North Wales Crusaders seek new ownership

[The Daddy]

Hot on the heels of South Wales new owners, Welsh RL continues to reshape itself and now the Crusaders are looking for new ownership. They believe they can reach the Championship and the SL.

Let's hope this turns out well as North Wales has a great advantage which other expansion areas don't and that's being so close to the heartlands.

http://www.runningrugby.com/law-and-governance/crusaders-seek-new-owners/?utm_source=Running+Rugby+Main+List&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Gloucester+Takeover+Complete

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Think there's huge potential here. They showed there was interest during the SL years with some big crowds. They've managed to keep a decent following for that level also. Hopefully someone will see that and show a bit more patience and commitment than the original owner.

[DoubleD]

They need investment as they're struggling a bit. Would be good to see them develop stronger foundations and kick on

[Celt]

What would this "owner" actually end up owning?  The club seems to play at a rented football stadium, trains.... where? Has a bunch of part-time players.  

 

What is available for sale?  What can this "owner" buy with his money should anyone actually materialise?

[gogledd]

What would this "owner" actually end up owning?  The club seems to play at a rented football stadium, trains.... where? Has a bunch of part-time players.  

 

What is available for sale?  What can this "owner" buy with his money should anyone actually materialise?

If your genuinely interested why not contact the Commercial Manager at the club I'm sure she would answer any questions you have!

 

Your correct - we do play at the Glyndwr University Racecourse Stadium and pay a fee to play there. We do not own our own ground or have a club house; but we are not unique to be in that situation.

 

The team currently train in Salford - as part of our dual reg agreement with Salford Red Devils, bu also train at Deeside Leisure Centre which Wales Rugby League have as a centre of excellence. It has an excellent gymnasium and training facilities - again Crusaders pay to use these facilities.

 

Your question could be levelled at any rugby league club at this level "what would the owner get?" That's really up to the board of directors to answer but we are looking at people to invest in the future of rugby league including the League 1 team our U-16s and U18s and our wheelchair team.

 

There's lots of good things going on but it will need investment to take us to the next level.

[Celt]

Thanks for the answer gogledd - training facilities sound decent although a leisure centre, and you pay rent to use it.

This 'investment' that people talk about - what would be likely to generate a return? Selling it on for more to another subsequent owner?

I am in no way having a go at your reply. More wondering why Running Rugby's report generated positive feedback from others. I just can't see any asset at all here - it appears to be a bunch of part time players training in Manchester, playing at a rented non-league football stadium in Wales, with no ground, training facilities, offices, or fans (really) to call their own, yet people somehow think this is positive?

To me, it seems absolutely a million miles away from a sustainable professional club.

It doesn't look like an investment in any way shape or form. A plaything for someone with cash to burn maybe, but how this can be viewed as positive is beyond me.

The language used above: 'looks to reshape itself', 'huge potential', 'need investment', sounds like people think there it would be reasonable to put money in. I am just saying that to me it looks like an utter disaster of an organisation, and I do not have a clue why anyone would 'buy' it, as to me it looks like there is nothing to buy.

[The Parksider]

If your genuinely interested why not contact the Commercial Manager at the club I'm sure she would answer any questions you have!

 

Your question could be levelled at any rugby league club at this level "what would the owner get?" That's really up to the board of directors to answer but we are looking at people to invest in the future of rugby league including the League 1 team our U-16s and U18s and our wheelchair team.

 

There's lots of good things going on but it will need investment to take us to the next level.

 

"Investment" = the action or process of investing money for profit: 

 

This 'investment' that people talk about - what would be likely to generate a return? Selling it on for more to another subsequent owner?

 I just can't see any asset at all here - it appears to be a bunch of part time players training in Manchester, playing at a rented non-league football stadium in Wales, with no ground, training facilities, offices, or fans (really) to call their own, yet people somehow think this is positive?

To me, it seems absolutely a million miles away from a sustainable professional club.

It doesn't look like an investment in any way shape or form. A plaything for someone with cash to burn maybe.......

 

Playthings with cash to burn = Leigh, Crusaders, Fartown, Salford, London and.....

 

Oh what the heck.....

 

The whole darn lot of them........

 

Nobody is going anywhere without someone with free money to burn.....

 

Nobody "invests" in RL because by definition nobody makes a profit from it.

[The Parksider]

Think there's huge potential here. 

 

No there isn't. Crusaders made the top eight of SL on a 4,621 average crowd

That's why they went under.

 

There was "potential" to kick on if someone wanted to subsidise the club with no hope of any return from what?? £500,000 a year???

 

That is the sort of sum Hudgell admitted to annually putting into HKR with no hope of a return.

 

There is a huge financial millstone awaiting anyone who wishes to take over Crusaders 

[gogledd]

No there isn't. Crusaders made the top eight of SL on a 4,621 average crowd

That's why they went under.

 

There was "potential" to kick on if someone wanted to subsidise the club with no hope of any return from what?? £500,000 a year???

 

That is the sort of sum Hudgell admitted to annually putting into HKR with no hope of a return.

