soon. The middle 8s will be boring after 2 seasons of seeing the SL teams run riot against the champ clubs. Until the salary cap is closer between the 2 leagues the middle 8 will be dead rubbers between the SL clubs and championship clubs. The bulls played us the other week and we were rubbish to say the least probably the worst we've played in years and I still think the scoreline flattered bradford. If we were playing Cas hull etc they would of got 80 at least not 40.

Was it the tea leaves or the tarot cards ? , I'm just collecting the various ways of ' predictions ' then i can do a league table of the most successful ' mumbo jumbo ' that totalrl fans use

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Krytensmate

Krytensmate

Posted
Posted

To be truthful, I've not seen a few of the players in a competitive match yet, so it's fair to say it's a little open ended.

 

It seems to be a decent squad for this division, but like all squads in our division it will need improving if we were to gain promotion. One thing is for sure though, whilst being promoted is still a possibility due to various extraneous factors, we won't be promoted because we have a better squad than any of the SL clubs, and neither will you. We may have luck with injuries and therefore have the better players on the day, we may get the bounce of the ball, it may just be our day, we might even get the majority of the 50 - 50s from the ref...no, discount that one..Lol.

 

It certainly won't be because we have the stronger squad though and I'm puzzled about your reluctance to accept that simple fact, if you haven't got the better squad with twice the money to play with then your management aren't doing a very good job, and by the same token if you can't improve your squad with double the money the same applies. Mind, if I were in charge I'd put it about that I would be keeping 80% of current staff too, after all, it's not very motivating to know that after promotion you're likely to get the chop is it.

i just dont get this salary cap nonsense , so no club on less salary cap , or less money spent has ever beaten a team on a higher one ? , somebody had better tell those bradford city players that they didnt actually beat Chelsea , it was all a dream

 

With regards the contracts at Leigh most of the players are on 2/3/4 year full time contracts , be that Championship or SL

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GaryO

GaryO

Posted
Posted

To save this thread going to 160 pages of the same old same old. No one will go up and no one will come down anytime soon. The middle 8s will be boring after 2 seasons of seeing the SL teams run riot against the champ clubs. Until the salary cap is closer between the 2 leagues the middle 8 will be dead rubbers between the SL clubs and championship clubs. The bulls played us the other week and we were rubbish to say the least probably the worst we've played in years and I still think the scoreline flattered bradford. If we were playing Cas hull etc they would of got 80 at least not 40.

Very little faith in your team haven't you Gaz, at least 80? C'mon surely that was a tongue in cheek statement, I will contact you if you draw Cas, Hull, etc in the cup and we can have a little wager, should imagine the queue would be quite long though with your fellow flat cappers wanting a piece of that.

On another point, I was a bit apprehensive about Sunday at your place, I would have thought that Fev would be raising their game against Leigh.

"If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League"

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Krytensmate

Krytensmate

Posted
Posted

Why do we need to do that? Why would we ignore the other 3/4 of the season?

 

Super League is being played now, we are 4 rounds in, Hudds are 11th and Hull KR are 12th.

 

I accept the point that if this goes badly we could see the same teams in that bottom four, yet never be relegated (that is the extreme worst case - unlikely to happen, but I accept it may) - and then fans of those teams could see themselves as poor relations and their crowds go down, but tbh, in any case, even in a licensing system if we had the same four teams finishing 9th-12th every year and missing the playoffs their crowds would drop and fans would disengage with the club anyway - as you rightly point out, success is important for many fans.

 

Ultimately my point though is that it is a 12 team SL - any of the 12 could be crowned Super League Champions in 2015. That is a 12 team league no matter how it is positioned.

So we start with a 12 team SL , then an 8 , then a 4 , then a 2 , then a winner

 

Whereas before we had a 14 team SL , then an 8 , then a 6 , then a 4 , then a 2, then a winner , completely different scenario , any idiot can see that

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.