LEIGH 24 LEEDS 7

[fieldofclothofgold]

The first division was the Elite pre Superleague.

 

Not sure of your point?

I mean even then there was more chance of more than just four teams winning the trophies and I know all about Wigans dominance too .With this thread I am reminded of Peter Fox's thoughts when the Super League came about

[The Parksider]

I mean even then there was more chance of more than just four teams winning the trophies and I know all about Wigans dominance too .With this thread I am reminded of Peter Fox's thoughts when the Super League came about

 

Wigan's dominance indeed good sir.........

[Trojan]

Wigan's dominance indeed good sir.........

But that dominance came at a price that nearly finished them.  They were on the point of bankruptcy. Hence the games with Bath, hiring out Henry Paul, Connolly, and Robinson, hence the challenge games with Bath, and the selling of Tuigamala and Quinnell back to Union. Hence the sale of Central Park.  SOMETHING had to be done, and Super League was the god given answer.  Never mind the rest as long as Wigan are ok.

[JohnM]

Not just Wigan, the whole game would have gone down the pan. 

 

We'd have ended up as an amatuer  9 semi-pro at best ) and winter game played in rubbish stadiums in front of small and declining crowds.

 

No World Cup, no International's - except may be France

 

Even the potential for Wigan, Saints and Leeds to switch codes.

[Trojan]

Not just Wigan, the whole game would have gone down the pan. 

 

We'd have ended up as an amatuer  9 semi-pro at best ) and winter game played in rubbish stadiums in front of small and declining crowds.

 

No World Cup, no International's - except may be France

 

Even the potential for Wigan, Saints and Leeds to switch codes.

No it wouldn't.  Games don't "go down the pan." Maybe there'd have been trouble, maybe not.  The game would have continued.  It would have revived.   Everyone makes this excuse, but there was no evidence at the time that it was so, apart from Wigan's obvious distress.  But no one really knows what the situation was.  We know what Maurice said it was but then if Maurice told me that the M1 led to London I'd doubt it.

[JohnM]

yes it would. it was very definitely heading that way. nor would it have revived. It was on a downward spiral. its no excuse. the problem was that Lindsey was at the time more or less the only visionary, the only power broker, in a game notably lacking in such people.Well respected in enterprising Australia, too. Now at least there are four or more strong and viable clubs.

[MikeFletchersBarmyArmy]

Things to do on a winters Sunday "these days"

Diy

Cinema

Travel (since families now have cars unlike days of yore)

Games consoles

Streaming media

Tourist events of any kind - ice rinks, Xmas fair etc

Sales of any kind

Foreign holidays

The world is a fundamentally different place now than to the 60s, even to the 80s - the time of year the season runs affects only the quality of the games played and not the spectator base

And Amy consideration to revert to winter rugby is about as sensible as returning to lineouts and 15 players

Then add all the possibilities in the Summer.

Hardly missed a game in the winter days, now miss a few home games & more away games.

As for the pitches, the pitches are best to be played on September & October, but the season comes to an end & the majority of teams don't play.

Then in winter maybe the pitches are a bit more bogier, but that can make games a lot closer & competive.

I am sure it's better to watch a closer game than a 60-0 rout!

The amateur game isn't doing that fantastic in summer compared to the winter too.

[Trojan]

yes it would. it was very definitely heading that way. nor would it have revived. It was on a downward spiral. its no excuse. the problem was that Lindsey was at the time more or less the only visionary, the only power broker, in a game notably lacking in such people.Well respected in enterprising Australia, too. Now at least there are four or more strong and viable clubs.

Another unsupported assertion John, you're good at those.  Even if all the pro clubs had disappeared the amateur game would still have been there and the game would have revived.  It wouldn't have been easy. but it would have happened.  Instead we get the players playing for clubs when they haven't got work permits and all the other stuff that went on.  The touring team called back from the tour.  The centenary celebrations bungled.  If the game was on its ###### in 1995 it was down to one man and one man alone, and we all know who that man is.

