Hull FC under 23s

[westhuller]

So who will the other 9 be?

My guess is - Wigan, Leeds, Saints, Wire, Huddersfield, Castleford, Salford (if in SL), HKR, Wakefield.

With Hull FC that a 10 club league. Catalans probably can't and Widnes have said they won't join.

Could be a good reserve league.

Apparently Leigh are one of the sides Ted.

[scotchy]

So who will the other 9 be?

My guess is - Wigan, Leeds, Saints, Wire, Huddersfield, Castleford, Salford (if in SL), HKR, Wakefield.

With Hull FC that a 10 club league. Catalans probably can't and Widnes have said they won't join.

Could be a good reserve league.

Leeds don't want it. Wakefield can barely afford a 1st team. They really don't need to worry about a 2nd one

[Saint Toppy]

Leeds don't want it.

Purely because they use Hunslet as their reserve team.

 

When the U23's starts producing players better able to make the transition into the 1st team, and the RFL abandons the stupid DR system Leeds will soon come crawling and demanding they have an U23's team in the competition.

[scotchy]

Purely because they use Hunslet as their reserve team.

When the U23's starts producing players better able to make the transition into the 1st team, and the RFL abandons the stupid DR system Leeds will soon come crawling and demanding they have an U23's team in the competition.

purely because the u23's didn't work and they have found a better way.

Though yes. I'm sure if the rfl stopped leeds using their superior system they would have no choice other than to use this expensive, lazy, talent hoarding inferior one.

[zorquif]

 

A player doesnt 'owe' saints for developing him. If it wasnt for his hardwork and his talent Saints would have no qualms whatsoever in saying goodbye to that player.  

 

Maybe then the player doesn't want to have to leave a club like Saints to play in the championship - and Saints want to reward him with another couple of years to get himself into proper shape to play SL?

[scotchy]

Maybe then the player doesn't want to have to leave a club like Saints to play in the championship - and Saints want to reward him with another couple of years to get himself into proper shape to play SL?

and they can do so. They have always been able to do so.

[zorquif]

But surely playing games is more likely to do that than languishing in a training squad?

[scotchy]

But surely playing games is more likely to do that than languishing in a training squad?

first team games yes. Reserve games, as we saw. Did not.

[zorquif]

I assume you are deliberately missing the point there.

[bobbruce]

I think the answer is a combination of the two ideas on this thread. The old reserve system didn't work because there wasn't the money in it to compete with championship clubs for players. The DR system is struggling because some of the great clubs of the game see it as them becoming feeder clubs. So bring back reserves put the league below C1 and then allow PandR into the pro structure.

[Saint Toppy]

purely because the u23's didn't work and they have found a better way.

Though yes. I'm sure if the rfl stopped leeds using their superior system they would have no choice other than to use this expensive, lazy, talent hoarding inferior one.

So the 9-10 clubs that want this are all wrong, The RFL have backed the new set-up's, so I guess they're wrong as well are they ?

 

The only person really objecting to this is Hetherington and is blindingly obvious it has nothing to do with the quality of a reserve grade, its about him protecting his own selfish interests. If the DR system goes then so does his RFL subsidised reserve team called Hunslet. 

[terrywebbisgod]

A reserve team competition is the correct way to go.Hetherington has this one wrong.

[scotchy]

So the 9-10 clubs that want this are all wrong, The RFL have backed the new set-up's, so I guess they're wrong as well are they ?

The only person really objecting to this is Hetherington and is blindingly obvious it has nothing to do with the quality of a reserve grade, its about him protecting his own selfish interests. If the DR system goes then so does his RFL subsidised reserve team called Hunslet.

9-10 out of 24. So less than half.

I'm sure the 23 year olds of St Helens will learn loads from their games against players not good enough for leigh

Meanwhile leeds youngsters will be playing against Leigh or at worst league 1 sides.

I know who will be getting the sterner test there.

[Saint Toppy]

9-10 out of 24. So less than half.

I'm sure the 23 year olds of St Helens will learn loads from their games against players not good enough for leigh

Meanwhile leeds youngsters will be playing against Leigh or at worst league 1 sides.

I know who will be getting the sterner test there.

Aside from Leeds (and their minions at Hunslet of course) the other clubs aren't against the concept, they're just not currently in a position to be a part of it. 

 

When you eventually remove your head from Hetherington's backside you'll maybe see that all the other clubs are trying to improve the standard of players across the game and are willing to invest their own money to do it. Not for the first time its Hetherington being the selfish, arrongant one doing only whats best for Leeds and to hell with everyone else.

[scotchy]

It's good of you to let us know the inner thoughts of all chairmen.

Yeah. Those nice altruistic Saint Helens are looking to get their claws in to more players and leave them at a lower level for longer for the good for the good of everyone and definitely not for themselves. No sir.

