Relegation

[Dave T]

Well it is a 12 club Superleague at the start of the season and it ends as an 8 club super league at the end of the season. So we can argue both ways.

But my point is the effect of giving the top eight a new status, and providing them with extra "plum" fixtures with big crowds, whilst at the same time sending for e.g. Wakey, Widnes, Cas and HKR off to play Sheffield and Featherstone creates a greater advantage for the top eight and a greater disadvantage for the also rans.

You have to remember that as Nigel Wood has said people make the mistake of thinking the salary cap is fixed at £1.8M and it isn't. Wood says the most successful clubs can spend with prize money up to £2.5M a year on players.

(Source RL & LE 9/3/2015 page 3 article by Chris Jones where Wood is quoted)

This means that there is probably a massive difference between say Wakefield and St.Helens already of well over £1M in wage spends. In this brave new world Wakey versus Sheffield may scrape 3,000 whilst Saints can have another bumper pay day of an extra 14,000 crowd against Leeds.

Putting in a divide between SL clubs in which the clubs finances are boosted if your top eight and depressed if your bottom four will only polarise clubs.

Everyone tipped Wakefield for bottom and they won two games with people declaring that Superleague was an even contest and everyone can beat everyone else.

The cracks are already showing now at Wakefield, I expect more cracks to show for any SL club who annually ends up being "relegated" to the middle tier. If Wakefield implode financially Leigh and Bradford are waiting to replace them, but they are themselves only £1M salary capped clubs.

on my phone so cant reply in full, but i was also interested in tge point that a club could be spending £2.5m on the sc, would be interesting to know more about that, as its the first tiMe ive seen a number so high.

[Krytensmate]

on my phone so cant reply in full, but i was also interested in tge point that a club could be spending £2.5m on the sc, would be interesting to know more about that, as its the first tiMe ive seen a number so high.

It's prize money Dave , not guaranteed and only the winners can get it

[thundergaz]

Very little faith in your team haven't you Gaz, at least 80? C'mon surely that was a tongue in cheek statement, I will contact you if you draw Cas, Hull, etc in the cup and we can have a little wager, should imagine the queue would be quite long though with your fellow flat cappers wanting a piece of that.

On another point, I was a bit apprehensive about Sunday at your place, I would have thought that Fev would be raising their game against Leigh.

I always have faith in my team as what's the point if you don't lol. But against bradford that is the worst we've played for a very long time an amatuer team could of probably beat us that day (yes tongue in cheek but you know what I mean). We have won 3 games this season but I don't know how we've been poor in every game but managed to win which I suppose is good for when/if we do gel/ come good. But to be honest we are playing very ugly but winning but I can't see us beating you guys on Sunday unless we up our game dramatically. I'm expecting a similar score as the bulls one if I'm being honest but I would love to be proved wrong but just can't see it myself. But playing as badly as we are and currently being in the top 4 bodes very well for a top 4 finish which after the first four games I've seen I wouldn't think it would be possible lol. But we can only get better so that's a plus and the other semi pro teams must be worried if were in the top 4 and playing this badly at the moment it doesn't bode well for them at this present time.

[The Parksider]

Against bradford that is the worst we've played for a very long time..............

 

I can't see us beating you guys(leigh)  on Sunday unless we up our game dramatically. I'm expecting a similar score as the bulls one if I'm being honest..................

 

But playing as badly as we are and currently being in the top 4 bodes very well for a top 4 finish......

 

Blimey Gazzer

 

It would then bode "well" for some big thrashings off the SL clubs in the play offs?

[Krytensmate]

I always have faith in my team as what's the point if you don't lol. But against bradford that is the worst we've played for a very long time an amatuer team could of probably beat us that day (yes tongue in cheek but you know what I mean). We have won 3 games this season but I don't know how we've been poor in every game but managed to win which I suppose is good for when/if we do gel/ come good. But to be honest we are playing very ugly but winning but I can't see us beating you guys on Sunday unless we up our game dramatically. I'm expecting a similar score as the bulls one if I'm being honest but I would love to be proved wrong but just can't see it myself. But playing as badly as we are and currently being in the top 4 bodes very well for a top 4 finish which after the first four games I've seen I wouldn't think it would be possible lol. But we can only get better so that's a plus and the other semi pro teams must be worried if were in the top 4 and playing this badly at the moment it doesn't bode well for them at this present time.

So you're rubbish ?

Or not , as the case may be ?

