Leeds hit by Leeds RUFC going bust

[Phil]

43 minutes ago, JohnM said:

No trade credit  insurance? A bit remiss. 

Fairly stringent requirements John, like the insured party being credit worthy for a start 

[Gerrumonside ref]

8 minutes ago, M j M said:

Leeds will be fine, they still have plenty of cash in the bank and the richest man in British Rugby League behind them.

Caddick has OK'd taking the financial reigns off in the past year or so with the amount of money thrown at hiring and firing head coaches, marquee players, significantly expanding the coaching backroom staff and bringing Sinfield etc back onto the payroll. Whether they can do all that, plus reduce as recently promised to totally uncommercial levels the management charges for stadium and administration services to the continuing Leeds RU without going to the Bank of Caddick for the first time in almost two decades I don't know.

 

 Cheers, that’s interesting.

[Man of Kent]

Several clubs have published accounts recently. Worth a look.

Saints made a loss of £645k last year, Wire made a profit of £338k.

Wigan, Leeds, Saints and Wire all spend around £4.5m on wages including coaching staff, admin etc. 

[M j M]

4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Several clubs have published accounts recently. Worth a look.

Saints made a loss of £645k last year, Wire made a profit of £338k.

Wigan, Leeds, Saints and Wire all spend around £4.5m on wages including coaching staff, admin etc. 

Here's a summary I made last year of the Big 4's 2017 results - interesting to see who's had better and worse years.

[M j M]

7 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

 

Wigan, Leeds, Saints and Wire all spend around £4.5m on wages including coaching staff, admin etc. 

Wigan's wages and salaries always seem well out of whack to me given the other three all have significant stadium, corporate and non-gameday operations to run alongside just the RL clubs.

[Man of Kent]

11 minutes ago, M j M said:

It's a useful metric although the main health warning on that is that the starting point for the valuation of Headingley in the accounts for various accounting reasons is retained at its 1997 value so is significantly understated compared to an up to date valuation of the property or, even moreso, the stadium's value in use.

Any idea what Leeds bought from Super League Europe for £440k having purchased nothing from them the previous year?

[paul hicks]

Yorkshire Carnegie settled a cva in June and are going to play in the championship in 2019  .

cant see the point really as it seemed the rugby unions premier Yorkshire club last season sold 150 season tickets and got crowds around the 750 mark 

[M j M]

5 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Any idea what Leeds bought from Super League Europe for £440k having purchased nothing from them the previous year?

No idea. Best guess is that it might be something to do with the WCC in Melbourne because that's technically a SLE property but it seems a bit too large a figure to be just that. 

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, M j M said:

No idea. Best guess is that it might be something to do with the WCC in Melbourne because that's technically a SLE property but it seems a bit too large a figure to be just that. 

Nigel Wood’s Greggs tab?

[paul hicks]

interesting take on Brexit by  LEEDS  at the bottom of the page

[DoubleD]

1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

Slightly off topic, but do the Rhinos have any joint ventures with LUFC. Do they advertise at Elland Rd, joint youth projects, help each other out in any way, community projects etc? Just wondering.

They’ve recently had much closer collaboration together with the council, since Radrizzani came into United around things like community projects and even wider potential infrastructure developments, which is positive 

[Rupert Prince]

18 minutes ago, paul hicks said:

interesting take on Brexit by  LEEDS  at the bottom of the page

Double ha ha if I could click one. Tripled. 

[paul hicks]

3 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Double ha ha if I could click one. Tripled. 

don't see the haha if I'm honest just a genuine commercial worry from a leading club 

[DoubleD]

25 minutes ago, paul hicks said:

don't see the haha if I'm honest just a genuine commercial worry from a leading club 

It’s standard nonsense that’s rolled out, would be the same for most companies 

[M j M]

3 hours ago, RugbyLeagueMan said:

And all this was because the thugby yawnion club was Caddick's toy?

