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The great EU Referendum poll (new question in poll!)

EU Referendum  

149 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

    • Remain a member of the European Union
      72
    • Leave the European Union
      66
    • Don't know?
      11
  2. 2. With two weeks to go, has your vote changed?

    • Yes, I was remain, now leave
      0
    • Yes, I was leave, now remain
      1
    • Yes, I was don't know, now leave
      1
    • Yes, I was don't know, now remain
      3
    • No, but I'm holding on reluctantly to leave
      0
    • No, but I'm holding on reluctantly to stay
      5
    • No, my intention is the same
      18


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I don't do anthems... or flags... or any other symbolism.

But I do consider myself European.....


"I love our club, absolutely love it". (Overton, M 2007)

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Point understood.  However, as there are no words to the EU anthem, we'll be relying on Robin's instrumental skills.

 

In 1972, the Council of Europe adopted Beethoven's "Ode to Joy" theme as its anthem. In 1985, it was adopted by EU leaders as the official anthem of the European Union. There are no words to the anthem; it consists of music only. In the universal language of music, this anthem expresses the European ideals of freedom, peace and solidarity. The European anthem is not intended to replace the national anthems of the EU countries but rather to celebrate the values they share. The anthem is played at official ceremonies involving the European Union and generally at all sorts of events with a European character

 

http://europa.eu/about-eu/basic-information/symbols/anthem/index_en.htm

 

Although I think we should remain, I really don't know anyone who wishes a UNited States of Europe. I think that the differences between countries are greater than the similarities. The French still view us as a nation of shopkeepers and as perfidious albion.  So yes, cooperate, trade, deal, present an agreed European position on critical issues but do not ever ever ever import France's  anarcho-syndicalism, taxation, social charges, bureaucracy, statism...

Edited by JohnM

Four legs good - two legs bad

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The success of the United States comes from the fact that its citizens think of themselves as Americans first, while their allegiance to their state comes in second place.

 

 

I seem to remember that they had to go through a very bloody civil war to get there and despite that Federal law only fully asserted itself below the Mason Dixon line in the 1960s and even still some south of the Potomac prefer to fly a different flag.

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This isn't just about you!

I don't sing it either, because it's a ###### tune, with ###### words, paying tribute to an institution I consider corrosive to our society/

Edited by Trojan

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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I don't do anthems... or flags... or any other symbolism.

But I do consider myself European.....

I consider myself European too but I still want to leave the EU.  The EU and Europe are not the same thing.

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I consider myself European too but I still want to leave the EU. The EU and Europe are not the same thing.

where does anyone suggest otherwise????

"I love our club, absolutely love it". (Overton, M 2007)

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I really don't know anyone who wishes a UNited States of Europe.

Except for the majority of senior beurocrats in Brussels. It is, and always has been their primary goal to have a fully united political and monetary Europe under 1 flag and 1 leadership. Even Ted Heath admitted it, all be it after we'd already voted to join the EEC.

 

There may not be a great deal of political will for this amongst many of the individual counties leaders at present, but for the EU as an institution it certainly is.


This is captain Juncker speaking. The EU gravy train is about to enter Brussels, so will all Brits please exit at the next stop

To all remaining passengers, thank you for your continued custom and contributions to my pension fund

Kind Regards - YOUR PRESIDENT !

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I don't do anthems... or flags... or any other symbolism.

But I do consider myself European.....

 

But do you consider yourself a citizen of the European Union first and foremost?

 

And does that mean that you are as concerned about the fate of your fellow EU members in some of the poorer countries of the Union as you are about those in the UK?

 

That's an important point, because the logic of the EU is that the richer countries such as the UK will divert resources to the poorer countries such as Romania and Greece.

 

It's a praiseworthy aim, but can't succeed if the richer countries behave in a selfish manner within the EU.

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Although I think we should remain, I really don't know anyone who wishes a UNited States of Europe.

 

Well, for a start, the five most influential people in the EU clearly want us to move towards a United States of Europe.

 

That is the whole tenor of the Five Presidents' Report.

So maybe you should get to know them.

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Except for the majority of senior beurocrats in Brussels. It is, and always has been their primary goal to have a fully united political and monetary Europe under 1 flag and 1 leadership. Even Ted Heath admitted it, all be it after we'd already voted to join the EEC.