 

There is a huge financial millstone awaiting anyone who wishes to take over Crusaders 

North Wales Crusaders ARE NOT Crusaders RL. Crusaders RL folded in their second season not through lack of support from fans but because the owners had financial irregularites with both the football club (Wrexham AFC) and Crusaders RL. In the end they withdrew their bid for the Super League franchise. Crusaders RL made the top 8 the year brian Noble was in Charge and average attendances were far higher that year. Support dropped off the following year when Iestyn Harris was in charge and they ended up bottom.

 

CRusaders RL folded - North Wales Crusaders was formed because supporters ran a Save the Cru campaign, which eventually led to a new club being formed which entered Championship 1 in 2012. So its a different club altogether.

[gogledd]

Thanks for the answer gogledd - training facilities sound decent although a leisure centre, and you pay rent to use it.

This 'investment' that people talk about - what would be likely to generate a return? Selling it on for more to another subsequent owner?

I am in no way having a go at your reply. More wondering why Running Rugby's report generated positive feedback from others. I just can't see any asset at all here - it appears to be a bunch of part time players training in Manchester, playing at a rented non-league football stadium in Wales, with no ground, training facilities, offices, or fans (really) to call their own, yet people somehow think this is positive?

To me, it seems absolutely a million miles away from a sustainable professional club.

It doesn't look like an investment in any way shape or form. A plaything for someone with cash to burn maybe, but how this can be viewed as positive is beyond me.

The language used above: 'looks to reshape itself', 'huge potential', 'need investment', sounds like people think there it would be reasonable to put money in. I am just saying that to me it looks like an utter disaster of an organisation, and I do not have a clue why anyone would 'buy' it, as to me it looks like there is nothing to buy.

So i take it you wont be investing then!  If your looking for a financial gain then I don't think any Rugby League club could guarantee you that, even if they had their own premises.

[gogledd]

"Investment" = the action or process of investing money for profit: 

 

Depends on your perspective - I invest time to help run our wheelchair rugby league team. I dont get anything in return apart from knowing that by helping someone gets a chance to play a team sport they enjoy.

[deluded pom?]

CRusaders RL folded - North Wales Crusaders was formed because supporters ran a Save the Cru campaign, which eventually led to a new club being formed which entered Championship 1 in 2012. So its a different club altogether.

So that then beggars the question, whose is it to sell?

[deluded pom?]

 playing at a rented non-league football stadium in Wales, with no ground, training facilities, offices, or fans (really) to call their own, yet people somehow think this is positive?

Wrexham FC do not own the stadium any more than Hull City own the KC stadium.

[gogledd]

So that then beggars the question, whose is it to sell?

The current CEO who is stepping down from the board of directors can, I'm advised, sell his interest in the club. The other directors could also offer part of their interests for sale too.

[gogledd]

 it appears to be a bunch of part time players training in Manchester, playing at a rented non-league football stadium in Wales, with no ground, training facilities, offices, or fans (really) to call their own, yet people somehow think this is positive?

 

The non-league football stadium has a capacity of 11,000. The Racecourse is one of the oldest International Stadium in the world and has hosted International Football, Rugby Union and Rugby League. It was used as a Rugby League World Cup venue twice and hosted Leeds Rhinos with an attendance of 10,600. I invite you to attend the Racecourse and compare it to some of the rugby league grounds I've been to. Its an awfully lot better than quite a few... although we do have to pay for it! But thats not uncommon for League 1 clubs.

 

Wales Rugby League have a centre of excellence at Deeside Leisure Centre and our squad use the elite gym facilities here as well as the 3G pitches and a full rugby league pitch.. plus the DR facilities at Salford.

 

..and be careful what you say about our fans!! We currently have about 700 die-hards and have a great reputation of enjoying our rugby league with a smile on our faces. You're more than welcome to join us.

[Celt]

The non-league football stadium has a capacity of 11,000. The Racecourse is one of the oldest International Stadium in the world and has hosted International Football, Rugby Union and Rugby League. It was used as a Rugby League World Cup venue twice and hosted Leeds Rhinos with an attendance of 10,600. I invite you to attend the Racecourse and compare it to some of the rugby league grounds I've been to. Its an awfully lot better than quite a few... although we do have to pay for it! But thats not uncommon for League 1 clubs.

 

Wales Rugby League have a centre of excellence at Deeside Leisure Centre and our squad use the elite gym facilities here as well as the 3G pitches and a full rugby league pitch.. plus the DR facilities at Salford.

 

..and be careful what you say about our fans!! We currently have about 700 die-hards and have a great reputation of enjoying our rugby league with a smile on our faces. You're more than welcome to join us.

Thanks Gogledd - I wasn't slagging off your response at all - more just wondering how people see so many positives in what appears to be an unstable situation, and a lot of turmoil.

 

The infrastructure, as you say, probably shapes up fairly well against a lot of League 1 outfits.

[gogledd]

Wrexham FC do not own the stadium any more than Hull City own the KC stadium.

