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Hollinwood

A permanent home for the club in Oldham

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35 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Just to point out that my original comment on this matter was as follows ....

"......the interest in the game has gradually declined especially as many current local inhabitants were not originally local (!!!) and had come to the town probably not even having heard of Rugby League.

Therefore they haven't got an RL background in their family and so don't have an interest in it ... and as that group of the population rises then the less newcomers there will be attending matches."

I never implied the game was "only for traditionalists" (I want it to be for everyone) and I did not say that more "non-locals" in the town was THE ONLY REASON for declining attendances but was just pointing out one of them.  Yes many  of those may well become interested in the team but I think the age-long act of passing down an interest in RL from grandfather to father to son has certainly diminished especially as those youngsters are not given access to the game via their schools.

The handing down from one generation to the other is a very interesting aspect. In Huddersfield, where I live, the supposed birthplace of RL the SL team struggles to get adequate support for the fare on offer whereas the soccer team draws good crowds. It has been said, with some justification I believe, that a prime reason for this is due to a "lost generation": Huddersfield went through a lengthy period of being truly awful with gates hovering around the 600 mark, clearly losing a host of supporters who never really returned. These would have been the fathers/mothers who would have taken their own children along to become the next generation of supporters. The fact that this generation failed to get the bug might just be something to do with struggling to get the numbers back up again.

I suspect that a similar situation can be seen to have occurred at Oldham and other clubs, with the same consequences.

(Most schools also don't run soccer teams nowadays by the way.)

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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7 hours ago, Paello said:

It doesn’t seem to be a problem at Bradford. Have you seen how diverse the crowds are there? 
I am not British and first time I was at a rugby match was 7 years ago And I didn’t even know the rules. Since then I have been to every single Oldham home game while “traditionalist” stayed at home.

Lets not use silly excuses please...

I agree with what you write but just to point out that my original comment was only concerning the fact that people coming to the town from elsewhere - and especially from overseas - have not had a RL upbringing whereas local people in the past have "handed down" their interest in the game by taking along their children from an early age. Therefore it is going to be far more difficult to attract "non-local" people to watch the game more than it is for those whose families have had a long-standing interest in it.

As you say, you didn't even know the rules at first whereas "local" youngsters (for use of a better phrase) would have got to know them from their fathers or grandfathers. That is how I - and I suspect many others - became interested in it.

I also understand that the above is just one of several reasons why attendances are not as they were.

Edited by RL does what Sky says
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what blind side says about schools not playing sport is correct. I watch children walk past my house going to school mainly 5 to 7 year olds a lot of them are obese and sadly so are their mothers.

sadly most of  these children are from a 1 parent family without a father figure to take them to watch sports. that is the environment they are brought up in how many on this forum come from a 1 parent family.

so the fact is children are not taught sport at school and a lot not taught sport at home

sadly it is the age of the couch potato go on any precinct and the  results. 

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3 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

The handing down from one generation to the other is a very interesting aspect. In Huddersfield, where I live, the supposed birthplace of RL the SL team struggles to get adequate support for the fare on offer whereas the soccer team draws good crowds. It has been said, with some justification I believe, that a prime reason for this is due to a "lost generation": Huddersfield went through a lengthy period of being truly awful with gates hovering around the 600 mark, clearly losing a host of supporters who never really returned. These would have been the fathers/mothers who would have taken their own children along to become the next generation of supporters. The fact that this generation failed to get the bug might just be something to do with struggling to get the numbers back up again.

I suspect that a similar situation can be seen to have occurred at Oldham and other clubs, with the same consequences.

(Most schools also don't run soccer teams nowadays by the way.)

You sure it wasn't leaving Fartown that did the damage, Johnny?

I could go on at length about losing Watersheddings (won't - still hurts).

Suffice to say that the number of fans that used to walk five or ten minutes from home was phenomenal. 

I wasn't a "local" as such, living where I do. I worked with a bunch of guys who went regularly and bent my ear about how good it was. I went to my first match with them against Hull KR and was hooked (a low scoring war of attrition). The following Monday, I was offered  a ticket for the Tuesday night against Wigan in the Lancs Cup. We won. I was proper hooked after that one!

Edited by BryanC
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15 hours ago, tandle said:

what blind side says about schools not playing sport is correct. I watch children walk past my house going to school mainly 5 to 7 year olds a lot of them are obese and sadly so are their mothers.

sadly most of  these children are from a 1 parent family without a father figure to take them to watch sports. that is the environment they are brought up in how many on this forum come from a 1 parent family.

so the fact is children are not taught sport at school and a lot not taught sport at home

sadly it is the age of the couch potato go on any precinct and the  results. 

wow... huge generalisation here. 

My lads are 8 and 5 both play rugby for Limeside Lions and the elder ones play cricket. Where I do agree with you is that at their school they only have access to football really so don't have access to team sports. Fortunately for them I've always been a fan of sport and keeping fit so I take them to sports clubs. 

Funnily enough a few not all of the parents at the rugby club are single parents so that kind of disproves your theory!  

 

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On 15/10/2019 at 20:42, BryanC said:

I wasn't a "local" as such, living where I do. I worked with a bunch of guys who went regularly and bent my ear about how good it was. I went to my first match with them against Hull KR and was hooked (a low scoring war of attrition). The following Monday, I was offered  a ticket for the Tuesday night against Wigan in the Lancs Cup. We won. I was proper hooked after that one!

