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southwalesrabbitoh

RL suits plastic pitches more than they do many

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Mate change the title or this is going cross code straight away when in reality it doesn't have to.

FWIW I think we should be looking at putting 4G pitches in as many amateur clubs as possible so that they can be used year round with minimal concern about pitch degradation. 

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5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Mate change the title or this is going cross code straight away when in reality it doesn't have to.

FWIW I think we should be looking at putting 4G pitches in as many amateur clubs as possible so that they can be used year round with minimal concern about pitch degradation. 

Oh. Okay ?

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Agree they fit the style of play of the game  BUT they are not the panacea they are made out to be - they are NOT maintenance free and not all weather - you have to redo the rubber crumb every 10 years at significant cost and you cant remove snow from them for the same reason 

Great idea to roll out more IF AND ONLY IF there is enough demand form other sports locally to allow rentals outside of League to pay for the upkeep and repayment of initial outlay. I do not believe there is enough spare capital kicking around league to fund the outlay and additional debt for the sport is not good

Without going crosscode there are other sports who didnt think it through properly and are living to regret their decision

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3 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

Agree they fit the style of play of the game  BUT they are not the panacea they are made out to be - they are NOT maintenance free and not all weather - you have to redo the rubber crumb every 10 years at significant cost and you cant remove snow from them for the same reason 

Great idea to roll out more IF AND ONLY IF there is enough demand form other sports locally to allow rentals outside of League to pay for the upkeep and repayment of initial outlay. I do not believe there is enough spare capital kicking around league to fund the outlay and additional debt for the sport is not good

Without going crosscode there are other sports who didnt think it through properly and are living to regret their decision

As far as I understand it 4g/5g/6g pitches don't need rubber crumb infill

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6 minutes ago, Monkeydo said:

As far as I understand it 4g/5g/6g pitches don't need rubber crumb infill

Every single one I have ever stood on has and def all the AGP's installed by the darkside are rubber crumb based (ps they are officially 3G everything else is just marketing speak)

 

Sport England list the capital cost of an AGP for League at £1,125,000

Edited by SSoutherner
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45 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Mate change the title or this is going cross code straight away when in reality it doesn't have to.

FWIW I think we should be looking at putting 4G pitches in as many amateur clubs as possible so that they can be used year round with minimal concern about pitch degradation. 

I thought there weren't any 4G pitches. We'd only got as far as 3G, with a little bit extra, so i read. 

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6 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

Every single one I have ever stood on has and def all the AGP's installed by the darkside are rubber crumb based (ps they are officially 3G everything else is just marketing speak)

 

Sport England list the capital cost of an AGP for League at £1,125,000

The one in Cardiff apparently cost 400k.

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20 minutes ago, Damien said:

I think a better game of Rugby League is played when it is played on a grass pitch.

Better for whom ?

I dont play league so wont comment from a player perspective - ball bounces more predictably, and higher and rolls further plus backs can run faster on AGP so it is more "exciting" to watch a match on AGP in terms of sheer pace and gameplay. But a wet muddy grass pitch is always good for a few mistakes and handling errors which can turn a game on it's head if you are after drama

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19 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

Better for whom ?

I dont play league so wont comment from a player perspective - ball bounces more predictably, and higher and rolls further plus backs can run faster on AGP so it is more "exciting" to watch a match on AGP in terms of sheer pace and gameplay. But a wet muddy grass pitch is always good for a few mistakes and handling errors which can turn a game on it's head if you are after drama

British RL needs to build a big stadium with a retractable roof with an APS, so kids and that can use it during the year and not waste too much electricity on lighting. I'd put in in Sheffield. 

Edited by southwalesrabbitoh
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15 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

Better for whom ?

I dont play league so wont comment from a player perspective - ball bounces more predictably, and higher and rolls further plus backs can run faster on AGP so it is more "exciting" to watch a match on AGP in terms of sheer pace and gameplay. But a wet muddy grass pitch is always good for a few mistakes and handling errors which can turn a game on it's head if you are after drama

3g pitches are great for training and I have no qualms about them being in use if clubs want them, for whatever reason. I'd just prefer they weren't in use for actual games but beggars can't be choosers. At the end of the day it's just a different type of pitch to adapt to like a muddy pitch or dry pitch. 

As an ex-player and fan I think a decent grass pitch is much better. 3g aren't much fun for tackling and I'm very dubious about them when it comes to injuries, this also applies to football too.

As a viewer the game never seems as natural on an artificial pitch and it is sometimes too fast and it can be too easy to make yards. The bounce of the ball is completely different too especially kicking for distance.

 

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15 minutes ago, southwalesrabbitoh said:

British RL needs to build a big stadium with a retractable roof with an APS, so kids and that can use it during the year and not waste too much electricity on lighting. I'd put in in Sheffield. 

Can British RL afford one ?

