Replacing WCC with the Challenge Cup

[Sports Prophet]

3 minutes ago, Padge said:

 

Infinite, WOW, we will be able to pay-off the national debt, buy out soccer and still have enough left over for a few national stadiums.

 

 

I meant infinite in the; it can't be measured, definition.

your original question was rhetorical and got a rhetorical answer.

[Sports Prophet]

22 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

So you think a game between Wakefield and Parramatta, Salford v Warriors, Widnes v Wests, Rovers v Manly, Hudds v St George would be a better financial success at the Round of 32 than Hull FC vs Canberra in a WCS match with months of prep?

Absolutely. There is actually something worth winning in this instance. Players, administrators and fans alike, all value a prize. That's why the game and clubs exist. The bigger the prize the bigger the consumer interest. The bigger the consumer interest, the bigger the financial investment. 

The WCS has nothing at stake for anyone. There is no prize. Certainly not one of value. No months of prep polishing, can overcome the fact it is an exhibitional poo.

As you said in the beginning, the idea of a world knock out comp is brilliant. I suspect you and I are not the only supporters who think so. With consumer interest comes financial interest.

I feel you would be better served embracing what you love about the idea rather than focusing on obstacles preventing it being done.

[Padge]

10 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I meant infinite in the; it can't be measured, definition.

your original question was rhetorical and got a rhetorical answer.

 

So how much in cash pound notes.

I can predict that the current format would be bring in a lot more money if it had better sponsorship, if the government subsidised it, if it had a better TV contract and if all the newspapers treated us the same as they treat soccer.

Leave prophecy to the Sooth Sayers, you don't appear to have got the hang of it.

[Futtocks]

1 hour ago, Padge said:

 

1. Go then you tell us how much you predict it will make

2. If there is money in it soccer will do it.

FIFA have an annual tournament of champion clubs from around the world. The very best v the very best. It isn't very popular.

[Sports Prophet]

7 minutes ago, Padge said:

 

So how much in cash pound notes.

I can predict that the current format would be bring in a lot more money if it had better sponsorship, if the government subsidised it, if it had a better TV contract and if all the newspapers treated us the same as they treat soccer.

Leave prophecy to the Sooth Sayers, you don't appear to have got the hang of it.

I fear you are asking me to construct a full business plan here Padge. That would take months of full time work I am sorry. I am the prophet, not necessarily a FT RL administrator.

As for the current format making a profit with better sponsorship, government subsidy and TV contract and increased media interest, I guarantee you that you are correct.

Put aside your financial fears for a moment, because this idea is not financially impossible. Difficult, hell yes. Impossible, no.

If the RLIF could secure the finances required to make this idea at least $1 profitable p/a for the next 100 years including offering clubs and players alike a tangible and intangible prize worth competing for, would you like to see the Challenge Cup evolve to become a global competition?

[Padge]

1 minute ago, Sports Prophet said:

I fear you are asking me to construct a full business plan here Padge. That would take months of full time work I am sorry. I am the prophet, not necessarily a FT RL administrator.

As for the current format making a profit with better sponsorship, government subsidy and TV contract and increased media interest, I guarantee you that you are correct.

Put aside your financial fears for a moment, because this idea is not financially impossible. Difficult, hell yes. Impossible, no.

If the RLIF could secure the finances required to make this idea at least $1 profitable p/a for the next 100 years including offering clubs and players alike a tangible and intangible prize worth competing for, would you like to see the Challenge Cup evolve to become a global competition?

 

Forgetting the finances it is just a stupid idea, a none starter for logistic, cultural and competitiveness reasons. 

 

[Sports Prophet]

17 minutes ago, Padge said:

 

Forgetting the finances it is just a stupid idea, a none starter for logistic, cultural and competitiveness reasons. 

 

I havent asked you to forget the finances. I have simply asked you to entertain me with imagination that the finances are neither your responsibility or an obstacle.

I can guarantee, logistics are not a problem. We are blessed in this day and age with venues to host; planes, trains and automobiles to transfer; and hotels to accommodate.

So now your fears are cultural and competitiveness.

Tell me more. I am especially interested in the cultural obstacles.

I could answer rhetorical obstacle concerns all day. 

What I can't answer is: Would you like to see the Challenge Cup evolve to become a global knockout competition? If not, why not?

[Padge]

11 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I havent asked you to forget the finances. I have simply asked you to entertain me with imagination that the finances are neither your responsibility or an obstacle.

I can guarantee, logistics are not a problem. We are blessed in this day and age with venues to host; planes, trains and automobiles to transfer; and hotels to accommodate.

So now your fears are cultural and competitiveness.

Tell me more. I am especially interested in the cultural obstacles.

I could answer rhetorical obstacle concerns all day. 

What I can't answer is: Would you like to see the Challenge Cup evolve to become a global knockout competition? If not, why not?

 

No I wouldn't because its a stupid idea.

[Rob]

What's remarkable is that many people said similar things about putting a club from Canada in the UK third division.

