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Lobbygobbler

Reducing the influence of the ref for penalties

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Penalty decisions for marginal things like holding on and standing slightly offside, can have a large impact on the outcome of a game due to a hoof upfield AND six more tackles. 

I think penalties for these should not result in both. I personally believe that the tackle count should not be wiped clean and only a kick to touch should be given as a reward. This would reduce the vast influence refs have (in comparison to soccer)

any thoughts?

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1 minute ago, Lobbygobbler said:

Penalty decisions for marginal things like holding on and standing slightly offside, can have a large impact on the outcome of a game due to a hoof upfield AND six more tackles. 

I think penalties for these should not result in both. I personally believe that the tackle count should not be wiped clean and only a kick to touch should be given as a reward. This would reduce the vast influence refs have (in comparison to soccer)

any thoughts?

I think you may have suggested something similar before and I haven't been on board, but I must admit I would like to see the influence of penalties reduced.

To expand on your idea you get a choice of a kick to touch with no new set of 6, or you get a new set of 6 where you are.

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9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think you may have suggested something similar before and I haven't been on board, but I must admit I would like to see the influence of penalties reduced.

To expand on your idea you get a choice of a kick to touch with no new set of 6, or you get a new set of 6 where you are.

Possibly but the problem with that is that a penalty on the last tackle is rewarded 6 times more than on tackle 1 (as it is now) which seems daft.

A kick to touch does not discriminate!

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1 minute ago, Lobbygobbler said:

Possibly but the problem with that is that a penalty on the last tackle is rewarded 6 times more than on tackle 1 (as it is now) which seems daft.

A kick to touch does not discriminate!

With your proposal a penalty on the last on the line is one worth giving away as you are not penalised at all. That is the flaw. My system gets rid of that flaw.

 

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9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

With your proposal a penalty on the last on the line is one worth giving away as you are not penalised at all. That is the flaw. My system gets rid of that flaw.

 

Not true - you get a kick at goal!

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7 minutes ago, Lobbygobbler said:

Not true - you get a kick at goal!

Go and watch Yawnion if you want that. That would be a rubbish rule change if it led to more kicks at goal.

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30 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Go and watch Yawnion if you want that. That would be a rubbish rule change if it led to more kicks at goal.

We already have the kick at goal option for a penalty on the opposition line. The difference here is that you dont get a repeat set.

btw a kick at goal only gets you 2 pts, which is only 7/21 of a converted try (in Union it is 9/21)

I'd rather see a close game of RL with minimal influence from the ref, even if there is a mixed bag 

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Bad tackles and offside you can kick for touch, problems round the play the ball etc  tap penalty and no kick for touch, 

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8 hours ago, RidingPie said:

Why are people always looking to change the rules. If the team can't handle the time they shouldn't commit the crime. 

Well the ref penalised Clark for nothing last night - he was perfectly square at marker. Wigan scored from the field position they got. 

A lot of penalties are 50:50 now at the ruck.

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9 hours ago, Lobbygobbler said:

We already have the kick at goal option for a penalty on the opposition line. The difference here is that you dont get a repeat set.

btw a kick at goal only gets you 2 pts, which is only 7/21 of a converted try (in Union it is 9/21)

I'd rather see a close game of RL with minimal influence from the ref, even if there is a mixed bag 

My point is if you are 10m from my line i will just keep giving a penalty on the 4th or 5th in an attempt to get you to take the two instead of putting an attacking kick in.

There has to be a benefit to a penalty - one that doesnt encourage kicking for goal. Our rules encourage attacking the line and is a key difference to yawnion.

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12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Well the ref penalised Clark for nothing last night - he was perfectly square at marker. Wigan scored from the field position they got. 

A lot of penalties are 50:50 now at the ruck.

Refs are only human and it's fair to say it didn't effect the result. Usually they even themselves up over the course of the season. 

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The answer might be helped if refs recognised what was going on more during the tackle.  Cameron Smith has trapping opponents leg off to a fine art, as do many more.  Seems there's a million and one ways now to milk a penalty. P****s me of sometimes.

 

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The referees only influence the games because the players are either a. Pushing the rules to the limits to see how much they can get away with or b. Milking penalties in the other direction. If the players were more disciplined the referees would have less to do.

I am of course aware that this occurs in all sports but in Rugby League we seem to change the interpretation of the rules to suit the players and coaches.

Nobody wanted to feed the scrum straight so we let it become a farce, nobody wants to play the ball properly as it is too slow so we let them do whatever they like.

The referees are influencing games far less than they could/should be because they could literally blow a penalty on every single play. 

Let's point the fingers at the coaches and players not the referees. 

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47 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

The referees only influence the games because the players are either a. Pushing the rules to the limits to see how much they can get away with or b. Milking penalties in the other direction. If the players were more disciplined the referees would have less to do.

I am of course aware that this occurs in all sports but in Rugby League we seem to change the interpretation of the rules to suit the players and coaches.

Nobody wanted to feed the scrum straight so we let it become a farce, nobody wants to play the ball properly as it is too slow so we let them do whatever they like.