[The Parksider]

Another unsupported assertion John, you're good at those. 

 

Even if all the pro clubs had disappeared the amateur game would still have been there and the game would have revived.  It wouldn't have been easy. but it would have happened.  

 

Meet an "unsupported assertion" with a bigger and more outrageous one why don't you?

[Trojan]

Meet an "unsupported assertion" with a bigger and more outrageous one why don't you?

Well not really.  All the lads playing amateur RL would have continued to do so. There's still have been a base. The game would still be there.  What the pros would have done is anyone's guess.  It would have been a mess.  BUt TBH I reckon the assertion is just that.  There is absolutely no evidence to support it.  Sure the chairman of the RL clubs went for the deal, they saw a big cheque for £75m, they saw the bait but didn't see the hook.  They may have been short of money and saw this as salvation.  How many of them are not short of money today?  Most of the Sky cash was wasted on inflated players salaries. IMO all the Sky bid did was act as a catalyst for Union to go honest.

[JohnM]

your five unsupported claims against my one prediction.

with no pro game, there would be in effect no RFL, ignored by Aus and NZ etc, no expansion, to TV, in the 20 years since 1995, more and more amateurs would have chosen union, in my view.

And all this because of some irrational anti- Murphy rant.

[sweaty craiq]

There would have been be a pro/semi pro game though John don't get dragged down

[Exiled Wiganer]

There is one myth which is worth answering at this point. Wigan would not have gone bust. We would have been fine. We had a wealthy man ready to buy the club. We always paid every debt.

Have only read the last couple of pages, so this may not be relevant, but I think the game domestically and internationally is unrecognizably better now than it was when I started watching it in the late 70s/early 80s.

In terms of unpredictability, for all the "only 4 teams can win" criticism, compared to most sports that would be praise indeed, plus of course those 4 teams have changed and will continue to change. Each of Bradford, Saints and Leeds have had periods where their dominance looked like it could last forever, but the baton has been passed on. it would not take a seismic shift for Catalans, FC, Wire and the Giants to be the group of 4 in 10 years time. The only club that seems immune to the doldrums at any time is Saints, but we live in hope...

If we decided to go back to winter, I think we could make a good go of it, we could get tours back, and glamour players potentially making cameos (though I doubt it would be like the 80s all over again). I like the experience of being outdoors watching a game mid winter, but we still get that given that we start at the start of Feb. Happy either way.

[fieldofclothofgold]

There is one myth which is worth answering at this point. Wigan would not have gone bust. We would have been fine. We had a wealthy man ready to buy the club. We always paid every debt.Have only read the last couple of pages, so this may not be relevant, but I think the game domestically and internationally is unrecognizably better now than it was when I started watching it in the late 70s/early 80s.In terms of unpredictability, for all the "only 4 teams can win" criticism, compared to most sports that would be praise indeed, plus of course those 4 teams have changed and will continue to change. Each of Bradford, Saints and Leeds have had periods where their dominance looked like it could last forever, but the baton has been passed on. it would not take a seismic shift for Catalans, FC, Wire and the Giants to be the group of 4 in 10 years time. The only club that seems immune to the doldrums at any time is Saints, but we live in hope...If we decided to go back to winter, I think we could make a good go of it, we could get tours back, and glamour players potentially making cameos (though I doubt it would be like the 80s all over again). I like the experience of being outdoors watching a game mid winter, but we still get that given that we start at the start of Feb. Happy either way.

well Leeds were bust in all but name £5m debt ,ready to move out like paupers down to Elland Road then owned by Caspian.Its a good job those two natives of Castleford had the vision to step in

[Trojan]

your five unsupported claims against my one prediction.

with no pro game, there would be in effect no RFL, ignored by Aus and NZ etc, no expansion, to TV, in the 20 years since 1995, more and more amateurs would have chosen union, in my view.