But hey ho, a couple of weeks out from the season and the same team announce a sponsorship described as the biggest in Northern Hemisphere for rugby league clubs.

Some people have vision and imagination.  Some don't.

I'm sure we all accept that it won't happen.  The people running the sport are very inward looking and so unless the initiative is seized by someone from outside the sport, it ain't going to happen.

But that doesn't make it stupid idea.

[Sports Prophet]

Couldn't agree more Rob. I think too many people are letting mistakes of the past influence their opinions of what a good idea.

[Sports Prophet]

44 minutes ago, Padge said:

 

No I wouldn't because its a stupid idea.

How insightful  

[Padge]

9 minutes ago, Rob said:

What's remarkable is that many people said similar things about putting a club from Canada in the UK third division.

But hey ho, a couple of weeks out from the season and the same team announce a sponsorship described as the biggest in Northern Hemisphere for rugby league clubs.

Some people have vision and imagination.  Some don't.

I'm sure we all accept that it won't happen.  The people running the sport are very inward looking and so unless the initiative is seized by someone from outside the sport, it ain't going to happen.

But that doesn't make it stupid idea.

 

Well I for one never said anything of the sort about Toronto, I supported the idea from the start, that doesn't stop the idea of a World Challenge Cup being stupid.

 

[Sports Prophet]

27 minutes ago, Padge said:

 

Well I for one never said anything of the sort about Toronto, I supported the idea from the start, that doesn't stop the idea of a World Challenge Cup being stupid.

 

Many consider an answer without explanation is a stupid answer Padge... a bit like Wayne Bennett sometimes.

Not that he is stupid, he just says stupid things sometimes...

[Wellsy4HullFC]

9 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Absolutely. There is actually something worth winning in this instance. Players, administrators and fans alike, all value a prize. That's why the game and clubs exist. The bigger the prize the bigger the consumer interest. The bigger the consumer interest, the bigger the financial investment.

The WCS has nothing at stake for anyone. There is no prize. Certainly not one of value. No months of prep polishing, can overcome the fact it is an exhibitional poo.

As you said in the beginning, the idea of a world knock out comp is brilliant. I suspect you and I are not the only supporters who think so. With consumer interest comes financial interest.

I feel you would be better served embracing what you love about the idea rather than focusing on obstacles preventing it being done.

Absolutely?! The crowd Hull v Canberra would have gotten would have been bigger than most of those clubs mentioned could fit in their stadia. In fact, every WCS attendance has been bigger than they could fit in their ground (Widnes, Salford, Leigh, Rovers, Wakefield, Cas...) so unless you think that suddenly a hastily attached World CC match would need to move to a bigger ground, I honestly don't think you've thought this through.

The wider supporter interest would be there. It would be more meaningful, I have no doubt about that. The WCS is just an exhibition and I'd much prefer an expanded format. The one you're suggesting is just ridiculous for so many reasons though. It logistically wouldn't work.

You say logistics wouldn't be a problem because of today's travel, but that just shows you haven't thought of all the logistics involved. The money wouldn't cover it as mentioned (if Canberra won't come over even for a guaranteed five figure crowd, others won't for four figures). Travel is much larger than Toronto (who are playing in blocks of 4 to make logistics possible, something that cannot be done in your situation). 24-30 hours travel will mean missing training time, potential risk of injury, jet lag, etc. Teams travelling that far cannot just jump on a plane and expect to be competitive from the first day. It takes time. Your schedule wouldn't allow for that without stopping many fixtures (which wouldn't be possible).

I love the idea of me going to the moon, but realistically I can't! I shouldn't waste time embracing an impossibility, regardless of how much I love the idea. This just isn't possible.

[jenson]

Certainly seems like a tough sell for NRL clubs given their current funding, the number of games already played, and the seeming lack of interest in the existing WCC, but a nice thought starter.

To move in that direction, you could look at individual club matches rather than a full tournament. NRL clubs often get itchy feet and take games on the road.

Do an NRL match or two in Toronto with a Wolfpack and Super League game on the same day or weekend. Take the same three games to Florida (if they're serious about League 1), throw a USARL game in and make it a Rugby League festival with all the community engagement and coaching that goes with it. Instead of one SL game, could they take the whole Magic Weekend? 

Another idea might be inviting a few UK clubs to the Auckland Nines, and host the WCC games in Aus/NZ at the same time. 

[bamfordsbeans]

Of all the numerous reasons why this will not happen,the biggest is the Aussies are streets ahead of us.Until we start narrowing the gap,any ideas like this are "pie in the sky".

[Sports Prophet]

So Wellsy, as you say, the WCS fixtures have all been an attendance success. Compared to what most regard as the attendance failure of the SL.

Pardon my enthusiasm, but I think those two simple sentences demonstrates even more so, a reason to explore possibilities to get this idea off the ground.

Wellsy, you are still making assumptions on financials that have not yet been established. How do you know the money is not there. I feel it is naive to think there would not be a significantly increased corporate interest in a global Challenge Cup, than that of a unrewarding exhibition series. Couple a significant financial reward with a significant emotional reward and the clubs, players and staff will happily travel.