It's not been owned by Caddick for several years. It's because the new owners signed players and contracts based on promised investment which the investor was then unable/unwilling to provide.

[Chrispmartha]

8 hours ago, M j M said:

No idea, not seen anything on that before and it's only mentioned in passing. It did raise my eyebrows as there aren't any indications of what the financial benefit to Leeds of doing that is (there will no doubt be one).

Don’t ISC now run it as part of the long term kit supplier deal?

 

edit, I should really read the full thread before commenting!

[Oliver Clothesoff]

7 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Several clubs have published accounts recently. Worth a look.

Saints made a loss of £645k last year, Wire made a profit of £338k.

Wigan, Leeds, Saints and Wire all spend around £4.5m on wages including coaching staff, admin etc. 

Not sure what you’ve been reading but Saints made a profit in their 2018 accounts. 

https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2019/07/24/saints-announce-profit-for-2018-and-look-for-continuing-improvement/

[M j M]

10 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Not sure what you’ve been reading but Saints made a profit in their 2018 accounts. 

https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2019/07/24/saints-announce-profit-for-2018-and-look-for-continuing-improvement/

You might want to look behind what McManus is saying rather than lapping it all up as fact.

[whatmichaelsays]

8 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I really struggled to see the reasoning behind such a long deal. I like ISC stuff and they're definitely better than most, but surely one of the biggest brands in rugby aught to be a bit more competitive in the market?

Depends what the club is looking at from its kit deal, but it looks like they've been looking to effectively outsource the retail side and to that end, ISC have the capability for that. 

I sometimes hear questions like "why doesn't a club attract Nike / Adidas etc?" but I don't think Leeds or any RL club have the pull for those sorts of players. 

Leeds probably sell in the region of 25,000 shirts a year (as a complete guesstimate). That's not going to appeal to one of the big sportswear brands without offering some sort of international exposure in lieu. 

Short of opening a Rhinos megastore in Dubai and Singapore, RL wouldn't appeal to those sorts of brands. 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

39 minutes ago, M j M said:

You might want to look behind what McManus is saying rather than lapping it all up as fact.

Yeah, I will listen to some bloke off the internet instead 

[Man of Kent]

1 hour ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Not sure what you’ve been reading but Saints made a profit in their 2018 accounts. 

https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2019/07/24/saints-announce-profit-for-2018-and-look-for-continuing-improvement/

I’ve been reading the accounts filed with Companies House, squire.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00331905/filing-history

See if you can spot the loss of £645,785...

[Oliver Clothesoff]

32 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I’ve been reading the accounts filed with Companies House, squire.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00331905/filing-history

See if you can spot the loss of £645,785...

Is this proper maths or you counting one by one?

[M j M]

Saints using EBITDA as a metric rather than net profit or profit before tax is probably not unreasonable given the items below that line (depreciation, interest etc) are almost irrelevant to them as they mostly relate to Langtree Park - and they're never going to come close to paying for that so it's easiest to just ignore them.

EBITDA is a metric lots of companies and analysts use and it has its uses. But I prefer profit before tax as, for most businesses, you can't just ignore financing and capital costs - in the long run you need to pay for your assets and pay the interest on your borrowings. 

But we also can be pretty certain that Saints choose the figure which looks least bad and claiming profits year after year gives their fans a warm and fuzzy feeling even if it's not the full story.

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, M j M said:

But we also can an pretty certain that Saints choose the figure which looks least bad and claiming profits year after year gives their fans a warm and fuzzy feeling even if it's not the full story.

However they spin it, Saints had more money going out than coming in. 

[Martyn Sadler]

12 hours ago, M j M said:

I'll give this news story to LPL free of charge.

That's very kind of you.

I would like to have an occasional contributor who could specialise in the business of Rugby League, as opposed to what happens on the pitch. I'm sure I once raised the matter with you.

You and I seem to have a difference of opinion on many things, but I would welcome your financial acuity.