I expect Leigh's hardest match to date on Sunday

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Switzerland. What's frustrating is they dumped it stating pretty much the exact issues people have with it. That it created a two tier top league (or exacerbated that problem) and interest rapidly waned in the bottom two 8's.

I thought we couldn't compare to football? Or is it only when it suits?

They replaced it with P&R. Does that mean we should?

[thundergaz]

Blimey Gazzer

It would then bode "well" for some big thrashings off the SL clubs in the play offs?

Parky nobody in their right mind expected Fev to go up this season not being full time put paid to that. Our goal is a top 4 finish and build on it next season.

[thundergaz]

I expect Leigh's hardest match to date on Sunday

I hope your right and we do ya lol.

[Krytensmate]

Parky nobody in their right mind expected Fev to go up this season not being full time put paid to that. Our goal is a top 4 finish and build on it next season.

No no Gaz , ' building ' outside SL is impossible , you aren't allowed to put together a squad of players into a team and work with them to improve them individually and as a team , oh no no no

[Krytensmate]

I hope your right and we do ya lol.

Don't get carried away though , lol

[thundergaz]

No no Gaz , ' building ' outside SL is impossible , you aren't allowed to put together a squad of players into a team and work with them to improve them individually and as a team , oh no no no

Lol I think finishing in the top 4 will help us be full time next season. Well here's hoping too lol.

[scotchy]

2006 - W1 3v6, 4v5 losers elimated,- W2 1 v 2 winner to GF, winners of W1 , W3 loser game 1 v winner game 2, W4 GF ie finish 1 or 2 and win one game to get to GF and 72k plus Saints v Hull

So it was a larger series?

 

As I say, I don't think people will put more value in a 2 game comp than the preceding 30 rounds which is what is necessary for people to accept the gf winners as champions.

[scotchy]

I thought we couldn't compare to football? Or is it only when it suits?

They replaced it with P&R. Does that mean we should?

When have I said there is no comparison ever to be made with football?

 

P+R would be better than this nonsense. Still not the best option. P+R is a dying system

[scotchy]

No no Gaz , ' building ' outside SL is impossible , you aren't allowed to put together a squad of players into a team and work with them to improve them individually and as a team , oh no no no

who has done that successfully?

 

Is it the same amount of clubs who have 'grown organically through the leagues'? The same number who have 'built from the bottom'?

[Dave T]

So it was a larger series?

As I say, I don't think people will put more value in a 2 game comp than the preceding 30 rounds which is what is necessary for people to accept the gf winners as champions.

i dont agree this will be an issue at all. The playoffs have been severely weakened in the last few years, with people crying out for the number of teams to be reduced. People have still bought into the GF despite the playoffs somewhat struggling.

I dont think i have genuinely heard a complaint about the new playoff structure being an issue prior to yours, id be surprised if the GF took a hit. That is the game that gets you the trophy.

Fwiw, id prefer a greater advantage for the 1st placed team.

[The Parksider]

No no Gaz , ' building ' outside SL is impossible , you aren't allowed to put together a squad of players into a team and work with them to improve them individually and as a team , oh no no no

 

You are allowed to do this

 

who has done that successfully?

 

Is it the same amount of clubs who have 'grown organically through the leagues'? The same number who have 'built from the bottom'?

 

The best recent example I can find is Hull.K.R. 

 

Messrs. Hudgell and Crossland had the money and took HKR forward with the ambition of Superleague. They assembled the best players they could find outside the Superleague and worked towards Grand Final success.

 

They made the grand final in 2006 and beat Widnes to get promotion. The team they had built into a successful promotion side was:-

 

Cockayne, Rivett, Morton, Goddard, Ford, Morrell, Webster, Aizue, Fisher, Tangata Toa, Morrison, Smith, Gallagher.

 

They came second bottom in Superleague 2007 and finished their season against Fartown. By then the team was:-

 

Hardman, Lennon, Lovegrove, Dyer, Bower, Cooke, Webster, Vella, Fisher, Tandy,Chester, Netherton, Murell.

 

They had kept some key players like Scott Murrell, James Webster and Ben Fisher, but beyond that there was wholesale change for better players. Had they not done this they may well have slipped to a bottom finish and relegation even though Salford were particularly useless (again) that year.

 

Leigh clearly have players like Barlow and Brierley who were fancied by Leeds, and the excellent Ridyard who could also go on to try to keep the ship steady for Leigh in SL. 

 

However in 2008 HKR kicked on again using Hudgell and Crosslands spending power. They didn't make the eight, but compensation came in the form of a last match derby win over Hull in the heady days when they could sell it out.

