Rugby History Thread

[Oxford]

Interesting article from the Independent in 1996 which points to my references that broken time was not the big issue.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/lessons-that-have-not-been-learnt-as-history-repeats-itself-1305366.html

Now padge I have to ask, after following the link, are you trying to get this thread moved to CCF? I know it's our history, I know Hadfield's a league journalist, I know it's a league thread,question post, but that doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't have the criteria for being walked! Like Johnny Cash you "Walk the Line"

[shaun mc]

Interesting article from the Independent in 1996 which points to my references that broken time was not the big issue.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/lessons-that-have-not-been-learnt-as-history-repeats-itself-1305366.html

Broken time wasn't the only issue, but it was one of 3 main issues. The Northern Union were even more draconian over broken time from 1895 onwards than they were pre-1895

The main issue was the threat from professional football. They had been paying their players for 10 years, and the main football clubs were based in the north in the NU heartlands as well as the Midlands and North East. Preston NE went from being a rugby club to one of the top football clubs and were one of the main ones paying players. I'd speculate that if 1895 hadn't happened for another 5 years there may not have been many clubs around rugby to then breakaway from the RFU.

The other issue was control of the game - between the largest, most successful, organised and attended clubs in the north versus the old farts committee running the sport in the south. The north wanted more control over its own destiny to be able to organise themselves into Leagues for example

[Padge]

Now padge I have to ask, after following the link, are you trying to get this thread moved to CCF? I know it's our history, I know Hadfield's a league journalist, I know it's a league thread,question post, but that doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't have the criteria for being walked! Like Johnny Cash you "Walk the Line"

 

Se my OP

 

The history of the game is cross code it can't be avoided, it will only get sent to the pit of hell if it becomes a slanging match between willy waving unionistas and leaguites.

 

That article merely shows that a respected journalist 20 years ago was saying what I am saying now and what Trevor Delaney was saying in 1984 and what Mike Latham and Tom Mather were saying in 1993. My own research backs up what these people were saying. The issue was not broken time and the Northern Union was formed 8 months before the now 'official birthday'

[Oxford]

Se my OP

 

The history of the game is cross code it can't be avoided, it will only get sent to the pit of hell if it becomes a slanging match between willy waving unionistas and leaguites.

 

That article merely shows that a respected journalist 20 years ago was saying what I am saying now and what Trevor Delaney was saying in 1984 and what Mike Latham and Tom Mather were saying in 1993. My own research backs up what these people were saying. The issue was not broken time and the Northern Union was formed 8 months before the now 'official birthday'

Very interesting and thank you for your explanation of both these issues. Do you think the willy wavers join in on purpose to make that happen?

 

Of course the history of the game is cross code that's why I was concerned it might disappear. Maybe TGG should have two birthdays like the Queen?

[Padge]

Broken time wasn't the only issue, but it was one of 3 main issues. The Northern Union were even more draconian over broken time from 1895 onwards than they were pre-1895

The main issue was the threat from professional football. They had been paying their players for 10 years, and the main football clubs were based in the north in the NU heartlands as well as the Midlands and North East. Preston NE went from being a rugby club to one of the top football clubs and were one of the main ones paying players. I'd speculate that if 1895 hadn't happened for another 5 years there may not have been many clubs around rugby to then breakaway from the RFU.

The other issue was control of the game - between the largest, most successful, organised and attended clubs in the north versus the old farts committee running the sport in the south. The north wanted more control over its own destiny to be able to organise themselves into Leagues for example

 

Northern newspapers reported little about Northern clubs grumbling about broken time but did report a lot about clubs wanting control of fixtures. Southern press reported a lot about broken time but nothing at all about fixture control.

 

The Lancashire clubs formed the Lancashire RFU to ensure they had a strong body to stand up to the onslaught of soccer in the area, they did amazingly well.

 

In Yorkshire they had little pressure from soccer and the county team, which was the path to international status for players, was run by a cabal of 5 clubs, eventually following a lot of pressure from the other Yorkshire clubs the Yorkshire RFU was formed to control the game in the county.

 

Lancashire and Yorkshire RFU's were created for different reasons in different circumstances, in Yorkshire the senior clubs had a resentment at being made to tow the line by smaller RFU affiliated clubs and in Lancashire the senior clubs saw that embracing the junior clubs as a protection against the soccer onslaught.

 

Both Lancashire and Yorkshire were to finish up with large amounts of friction as the senior clubs tried to exert authority over the game in their region.

[craig hamilton]

Why Aspatria Hornets went to NU:

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/aspatriahornetsrlfc/news/rugbys-great-split-all-is-revealed-1436462.html

[craig hamilton]

Two match reports from the era:

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/aspatriahornetsrlfc/news/aspatria-v-altrincham-1436468.html

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/aspatriahornetsrlfc/news/wakefield-trinity-match-report-9th-march-1901-1437593.html

[yanto]

Before the career of Stanley Gene? That's not a thing.