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21 minutes ago, southwalesrabbitoh said:

British RL needs to build a big stadium with a retractable roof with an APS, so kids and that can use it during the year and not waste too much electricity on lighting. I'd put in in Sheffield. 

No it doesn't. It could actually build several artificial centres across the country for a fraction of the cost compared to something like that. Profitability would be much better too.

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13 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

Can British RL afford one ?

I'm not sure many of his suggestions are grounded in these types of realities.

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A local non-league football club has got one, it was part funded by a grant, but it is a lovely surface and now means the club has a potential income stream 365 days a year with no damage to the surface for the first-team and the place is buzzing on a Sunday with games all morning and into the early afternoon, with the bar open too, so another form of income previously unused on non-matchdays. They had two others football clubs playing there last season, so rental income from those clubs, too. They also hold four music festivals a year, too. 
 

I can see why clubs may want them from a financial point of view. Do they make for better or worse games? I’m not sure the pitch is as big a factor as some think. No team with one seems to have a particularly amazing record on the surface at present in Rugby League so it doesn’t appear to be a massive advantage. 

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1 hour ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

A local non-league football club has got one, it was part funded by a grant, but it is a lovely surface and now means the club has a potential income stream 365 days a year with no damage to the surface for the first-team and the place is buzzing on a Sunday with games all morning and into the early afternoon, with the bar open too, so another form of income previously unused on non-matchdays. They had two others football clubs playing there last season, so rental income from those clubs, too. They also hold four music festivals a year, too. 
 

I can see why clubs may want them from a financial point of view. Do they make for better or worse games? I’m not sure the pitch is as big a factor as some think. No team with one seems to have a particularly amazing record on the surface at present in Rugby League so it doesn’t appear to be a massive advantage. 

There is a big first mover advantage - if you are the only AGP for a 10 mile radius then you will get more rental income than if you have one within 5mile in 3 different directions. This is what has stumped the RFU - they looked at the rental income form the existing pitches and stupidly assumed that if multiplied the number of pitches the income would stay the same - it didnt, the per AGP rental is dropping as the number of pitches rises, hence they have halted the rollout

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4 hours ago, Damien said:

No it doesn't. It could actually build several artificial centres across the country for a fraction of the cost compared to something like that. Profitability would be much better too.

Haven't the FA come unstuck because they were planning millions (or have spent it) on pitches but Wembley costs have stuffed them?

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3G (now 4G) pitches are growing all the time here in the Netherlands.

Local councils are installing them everywhere to cut down on the maintainence cost of traditional grass pitches. Apparently it is cheaper to maintain a 3G / 4G pitch . We have six in the two villages (Town) of 25,000 people, in four clubs. (soccer)

But then again anyone who has ever been to play soccer or rugby in the Netherlands know even at the lowest level the fields are top quality..no park fields full of dog poo , ruts and broken glass.

Six Dutch Premier League (Eredivisie) soccer clubs play on "Kunstgrass" and  twelve Championship  (Kuekenchampieon) clubs ...so there must be a benefit in it .

Rugby union clubs are gradually changing to 4G fields and in my opinion its for the better.

Regarding Rugby League, when we first started here in the Netherlands it was impossible to get a grass field from the end of May to midway in August due to them being closed down for maintainence.

3G /4G fields has now opened up a whole new season .

 

From a sandy beach to a top quality surface..notice the difference ?

 

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1 hour ago, yanto said:

3G (now 4G) pitches are growing all the time here in the Netherlands.

Local councils are installing them everywhere to cut down on the maintainence cost of traditional grass pitches. Apparently it is cheaper to maintain a 3G / 4G pitch . We have six in the two villages (Town) of 25,000 people, in four clubs. (soccer)

But then again anyone who has ever been to play soccer or rugby in the Netherlands know even at the lowest level the fields are top quality..no park fields full of dog poo , ruts and broken glass.

Six Dutch Premier League (Eredivisie) soccer clubs play on "Kunstgrass" and  twelve Championship  (Kuekenchampieon) clubs ...so there must be a benefit in it .

Rugby union clubs are gradually changing to 4G fields and in my opinion its for the better.

Regarding Rugby League, when we first started here in the Netherlands it was impossible to get a grass field from the end of May to midway in August due to them being closed down for maintainence.

3G /4G fields has now opened up a whole new season .

 

From a sandy beach to a top quality surface..notice the difference ?

The reason artificial pitches have become popular in NL is mainly due to field hockey is it not? I notice you didn't name any of the premier soccer teams to have an artificial pitch, any of the really big clubs play on it? 

And I presume you know about this right? https://talksport.com/football/610224/manchester-united-az-alkmaar-plastic-pitch-dutch-football-expert-holland/

and if there is fill then this makes for interesting reading, especially the cases of goal keepers getting cancers in the US https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/dutch-findings-point-to-health-danger-of-rubber-infill-on-synthetic-pitches-1.3599661

and https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-tackles-chemicals-in-artificial-football-pitches-cancer-rubber-pellets/

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