 

Team: Briscoe, Fox, Welham, Jake Webster, Steel, Galea, Dobson, Netherton, Fisher, Mills, Vella, Gene, Cooke.

 

So the second year it was pretty much all change a second time. 

 

For me you can't assemble a competitive Superleague side outside Superleague. Superleague's spending power (and only a contractual stand saw Leigh keep Brierley and Barlow) will take all the best players many of whom they will sit on the bench or send out  on DR.

 

If Leigh have spending power at a lower level then like HKR did they can compete for the best players outside SL with Bradford, and they can pay them to play full time. This can get them through a season possibly unbeaten (HKR lost 2), but can it get them past a Superleague side, and can it then consequently keep them off the bottom of Superleague?

 

So I really can't buy this build an SL side outside SL. It can certainly be a great slogan to cover up a lack of future investment. I know nothing of the good Mr. Beaumont, he maybe has all his eggs in one basket, and nothing for tomorrow.

 

Mr. Hudgell had the eggs to change the team twice in two years and still they didn't make the eight. As I understand it despite the accident claims pouring in, today they are a selling club and bottom of Superleague.

 

Time for the "come down off the fence" challenge.......

 

£Million match Hull Kingston Rovers.v.Leigh 2015 who will win??

 

Who on here has the guts to predict it?

[GaryO]

 

Who on here has the guts to predict it?

Anyone any idea about the venue for the £M game, is it neutral, or at the 4th placed teams home, or at the highest ranking team at the on set of the Super 8 league system - 9th place SL being the highest 4th placed CC team being the lowest, someone pray tell.

[sweaty craiq]

Leigh v HKR would see Leigh win, HKR v Leigh the other way. 4v5 is just that, 4 are at home

[scotchy]

i dont agree this will be an issue at all. The playoffs have been severely weakened in the last few years, with people crying out for the number of teams to be reduced. People have still bought into the GF despite the playoffs somewhat struggling.

I dont think i have genuinely heard a complaint about the new playoff structure being an issue prior to yours, id be surprised if the GF took a hit. That is the game that gets you the trophy.

Fwiw, id prefer a greater advantage for the 1st placed team.

less teams, not less games. The problem with the play offs was less the number of teams that qualified and more their quality.

This season we have a possibility that Wigan finish top having beaten Leeds 4 times in the league only to have to play them again as leeds finish 4th. I really don't see this new system as one which can function with its legitimate champions being crowned through these play offs.

[scotchy]

You are allowed to do this

The best recent example I can find is Hull.K.R.

Messrs. Hudgell and Crossland had the money and took HKR forward with the ambition of Superleague. They assembled the best players they could find outside the Superleague and worked towards Grand Final success.

They made the grand final in 2006 and beat Widnes to get promotion. The team they had built into a successful promotion side was:-

Cockayne, Rivett, Morton, Goddard, Ford, Morrell, Webster, Aizue, Fisher, Tangata Toa, Morrison, Smith, Gallagher.

They came second bottom in Superleague 2007 and finished their season against Fartown. By then the team was:-

Hardman, Lennon, Lovegrove, Dyer, Bower, Cooke, Webster, Vella, Fisher, Tandy,Chester, Netherton, Murell.

They had kept some key players like Scott Murrell, James Webster and Ben Fisher, but beyond that there was wholesale change for better players. Had they not done this they may well have slipped to a bottom finish and relegation even though Salford were particularly useless (again) that year.

Leigh clearly have players like Barlow and Brierley who were fancied by Leeds, and the excellent Ridyard who could also go on to try to keep the ship steady for Leigh in SL.

However in 2008 HKR kicked on again using Hudgell and Crosslands spending power. They didn't make the eight, but compensation came in the form of a last match derby win over Hull in the heady days when they could sell it out.

Team: Briscoe, Fox, Welham, Jake Webster, Steel, Galea, Dobson, Netherton, Fisher, Mills, Vella, Gene, Cooke.

So the second year it was pretty much all change a second time.

For me you can't assemble a competitive Superleague side outside Superleague. Superleague's spending power (and only a contractual stand saw Leigh keep Brierley and Barlow) will take all the best players many of whom they will sit on the bench or send out on DR.

If Leigh have spending power at a lower level then like HKR did they can compete for the best players outside SL with Bradford, and they can pay them to play full time. This can get them through a season possibly unbeaten (HKR lost 2), but can it get them past a Superleague side, and can it then consequently keep them off the bottom of Superleague?