And all this because of some irrational anti- Murphy rant.

Excuse me it wasn't me who diverted this thread off topic it was Parky

[Trojan]

There is one myth which is worth answering at this point. Wigan would not have gone bust. We would have been fine. We had a wealthy man ready to buy the club. We always paid every debt.

Have only read the last couple of pages, so this may not be relevant, but I think the game domestically and internationally is unrecognizably better now than it was when I started watching it in the late 70s/early 80s.

In terms of unpredictability, for all the "only 4 teams can win" criticism, compared to most sports that would be praise indeed, plus of course those 4 teams have changed and will continue to change. Each of Bradford, Saints and Leeds have had periods where their dominance looked like it could last forever, but the baton has been passed on. it would not take a seismic shift for Catalans, FC, Wire and the Giants to be the group of 4 in 10 years time. The only club that seems immune to the doldrums at any time is Saints, but we live in hope...

If we decided to go back to winter, I think we could make a good go of it, we could get tours back, and glamour players potentially making cameos (though I doubt it would be like the 80s all over again). I like the experience of being outdoors watching a game mid winter, but we still get that given that we start at the start of Feb. Happy either way.

I don't think there's any way we would, or could go back to winter. Going back is seldom a good idea.  What I said (or what I meant) was that I don't think going to summer was a good idea.  There was no demand among the fans  And despite all that's been said against playing in winter, Union have expanded their inferior game out of all recognition playing in winter.

[fieldofclothofgold]

I don't think there's any way we would, or could go back to winter. Going back is seldom a good idea.  What I said (or what I meant) was that I don't think going to summer was a good idea.  There was no demand among the fans  And despite all that's been said against playing in winter, Union have expanded their inferior game out of all recognition playing in winter.

didnt Sky come along and say we will give you this. £££££ for television rights,but only if you play in Summer?

[Trojan]

didnt Sky come along and say we will give you this. £££££ for television rights,but only if you play in Summer?

No one knows what Sky really said except Maurice Lindsay.  All I know for certain is that I attend less games now than I did before summer rugby.  And I'd go as far as to say that I attend more games in the early part of the season when the weather's not really up to much, than I do in late spring and summer, for the reasons already stated.

[MikeFletchersBarmyArmy]

So is it agreed that those months that are played in un natural rugby months there is a dip in attendance?

The bigger attendances are those played in months when rugby has been played for over a hundred years.

[WakefieldCityLoyal]

So we all agree then that Neil Fox was a better player than Alex Murphy.

[Bartholemew Smythe]

So we all agree then that Neil Fox was a better player than Alex Murphy.

Murphy every day of the week.

[GaryO]

I've just watched the "highlights" on You Tube. What an abysmal game.  14 of Leigh's points came from penalties or drop goals. I've never been a Leeds fan but Leigh clearly came out with the intention of niggling Leeds into conceding penalties, and it worked, typical Murphy tactics.

Sorry to all you thread assisins, but back to OP.

It was a great game, I am a Leigh fan, in '71, I was 18 years old, on my first trip to both Wembley and Spending the Weekend in London having a great time, and winning the Challenge Cup was the icing on the cake.

Master tactician Murphy used what was at his disposal to win the game, we could say he out thought all the Leeds team and management.

Isn't perspective a wonderful debating point!

[JohnM]

Excuse me it wasn't me who diverted this thread off topic it was Parky

i didnt say you did, especially as it was you that originated it. Your closing statement was to query Alex Murhpy.. a legitimate point for discussion,

[Trojan]

i didnt say you did, especially as it was you that originated it. Your closing statement was to query Alex Murhpy.. a legitimate point for discussion,

Shall I ask you to withdraw the word "irrational" John?  Since you appear to favour withdrawal of posts.  I think I can be excused for objecting to being called "irrational" don't you?

[JohnM]

I merely reported your personally offensive post. You know, the one where you called me a coward and a traitor.