The referees are influencing games far less than they could/should be because they could literally blow a penalty on every single play. 

Let's point the fingers at the coaches and players not the referees. 

I think you'll struggle to find a sport where the rules aren't tested mate.  Even the blood bin got tested when an RU bloke, under instruction by an Ex England RU player who was also an ex Policeman, bit a capsule to feign injury, so a sub could get on.

 

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The bottom line is we are never going to make the game perfect. And any attempts to do so can often be counterproductive in terms of improving the game as a spectacle. See the infamous bunker in the NRL. Despite improving the number of decisions ref's get right some would argue that the rugby is not better for it.

I completely agree that it would be a bad thing if any change resulted in more penalty kicks at goal.

I honestly don't see any pressing reason to change the rules. 

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3 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

I think you'll struggle to find a sport where the rules aren't tested mate.

Yes I know.  That is why I said "am of course aware that this occurs in all sports "

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The rules are o.k. as they are. would agree that players are continually looking to milk penalties .It is up to the ref to sort things out .i think its the inconsistencies of some refs that have us fans moaning .I personally would prefer a ref who let a few things go than blew up for everything .Usually i ve found the more pens in a game the more niggle comes in and the worse the match becomes .

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12 hours ago, ivans82 said:

The rules are o.k. as they are. would agree that players are continually looking to milk penalties .It is up to the ref to sort things out .i think its the inconsistencies of some refs that have us fans moaning .I personally would prefer a ref who let a few things go than blew up for everything .Usually i ve found the more pens in a game the more niggle comes in and the worse the match becomes .

The incentive for the ball carriet to niggle, trap arms etc is there and extremely rewarding. Im a fan of refs allowibg things to be slowed down a bit as at the moment it seems inbalanced in favour of the attack. The ball carrier can mess around and try and cheat and he will not be penalised.

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2 hours ago, Dave T said:

The incentive for the ball carriet to niggle, trap arms etc is there and extremely rewarding. Im a fan of refs allowibg things to be slowed down a bit as at the moment it seems inbalanced in favour of the attack. The ball carrier can mess around and try and cheat and he will not be penalised.

Don't think I've seen anyone penalised for trapping an arm or leg before but we see stupid penalties for just throwing the ball at an offside player, by the acting half, given.

Cronulla got penalised for foot up in the scrum, but they still continued to do it, with no more penalties given.  We need stronger refereeing.

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On 09/03/2017 at 9:07 PM, Dave T said:

I think you may have suggested something similar before and I haven't been on board, but I must admit I would like to see the influence of penalties reduced.

To expand on your idea you get a choice of a kick to touch with no new set of 6, or you get a new set of 6 where you are.

I think Lobby's previous idea was that certain penalties like hands in the ruck would result in just wiping the tackle count clean. Without getting a kick to touch. Which I think has a lot of potential it would just be difficult to decide which offences it covered and which won a full penalty. Not convinced by this as you would be stopping the game for the kick to touch then the team may only have one or two tackles and would be kicking again. 

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1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

I think Lobby's previous idea was that certain penalties like hands in the ruck would result in just wiping the tackle count clean. Without getting a kick to touch. Which I think has a lot of potential it would just be difficult to decide which offences it covered and which won a full penalty. Not convinced by this as you would be stopping the game for the kick to touch then the team may only have one or two tackles and would be kicking again. 

I think if teams are on the 4th tackle i would expect them to take the tap restart with a new set, giving e benefit but reducing the impact.

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22 hours ago, Dave T said:

The incentive for the ball carriet to niggle, trap arms etc is there and extremely rewarding. Im a fan of refs allowibg things to be slowed down a bit as at the moment it seems inbalanced in favour of the attack. The ball carrier can mess around and try and cheat and he will not be penalised.

The one with the ball carrier that really galls me, and in my opinion makes the ref look extremely stupid is and we have all seen it so so many times, a player in possession can involve 2, 3, 4 defenders because of his strength to be put to ground, funny how he losses all that strength in getting up he can fall/collapse so easily to the floor just by the weight of a hand being placed on him.

If we have such a thing in RL as a Dive to gain a penalty this is surely it, refs should recognise this more, take appropiate action and award a free kick against the Dive.

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"If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League"

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On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 0:48 PM, Lowdesert said:

Don't think I've seen anyone penalised for trapping an arm or leg before but we see stupid penalties for just throwing the ball at an offside player, by the acting half, given.

Cronulla got penalised for foot up in the scrum, but they still continued to do it, with no more penalties given.  We need stronger refereeing.

Lockers was penalised second half against Warrington just this Thursday for hanging onto the tacklers ankle causing him to fall over. I am a Wigan fan  so no bias. 

I would like to see penalty against the tackled player for flopping about like a fish out of water trying to milk a penalty.

Another thing that might be worth a trial is a kind of league version of the rugby union penalty advantage system. Primarily I am thinking of cases where a player makes a break but gets dragged down and the tackles holds on for an age to help his team chase back into line. In this case the red could allow play to develop but shout penalty advantage and reset the tackle count to zero. The full set would make it more risky for the defence to push the refs limits. 

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