Logistics, ok then, so between 1-5 weeks of non league fixtures for all clubs in the last 32. Lets also go a little more conservative and play domestically until the quarters (4 NH and 4 SH). First two NH clubs drawn will play at home against the first two selected SH clubs and vice versa. Winners of those four fixtures will remain in the hemisphere they are in and play the winner of the corresponding fixture a week later. Thus reducing what are considered by yourself and Padge "insurmountable" financial and time constraints.

There you go, that didn't take too much thinking did it?

[Sports Prophet]

Oh, as well Padge and Wellsy, I might add flights from:

NZ to South Africa are 20-22hrs,

Oz to Buenos Aires are 17-20hrs,

The Super Rugby competition and clubs don't seem to have a problem overcoming the financial and exhaustive expenses with the associated travel...

[Padge]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Oh, as well Padge and Wellsy, I might add flights from:

NZ to South Africa are 20-22hrs,

Oz to Buenos Aires are 17-20hrs,

The Super Rugby competition and clubs don't seem to have a problem overcoming the financial and exhaustive expenses with the associated travel...

 

You are comparing Apples & Oranges, two totally different sporting schedules.

Do you know how knockout cup competitions work.

Yep, still a stupid idea.

[The Future is League]

On 1/25/2017 at 3:27 PM, Sports Prophet said:

Probably not an idea for the traditionalists but...

and assuming more people like the idea of international competition than not...

Scrap the WCC and open up the Challenge Cup to the clubs throughout the world?  

The Challenge Cup becomes a world knock out competition.

SL and NRL clubs join at round of 32 drawing domestic league opponents, where a victory will lead clubs to an all in Round of 16 where you could draw a home or away trip to Aus, Eng, Fra, NZ or fingers crossed... somewhere different. If the potential of up to four trans continental away fixtures is too much to bare, maybe bring the global rounds in at last 8 stage.

Plenty more corporate opportunity than a pre-season one game WCC. 

More chances to play international clubs.

Exposure of club teams and professional leagues on an wider international scale.

If you can get your fellow Aussies ifans nterested in anything outside the NRL or SOO your a better man than i.

[Sports Prophet]

22 minutes ago, Padge said:

 

You are comparing Apples & Oranges, two totally different sporting schedules.

Do you know how knockout cup competitions work.

Yep, still a stupid idea.

Knockout or league, it doesn't matter. My example displays professional sports clubs are partaking in far more regular long distance travelling than what I am proposing clubs undertake in a global Challenge Cup... and they have been doing it for years!

If they can afford it both financially and physically every season, why do you think RL can't afford it on a much smaller scale?

You are persisting in arguing whilst ignoring my examples and solutions. That is something either stupid people do; or people doing stupid things do. Much like your unsubstantiated feedback. 

Now which one is it Padge?

[MatthewWoody]

Too complicated and expensive. 

[Padge]

 

8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Now which one is it Padge?

4 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

Too complicated and expensive. 

That one.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

12 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

So Wellsy, as you say, the WCS fixtures have all been an attendance success. Compared to what most regard as the attendance failure of the SL.

Pardon my enthusiasm, but I think those two simple sentences demonstrates even more so, a reason to explore possibilities to get this idea off the ground.

Wellsy, you are still making assumptions on financials that have not yet been established. How do you know the money is not there. I feel it is naive to think there would not be a significantly increased corporate interest in a global Challenge Cup, than that of a unrewarding exhibition series. Couple a significant financial reward with a significant emotional reward and the clubs, players and staff will happily travel.

Logistics, ok then, so between 1-5 weeks of non league fixtures for all clubs in the last 32. Lets also go a little more conservative and play domestically until the quarters (4 NH and 4 SH). First two NH clubs drawn will play at home against the first two selected SH clubs and vice versa. Winners of those four fixtures will remain in the hemisphere they are in and play the winner of the corresponding fixture a week later. Thus reducing what are considered by yourself and Padge "insurmountable" financial and time constraints.

There you go, that didn't take too much thinking did it?

An attendance success, yet still not enough financially to attract NRL teams over more regularly.

The only way it'd be a success financially would be a HUGE TV and sponsorship deal. It would have to be mega huge deal to pay for A LOT of teams to drop NRL fixtures that are incredibly lucrative and don't involve huge travel issues as well as potentially being knocked out of the tournament early.

They are assumptions - backed up by evidence. Yours are assumptions too - backed up only by wishful thinking and a hope that this could work on a very soon chance. I'm sorry, but that's just not enough to convince people this could be a good idea.

[Man of Kent]

Here's my idea.

The NRL clubs should play in a league format during the season to decide who the best team is Down Under.

At the same time, all the Super League clubs should play each other to decide who's best in the northern hemisphere.

Once the best teams in each hemisphere have been decided, the two champion clubs in the NH and SH should play each other as a challenge match to decide who is the best club in the world. 

I'd call it the World Club Challenge. Thoughts?