 

Though I seem to remember seeing PNG take on a Humberside select amateur side at the Boulevard around about the time you say. An old team mate of mine was on the first BARLA tour to PNG which will have been around 1979/80 time. 

Alan Varty from Broughton Red Rose came back from the 1978 PNG BARLA tour as BARLA player of the season.

Leigh Miners website has a piece on it ..http://www.leighminersrangers.net/openage/remember-when-4/

[Ullman]

Alan Varty from Broughton Red Rose came back from the 1978 PNG BARLA tour as BARLA player of the season.

Leigh Miners website has a piece on it ..http://www.leighminersrangers.net/openage/remember-when-4/

Great stuff, there are some very familiar names in the bit about the BARLA tour. 

 

Thanks for posting, mate. Brought back many memories.

[Futtocks]

A short video from the BBC on Wally Lewis at Wakefield: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/35803266

[Hopping Mad]

Excellent 25-minute, black & white Border TV documentary from the late 1970s about Workington Town. Narrated by Eric Robson, it features interviews with Alan Banks, Jim Brough, Andy Key, Sol Roper, Ike Southward and Arnold 'Boxer' Walker. Some great dressing room stuff before a First Division game at Derwent Park against Warrington. Instantly recognisable Town players and officials include David Beck, Harry Beverley, Paul Charlton, George Graham, Ian Hartley, Iain McCorquodale, Tom Mitchell, Bill Pattinson and Bill Smith.

 

Edited March 15, 2016 by Hopping Mad

[Futtocks]

Not heard of this before, and I'm looking forward to watching it. Thanks!  

[yanto]

Excellent 25-minute, black & white Border TV documentary from the late 1970s about Workington Town. Narrated by Eric Robson, it features interviews with Alan Banks, Jim Brough, Andy Key, Sol Roper, Ike Southward and Arnold 'Boxer' Walker. Some great dressing room stuff before a First Division game at Derwent Park against Warrington. Instantly recognisable Town players and officials include David Beck, Harry Beverley, Paul Charlton, George Graham, Ian Hartley, Iain McCorquodale, Tom Mitchell, Bill Pattinson and Bill Smith.

 

Alan Rowley at 10 John Dobie 13 and who is the number 3 ??   

[Hopping Mad]

Can't help you there, yanto, I'm afraid.

 

This late 1960s black & white documentary - Rugby League: The Game That Got Away - may be common knowledge amongst posters, but I'd never seen it before stumbling across it on the internet. The first half features Wigan versus Castleford match action at Central Park, ex-Radio 4 presenter Brian Redhead describing rugby league as an "intellectual game" and interviews with Keith Macklin, Cliff Morgan, Eddie Waring and David Watkins. The second half lifts the lid on life at Featherstone Rovers, when Laurie Gant was coach.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2016 by Hopping Mad

[Futtocks]

That was also shown on BBC4 a couple of years ago. A very good documentary.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Futtocks

[shaun mc]

Alan Rowley at 10 John Dobie 13 and who is the number 3 ??   

Wonder who is no. 3 Yanto?

I'd forgotten about Paul Charltons poodle perm.....  

[Victoria Dawson]

I have copied this over from the Museum thread so it doesn't derail the discussion by getting into a discussion of 'the split'.

If you've not read 'Rugby's Great Split' then this should help: http://www.tony-collins.org/rugbyreloaded/2013/6/13/broken-time-not-an-issue-in-the-1895-split

[Padge]

If you've not read 'Rugby's Great Split' then this should help: http://www.tony-collins.org/rugbyreloaded/2013/6/13/broken-time-not-an-issue-in-the-1895-split

 

Read it and and I have discussed my views with the prof.

 

The decision was not made in Huddersfield.

[Futtocks]

This photo just popped up on my Twitter timeline. The USA All Stars v France, on Christmas Day, 1953.

 

[Oxford]

This photo just popped up on my Twitter timeline. The USA All Stars v France, on Christmas Day, 1953.

 

Christmas day where, Futtocks? Great picture made it part of my gallery!

[longboard]

A bit of rugby league history linked to the Somme being marked this Sunday.

 

http://www.giantsrl.com/news/article/5503/team-of-all-talents-member?platform=hootsuite

[Padge]

A bit of rugby league history linked to the Somme being marked this Sunday.

 

http://www.giantsrl.com/news/article/5503/team-of-all-talents-member?platform=hootsuite

 

Thanks for that, interesting stuff.

[longboard]

Thanks for that, interesting stuff.

 

It reads like Fred Longstaff had a pretty horrendous death.

Poor man.

[longboard]

A good story about Fred Longstaff at the bottom of this:-

 

http://www.huddersfieldrlheritage.co.uk/Archive/Written/Players/Fred_Longstaff.html

[Padge]

It reads like Fred Longstaff had a pretty horrendous death.

Poor man.

 

I nearly added on the end of my reply gruesome.