 

There may not be a great deal of political will for this amongst many of the individual counties leaders at present, but for the EU as an institution it certainly is.

 

I don't know them, though.


Four legs good - two legs bad

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That's an important point, because the logic of the EU is that the richer countries such as the UK will divert resources to the poorer countries such as Romania and Greece.

 

It's a praiseworthy aim, but can't succeed if the richer countries behave in a selfish manner within the EU.

Welcome to the real world of inequality ! and it isn't just about countries, its about the citizens that live in them.

Ask yourself, as a British citizen would you personally be willing to pay more in taxes and/or have poorer public services in the UK so more of your money could be paid to help families in say Romania ? Would you be happy to see your kids go without, say poorer education or medical care, so a child in Romania could get a better education and better medical care ?

 

There's only so much money to go around and for the poor to have more means the wealthy will have to pay more and get less

 

Even the most ardent Eurocrats who support this principal don't actually practice it. How many of them divert any of their mage-bucks salaries into funds for projects to help the poorer countries - I'd hazard a guess at next to none


This is captain Juncker speaking. The EU gravy train is about to enter Brussels, so will all Brits please exit at the next stop

To all remaining passengers, thank you for your continued custom and contributions to my pension fund

Kind Regards - YOUR PRESIDENT !

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I don't know them, though.

But they are the leadership of the institution that you want us to remain part of.

 

If you don't agree with the institutions goals then why vote to remain part of it ?


This is captain Juncker speaking. The EU gravy train is about to enter Brussels, so will all Brits please exit at the next stop

To all remaining passengers, thank you for your continued custom and contributions to my pension fund

Kind Regards - YOUR PRESIDENT !

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So many reasons.

 

The  knowledge that the alternative is worse, untenable

Leaving lends  credence to the view of the despicable Liam Fox

Signs that the functionaries are now understanding the need for change

etc.etc..etc

 

 

Still, with Corbyn throwing his weight around big time, Remain is sure to win.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36430606


Four legs good - two legs bad

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But do you consider yourself a citizen of the European Union first and foremost?

And does that mean that you are as concerned about the fate of your fellow EU members in some of the poorer countries of the Union as you are about those in the UK?

That's an important point, because the logic of the EU is that the richer countries such as the UK will divert resources to the poorer countries such as Romania and Greece.

It's a praiseworthy aim, but can't succeed if the richer countries behave in a selfish manner within the EU.

Yes

Yes

I know

Yes, I agree.


"I love our club, absolutely love it". (Overton, M 2007)

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1. But do you consider yourself a citizen of the European Union first and foremost?

 

2. And does that mean that you are as concerned about the fate of your fellow EU members in some of the poorer countries of the Union as you are about those in the UK?

 

3. That's an important point, because the logic of the EU is that the richer countries such as the UK will divert resources to the poorer countries such as Romania and Greece.

 

4. It's a praiseworthy aim, but can't succeed if the richer countries behave in a selfish manner within the EU.

 

 

1. Personally, I consider myself a Yorkshireman, a Northerner, British, European, citizen of the World - in that order simply because of increasing size. However, I don't view them as qualitatively any different.

 

2. Yes. I am far more concerned about the working class of Europe than I am the wealthy of the UK.

 

3. Absolutely, that why I am in favour of the EU in spite of it's many faults.

 

4. It's not "praiseworthy" it's essential to the responsible development of the planet.

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I don't know them, though.

I don't know our unelected head of state.

"I love our club, absolutely love it". (Overton, M 2007)

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1. Personally, I consider myself a Yorkshireman, a Northerner, British, European, citizen of the World - in that order simply because of increasing size. However, I don't view them as qualitatively any different.

2. Yes. I am far more concerned about the working class of Europe than I am the wealthy of the UK.

3. Absolutely, that why I am in favour of the EU in spite of it's many faults.

4. It's not "praiseworthy" it's essential to the responsible development of the planet.

the weary fella puts it much better than I did

"I love our club, absolutely love it". (Overton, M 2007)

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Welcome to the real world of inequality ! and it isn't just about countries, its about the citizens that live in them.

Ask yourself, as a British citizen would you personally be willing to pay more in taxes and/or have poorer public services in the UK so more of your money could be paid to help families in say Romania ? Would you be happy to see your kids go without, say poorer education or medical care, so a child in Romania could get a better education and better medical care ?