[DoubleD]

Exactly, hoarding players till they're 24 and playing them in a lessor competition will do nothing for the players and will have a knock on effect of super league clubs having less residual income to pay and attract top players and will weaken the lower leagues, undermining the new structure and making the gulf larger as there will be less talent filtering down. In all likelihood, the reserve players who don't make it professionally at 24 will be more likely lost to the game having given up their dream, rather than thinking they could work their way through the system at a lower level to get back there like Chris Hill

[Saint Toppy]

Exactly, hoarding players till they're 24 and playing them in a lessor competition will do nothing for the players and will have a knock on effect of super league clubs having less residual income to pay and attract top players and will weaken the lower leagues, undermining the new structure and making the gulf larger as there will be less talent filtering down. In all likelihood, the reserve players who don't make it professionally at 24 will be more likely lost to the game having given up their dream, rather than thinking they could work their way through the system at a lower level to get back there like Chris Hill

Your talking like these young players are tied to the SL clubs, but they're not. At 19 they have the option of signing on to play reserve rugby or to leave and try their luck with a championship club. If they do sign on its unlikely they will be signing 5 year contracts that keep them there until they're 24, so again they will be free to leave and go to the championship (or be let go by the club) at various points.

 

Its not hoarding players, its giving them an opportunity to stay with the club of their choice for up to an extra 5 years to prove they can make it to 1st team standard. Currently they dont have that choice at all and it just discriminates against those unfortunate enough to have not developed sufficiently by the time they reach 19.

[scotchy]

Exactly, hoarding players till they're 24 and playing them in a lessor competition will do nothing for the players and will have a knock on effect of super league clubs having less residual income to pay and attract top players and will weaken the lower leagues, undermining the new structure and making the gulf larger as there will be less talent filtering down. In all likelihood, the reserve players who don't make it professionally at 24 will be more likely lost to the game having given up their dream, rather than thinking they could work their way through the system at a lower level to get back there like Chris Hill

It's hilarious. Eammon McManus railed against any raise in the cap or marquee allowance and now wants to set up a whole new league so he can pay another inferior team just so they can keep first dibs on them. Yet we are supposed to pretend they are doing this for the good of the player.

If saints are doing this for the good of the player. Let the player keep his registration so he can walk away for first team rugby at any point without a fee.

[Spidey]

If Leeds/Hunslet is the model. Where/who are the Hunslets in waiting for the rest of Super League? Reserves seems to be the only option to mirror what Leeds have set up for their players not getting first team rugby. I've asked before which clubs are willing to be "taken over" and nobody has come up with 1 club let alone 11

[scotchy]

If Leeds/Hunslet is the model. Where/who are the Hunslets in waiting for the rest of Super League? Reserves seems to be the only option to mirror what Leeds have set up for their players not getting first team rugby. I've asked before which clubs are willing to be "taken over" and nobody has come up with 1 club let alone 11

Because It's A Flawed premise leeds haven't taken over Hunslet despite however helpful framing it that way would be.

We have 11 SL clubs and 26 who aren't going to SL. Take your pick.

[Spidey]

Because It's A Flawed premise leeds haven't taken over Hunslet despite however helpful framing it that way would be.

We have 11 SL clubs and 26 who aren't going to SL. Take your pick.

They dictate team selection. They share coaching staff. Leeds are certainly in charge, if Hunslet lads suddenly become available. Would they be picked of the Leeds ones? Very doubtful

So I'll ask again which clubs would be happy to go into the same sort of arrangement with the SL pulling all the strings.

The only other similar setup was Wire/Swinton. Swinton binned them off and went independent

[scotchy]

They dictate team selection. They share coaching staff. Leeds are certainly in charge, if Hunslet lads suddenly become available. Would they be picked of the Leeds ones? Very doubtful

So I'll ask again which clubs would be happy to go into the same sort of arrangement with the SL pulling all the strings.

The only other similar setup was Wire/Swinton. Swinton binned them off and went independent

they don't dictate team selection. Such a thing would be against the rules. They share some coaching staff.

Hunslet pick the best player for them. If they happen to be leeds players they are picked. If they are Hunslet ones they are picked.

Like most things in RL when it isn't easy and is a long term solution. Some clubs make it work, some throw in the towel.

[scotchy]

They dictate team selection. They share coaching staff. Leeds are certainly in charge, if Hunslet lads suddenly become available. Would they be picked of the Leeds ones? Very doubtful

So I'll ask again which clubs would be happy to go into the same sort of arrangement with the SL pulling all the strings.

The only other similar setup was Wire/Swinton. Swinton binned them off and went independent

they don't dictate team selection. Such a thing would be against the rules. They share some coaching staff.

Hunslet pick the best player for them. If they happen to be leeds players they are picked. If they are Hunslet ones they are picked.

Like most things in RL when it isn't easy and is a long term solution. Some clubs make it work, some throw in the towel.

[Spidey]

So Head Coach Barry Eaton (Assistant Coach at Leeds) would go against his Boss Brian McDermott if he suggested Leeds players to be selected for Hunslet as part of Leeds player development requirements? Come on..

[scotchy]

So Head Coach Barry Eaton (Assistant Coach at Leeds) would go against his Boss Brian McDermott if he suggested Leeds players to be selected for Hunslet as part of Leeds player development requirements? Come on..

i doubt either Barry Eaton, nor Brian McDermott would value that single game as such an integral part of a players development. On a long term basis, i doubt any player with the potential to play for Leeds, and physical readiness to demand games, wouldnt be good enough to get in hunslets squad.