So I really can't buy this build an SL side outside SL. It can certainly be a great slogan to cover up a lack of future investment. I know nothing of the good Mr. Beaumont, he maybe has all his eggs in one basket, and nothing for tomorrow.

Mr. Hudgell had the eggs to change the team twice in two years and still they didn't make the eight. As I understand it despite the accident claims pouring in, today they are a selling club and bottom of Superleague.

Time for the "come down off the fence" challenge.......

£Million match Hull Kingston Rovers.v.Leigh 2015 who will win??

Who on here has the guts to predict it?

So HKR didn't do it did they. They didn't build a squad in the lower leagues and survive with them in SL they basically changed the whole team for overseas journeymen

Has any side done what he is suggesting? To borrow a phrase, it is complete fantasy to think that Leigh have a squad full of SL talent, complete pie in the sky to pretend that squad would survive in SL.

[Bulliac]

i just dont get this salary cap nonsense , so no club on less salary cap , or less money spent has ever beaten a team on a higher one ? , somebody had better tell those bradford city players that they didnt actually beat Chelsea , it was all a dream

 

With regards the contracts at Leigh most of the players are on 2/3/4 year full time contracts , be that Championship or SL

It's more than rare in rugby. Cup upsets are like rocking horse doo doo.

 

Soccer is quite different - not least in the fact that you have to hit a relatively small target to score and defenders can be packed into that area, whilst in rugby you have the whole line to score in and generally the best side wins.

 

Don't get me wrong, Bradford City did very well to beat Chelsea [even the somewhat diminished side they put out that day] and deserved to do so, but it doesn't translate into RL, nor does the 'underdog effect' since, in our play-off games, the SL sides will be treating the game as their 'cup final' every bit as much as we will, in fact even more so as they have far more to lose.

 

Like I said, I hope I'm wrong but logic is telling me otherwise.

[Krytensmate]

It's more than rare in rugby. Cup upsets are like rocking horse doo doo.

 

Soccer is quite different - not least in the fact that you have to hit a relatively small target to score and defenders can be packed into that area, whilst in rugby you have the whole line to score in and generally the best side wins.

 

Don't get me wrong, Bradford City did very well to beat Chelsea [even the somewhat diminished side they put out that day] and deserved to do so, but it doesn't translate into RL, nor does the 'underdog effect' since, in our play-off games, the SL sides will be treating the game as their 'cup final' every bit as much as we will, in fact even more so as they have far more to lose.

 

Like I said, I hope I'm wrong but logic is telling me otherwise.

Yes I like everybody else who follows sport is aware that there are less ' shocks ' in RL , but that is not where I am going with this , some posters have this strange idea that any and every player not currently in SL isnt good enough to play in SL , or that money is the only deciding point to a players ability , it isnt

 

Either way I am not predicting the future unlike some others on here , time will tell

[scotchy]

Yes I like everybody else who follows sport is aware that there are less ' shocks ' in RL , but that is not where I am going with this , some posters have this strange idea that any and every player not currently in SL isnt good enough to play in SL , or that money is the only deciding point to a players ability , it isnt

Either way I am not predicting the future unlike some others on here , time will tell

your argument being true, why pat players at all then? And why have a salary cap at all?

[Wellsy4HullFC]

your argument being true, why pat players at all then? And why have a salary cap at all?

I thought you didn't like strawmen arguments?...

[Krytensmate]

 

 

Cockayne, Rivett, Morton, Goddard, Ford, Morrell, Webster, Aizue, Fisher, Tangata Toa, Morrison, Smith, Gallagher.

 

They came second bottom in Superleague 2007 and finished their season against Fartown. By then the team was:-

 

Hardman, Lennon, Lovegrove, Dyer, Bower, Cooke, Webster, Vella, Fisher, Tandy,Chester, Netherton, Murell.

 

They had kept some key players like Scott Murrell, James Webster and Ben Fisher, but beyond that there was wholesale change for better players. Had they not done this they may well have slipped to a bottom finish and relegation even though Salford were particularly useless (again) that year.

 

 

Not quite how you put it , of that 2006 team that won the GF [ I cannot find the subs so will just stick to the 13 stated ] all bar Leroy Rivett who left the club played a total of 193 match ' places ' out of a total of 476 , 10 out of the 13 playing double figure numbers

 

You need to check your ' stats ' a bit better parky , I'me sure there are several others within the 2006 squad that remained at Rovers and played games in 2007 as well , Ime sure a rovers fan out there could support that statement

 

The other list of players brought in totalled 174 match ' places ' out of a total of 476