Glyndwr University are the landlords. Wrexham FC and North Wales Crusaders are both tenants and pay to play at the stadium. Wrexham FC is a fans owned club - owned by Wrexham Supporters Trust and were looking at ways they could buy the ground back - but that could be a long way off.

 

They WST have done pretty well putting the club back in a positive financial position. They also have a very active Disabled Supporters Association who have raised funds and installed a wheelchair viewing platform. North Wales Crusaders Supporters Club paid a donation to help change the hospitality box leading onto the platform to a suite for disabled supporters and their assistants (for rugby league and soccer).

[EssexRL]

..and be careful what you say about our fans!! We currently have about 700 die-hards and have a great reputation of enjoying our rugby league with a smile on our faces. You're more than welcome to join us.

A great bunch of fans - always look forward to their visit to New River (a ground we don't own either).

[The Parksider]

North Wales Crusaders ARE NOT Crusaders RL. Crusaders RL folded in their second season not through lack of support from fans but because the owners had financial irregularites with both the football club (Wrexham AFC) and Crusaders RL. In the end they withdrew their bid for the Super League franchise. Crusaders RL made the top 8 the year brian Noble was in Charge and average attendances were far higher that year. Support dropped off the following year when Iestyn Harris was in charge and they ended up bottom.

 

They were the continuation of the RFL's professional club in Wales policy.

 

Had Celtic Crusaders never existed then North Wales Crusaders would never have existed so we can dance around on this issue or accept the reality that whatever manifestation of a pro club we had in Wales there was a link straight though.

 

Financial irregularities? Had the consortium offered to pump a few £Million a year in then a fully pro Welsh side would still be there today. The RFL don't worry about whose money they take they just want the money to be going in.

 

And that's what it was about. Expansion is about saying to the business world come and sugar daddy an RL club and there's a place at the top table for you. Come in Mr. Samuel's, come in Mr. Branson, and now that offer remains at NWC.

 

Only there is no place at the top table.

 

And in Crusaders top eight year 2010 attendances DID average 4,621.

 

10,334 turned out to see the occasion of the opening match against the games top star studded team Leeds. 3,500 didn't return, and after the second game another 2,000 dropped off. By the time Salford came another 2,400 had dropped off.

 

The attendances had ALREADY badly dropped off by the time Hanbury was scoring a great try at Huddersfield in the quarter final play off.

 

The Crusaders board knew that despite top eight success they were looking at lower attendances 2011. They were looking at massive personal subsidies if they wanted to be like Huddersfield or HKR.

 

So they saw the License out for the RFL made their excuses and left.  

[gnidir]

Seems like this is going way off point.

 

I hope that new investment can be found for the Crusaders, they are too important to the game to fail. Decent support from a non-heartland area even playing at lower levels, decent ground, and some of the best off field marketing I've seen

 

North Wales has about half a million people, and very little sporting competition. It could take 20 years, but once rugby league is a familiar sport in North Wales, they will be producing some talent there.

 

Currently though, it seems like they have become a little bit separated from the local support base. Interestingly, I've seen that they are setting up a council to improve this.

 

For me, I think NWCs should be grown as an icon for North Wales first, once they can develop talent, they will draw crowds. 

 

I just hope that any investor who comes forward helps grow the community aspect of the club. What NWC don't have is historical fan base, what they do have is potential.

 

If I had the money, I would place my backing with a club like crusaders rather than Wakefield/Castleford/Leigh or any club that is surrounded by competition from the same sport, and has a low population to draw future support from.

 

Don't get me wrong, the game has a place for these clubs, I'm just pointing out that NWC has more potential if it is given the whole of North Wales to develop its talent and fanbase.

[Gowers Magic Hands]

There was a "Who do you think you are" type programme on Welsh tv and Russell Crowe came to Wrexham to see where his ancestors came from and visit distant relatives. Nothing lost in approaching him.

[Swansea Jack]

What about making Tom Jones the new president of the club.

[deluded pom?]

What about making Tom Jones the new president of the club.

That would be unusual.

[DoubleD]

What about making Tom Jones the new president of the club.

Does he get a say in it?

[The Parksider]

Seems like this is going way off point.

 

I hope that new investment can be found for the Crusaders, crowds. 

 

I just hope that any investor who comes forward helps grow the community aspect of the club. 

 

If I had the money, I would place my backing with a club like crusaders rather than Wakefield/Castleford/Leigh or any club that is surrounded by competition from the same sport, and has a low population to draw future support from.

 

Don't get me wrong, the game has a place for these clubs, I'm just pointing out that NWC has more potential if it is given the whole of North Wales to develop its talent and fanbase.

 

I don't think we are going off the point.

 

The main point is that we are not talking investment, we are talking subsidy here.

 

And what we all want to see in a subsidy is that money being used to develop the local game so that means running a semi pro side (or even pro if you can find a Multi Millionaire) BUT also linking into the local schools and developing the junior game.

 

We need that type of person in a hundred places, good luck.