Glory seeker 🤣

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On 15/10/2019 at 20:42, BryanC said:

You sure it wasn't leaving Fartown that did the damage, Johnny?

I could go on at length about losing Watersheddings (won't - still hurts).

Suffice to say that the number of fans that used to walk five or ten minutes from home was phenomenal. 

I wasn't a "local" as such, living where I do. I worked with a bunch of guys who went regularly and bent my ear about how good it was. I went to my first match with them against Hull KR and was hooked (a low scoring war of attrition). The following Monday, I was offered  a ticket for the Tuesday night against Wigan in the Lancs Cup. We won. I was proper hooked after that one!

The days of the 500/600 crowds were at Fartown Bryan. The ground by that time reflected the team - aged and decaying.

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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On 15/10/2019 at 19:11, tandle said:

what blind side says about schools not playing sport is correct. I watch children walk past my house going to school mainly 5 to 7 year olds a lot of them are obese and sadly so are their mothers.

sadly most of  these children are from a 1 parent family without a father figure to take them to watch sports. that is the environment they are brought up in how many on this forum come from a 1 parent family.

so the fact is children are not taught sport at school and a lot not taught sport at home

sadly it is the age of the couch potato go on any precinct and the  results. 

I am not being at all political here but the rot set in with the introduction of teachers' contracts in the 80's (?). Up until then the hours of work were never defined and teachers happily gave up their own time to teach sports, and other things, after school. The gradual imposition of measurement and monitoring led those entering the profession to develop a completely different attitude, hence no after-hours sports training.

Nor is it recent: just look at the current state of amateur RL in the North, simply due to a lack of players willing to make the commitment.

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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Very interesting point about teachers. I've never known it brought up before, but obviously a major factor in how things have declined.

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It seems a lot of schools are outsourcing sports and PE activities. My son is a sports coach graduate and most of the jobs out there are with organisations that go into schools and provide sports sessions at lunch or after school. So that more of the academic day is focused on the core curriculum, not PE.  Gone are the days when schools run 3 or 4 teams for rugby/ football/ cricket etc. A backward step in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

I am not being at all political here but the rot set in with the introduction of teachers' contracts in the 80's (?). Up until then the hours of work were never defined and teachers happily gave up their own time to teach sports, and other things, after school. The gradual imposition of measurement and monitoring led those entering the profession to develop a completely different attitude, hence no after-hours sports training.

Nor is it recent: just look at the current state of amateur RL in the North, simply due to a lack of players willing to make the commitment.

It's the way the world has changed these days. In the past, in my opinion, there was more of a community spirit whereas these days it's every man for himself and with people unwilling to volunteer to help others - unless a good price is negotiated first !

I can't blame the teachers alone for that; they are only doing what everybody else is.

Edited by RL does what Sky says
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2 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

I am not being at all political here but the rot set in with the introduction of teachers' contracts in the 80's (?). Up until then the hours of work were never defined and teachers happily gave up their own time to teach sports, and other things, after school. The gradual imposition of measurement and monitoring led those entering the profession to develop a completely different attitude, hence no after-hours sports training.

Nor is it recent: just look at the current state of amateur RL in the North, simply due to a lack of players willing to make the commitment.

The RFL would have propped things up for a while with schools visits/training etc.  When they went (due to money), there was not much left.  


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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On 17/10/2019 at 10:56, RL does what Sky says said:

It's the way the world has changed these days. In the past, in my opinion, there was more of a community spirit whereas these days it's every man for himself and with people unwilling to volunteer to help others - unless a good price is negotiated first !

I can't blame the teachers alone for that; they are only doing what everybody else is.

I think you might be right, but I would add another factor to your conclusions.

I remember my dad taking me to rugby training or to cricket in summer after work. He was also out playing sports himself most other nights too. I think we tend to work longer hours now, commute further and travel in more traffic. So the free time my dad's generation had, was much greater than we have now. If my lad starts to play sports when he is a bit older, I'm pretty sure I won't have a hope of being home in time to get him to such activities, like my dad did for me. I've certainly not got the time to play sports after work, like he did.

Probably the same goes for lots of the people who gave up their time in the past, to run the teams I played for. 

As we don't have as much time as we did, we don't mix with neighbours as much as we did and lead more insular lives which results in what you state above. Bring on the 30 hour week. 😉

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12 hours ago, DOGFATHER said:

As we don't have as much time as we did, we don't mix with neighbours as much as we did and lead more insular lives which results in what you state above.

Agree 100%, there doesn't seem to be a feeling of community any more. 

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On 14/10/2019 at 15:41, jroyales said:

One of the greatest problems facing ORLFC is the total demise of schools playing rugby. When I was teaching every secondary school had a team, there was a town team that all the lads wanted to play for, there was a county side and to top it all a national schoolboys side.

What do we have now - nothing w33

Back to the original post the argument about playing on the "rugby" side of the town is a sound one. I have advocated for a long time about the building of a community stadium on the old Higginshaw gasworks site - it's massive.

Sadly neither will happen. The supporters will get older and not replaced by younger blood and rugby in schools, I feel, will not be resurrected.

Never heard such rubbish and out of date rubbish for a long time 

I am 49 years old rugby league was never played in all schools in Oldham and only kids from certain schools got selected for county or national sides 

rugby will be kept alive by local rugby clubs not lazy teachers 

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Lazy teachers?? I think you'll find their roles have changed massively since the 80s when you were in school, sadly dogged down by paperwork and red tape nowadays.  I'm 50 and remember a good few secondary schools running RL teams at different age groups

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