There's only so much money to go around and for the poor to have more means the wealthy will have to pay more and get less

Even the most ardent Eurocrats who support this principal don't actually practice it. How many of them divert any of their mage-bucks salaries into funds for projects to help the poorer countries - I'd hazard a guess at next to none

You're a Tory you don't care about equality


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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You're a Tory you don't care about equality

Firstly, I'm not a Tory - never voted Tory in my life

 

Secondly - you haven't answered my questions. Your all for banging the equality drum but would you be willing to have a lower quality of life and see your family go without so that someone in another poorer European country can have a better quality of life ? 

The money has to come from somewhere, and that means coming from the taxpayers of the wealthier countries like Britain. 

 

So go on the - Would you pay more in taxes and accept a lower quality of life so that another poor European country and their citizens gets a better quality of life ? 

Only if you can truthfully answer yes to that will you actually be practicing what you preach about equality.

 

Even if you do answer yes, do you actually practice it now ? Do you forego your family holiday ever year, not buy the latest iphone or other gadget, or only buy your kids a birthday present of nominal value and instead give that money to a charity that helps the poor & disadvantaged around the world ?

 

If you do then I take my hat off to you sir, but if not then its completely hypocritical to criticize anyone else's views on equality if you don't practice what you preach


This is captain Juncker speaking. The EU gravy train is about to enter Brussels, so will all Brits please exit at the next stop

To all remaining passengers, thank you for your continued custom and contributions to my pension fund

Kind Regards - YOUR PRESIDENT !

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Ask yourself, as a British citizen would you personally be willing to pay more in taxes and/or have poorer public services in the UK so more of your money could be paid to help families in say Romania ? Would you be happy to see your kids go without, say poorer education or medical care, so a child in Romania could get a better education and better medical care ?

 

 

 

As is the wont of the extreme right wing you have set up an entirely false dichotomy. As a British citizen I am personally willing to pay more in taxes to have better public services in the UK and pay more to help families in, say, Romania. My kids and the children of Romania have poorer education and medical care than they should because the wealthy have accumulated and continue to accumulate too much wealth.

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Firstly, I'm not a Tory - never voted Tory in my life

 

Secondly - you haven't answered my questions. Your all for banging the equality drum but would you be willing to have a lower quality of life and see your family go without so that someone in another poorer European country can have a better quality of life ? 

The money has to come from somewhere, and that means coming from the taxpayers of the wealthier countries like Britain. 

 

So go on the - Would you pay more in taxes and accept a lower quality of life so that another poor European country and their citizens gets a better quality of life ? 

Only if you can truthfully answer yes to that will you actually be practicing what you preach about equality.

 

Even if you do answer yes, do you actually practice it now ? Do you forego your family holiday ever year, not buy the latest iphone or other gadget, or only buy your kids a birthday present of nominal value and instead give that money to a charity that helps the poor & disadvantaged around the world ?

 

If you do then I take my hat off to you sir, but if not then its completely hypocritical to criticize anyone else's views on equality if you don't practice what you preach

 

Why are you extreme right wingers so obsessed with the idea that to be socially progressive means doing without?

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Firstly, I'm not a Tory - never voted Tory in my life

 

Secondly - you haven't answered my questions. Your all for banging the equality drum but would you be willing to have a lower quality of life and see your family go without so that someone in another poorer European country can have a better quality of life ? 

The money has to come from somewhere, and that means coming from the taxpayers of the wealthier countries like Britain. 

 

So go on the - Would you pay more in taxes and accept a lower quality of life so that another poor European country and their citizens gets a better quality of life ? 

Only if you can truthfully answer yes to that will you actually be practicing what you preach about equality.

 

Even if you do answer yes, do you actually practice it now ? Do you forego your family holiday ever year, not buy the latest iphone or other gadget, or only buy your kids a birthday present of nominal value and instead give that money to a charity that helps the poor & disadvantaged around the world ?

 

If you do then I take my hat off to you sir, but if not then its completely hypocritical to criticize anyone else's views on equality if you don't practice what you preach

 

I think you're grossly overestimating our contribution to the EU. We currently contribute less than 0.5% of GDP. And that is on nett contributions only without considering what we get back in extra trade etc. Weary posted a chart showing exactly how small of total government expenditure it actually accounts for a page or so back. 


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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