The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[TheReaper]

9 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Another Groundhog Day.

Gotta get this baby up to 50 pages somehow 

[Smudger06]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

I'm not sure why you have been so emotionally affected by me pointing out that they wouldnt fly more teams out in the NRL. Its not really controversial

Scotchy you can't disguise the fact that it's a 4 times longer and 3 times more expensive flight just to Sydney. Let's talk Canberra, Melbourne, Auckland, Townsville, Gold Coast, Brisbane, Newcastle.......they'd be flying in a minimum of 11 teams anyway, as per what they fly in from SL so the point is totally mute. 

By the way NRL Magic is by no means set in stone, in fact it's only for 2019 & 2020 so......12 teams flown in, that's 1 more than 11 in most people's books. 

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

So are you now saying that flight times arent a consideration when planning kick off times?

If so we are agreed. To do so would be incredibly small time

If not, I'm not sure why you are trying to avoid owning your supposition

I listed the considerations. Logistics including travel was one of them.

It is one of the dumbest things I have read on here that travel logistics aren't a consideration for arranging international sports events.

[Tommygilf]

11 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It's not really a minor point.

Youve also agreed with my attitude towards it that. The the NRL would be more accommodating and do it right but be less likely to admit them. 

I'm honestly lost as to why this has upset you so much 

I'm genuinely bored of this and will leave it there.

[Dave T]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

Hahaha dont try and pretend that your small time, pathetic excuse of setting a kick off time so players can get a more convenient flight home is analogous to 'logistics' 

As if getting home on a monday instead of Sunday is akin to the d-day landings

Again, tell me where I said that. I pointed out to somebody who claimed that scheduling wouldn't be affected by logistics if they were playing in Oz was wrong.

I have no idea what flights clubs are getting home, and have little interest, because the scheduing is fine.

[TheReaper]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I hadn't read your post. 

Fair enough.

53 minutes ago, Dave T said:

So a potential customer base of a couple of thousand?

I agree, easily. Assuming 35 people/team for Marshall, TRU/NRU top divisions,and OWL, and 25 people/team for TRU/NRU womens, that almost 1800. Without including any juniors, lower divisions, friends and family. 

34 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Why is 1.30pm (6.30pm) such an issue?

It's been mostly explained, it's when most rugby people are involved with rugby. It's when a lot of other people are doing a lot of other things. Most sports tend to vary their start times so that if someone can't make a certain time, there are games at other times, trying to make it available to as many people as possible at some point.

29 minutes ago, Dave T said:

So somebody complained that they can't play rugger and go to the match? And somebody else suggested this population is a couple of thousand.

My point was that while they may not be able to have the most ideal kickoff time, you'd think they would be better off by not being the absolute worst.

And the primary reason IS small time - other teams don't want a later (FREE) flight, they want to hightail it outta there.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

You said it and I've already posted it again for you. 

No, you haven't. 

This argument is weird. Toronto is miles away. Travel logistics need to be factored into the planning. Anyone claiming it shouldn't be considered is trolling.

[Smudger06]

10 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Have people gone crazy? 

The NRL magic in 2019 has happened, you cant get much more set in stone than that, and you can buy the 2020 tickets its pretty sure to go ahead

Thanks for clearing that up.

But anyway....... point still stands, it was a 2 year gig. 

[Big Picture]

1 minute ago, TheReaper said:

Fair enough.

I agree, easily. Assuming 35 people/team for Marshall, TRU/NRU top divisions,and OWL, and 25 people/team for TRU/NRU womens, that almost 1800. Without including any juniors, lower divisions, friends and family. 

It's been mostly explained, it's when most rugby people are involved with rugby. It's when a lot of other people are doing a lot of other things. Most sports tend to vary their start times so that if someone can't make a certain time, there are games at other times, trying to make it available to as many people as possible at some point.

My point was that while they may not be able to have the most ideal kickoff time, you'd think they would be better off by not being the absolute worst.

And the primary reason IS small time - other teams don't want a later (FREE) flight, they want to hightail it outta there.

So 1800-2000 persons out of a population of 6.4 million in the GTA as of 2016, playing devil's advocate that's a drop in the bucket for pro sports.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, TheReaper said:

Fair enough.

I agree, easily. Assuming 35 people/team for Marshall, TRU/NRU top divisions,and OWL, and 25 people/team for TRU/NRU womens, that almost 1800. Without including any juniors, lower divisions, friends and family. 

It's been mostly explained, it's when most rugby people are involved with rugby. It's when a lot of other people are doing a lot of other things. Most sports tend to vary their start times so that if someone can't make a certain time, there are games at other times, trying to make it available to as many people as possible at some point.

My point was that while they may not be able to have the most ideal kickoff time, you'd think they would be better off by not being the absolute worst.

And the primary reason IS small time - other teams don't want a later (FREE) flight, they want to hightail it outta there.

The problem is, Thursday 7.45pm isn't ideal in the UK (crowds are down),  Friday doesn't work for plenty of people. Sunday afternoon doesn't work for others. You talk about flexibility, yet scotchy is here calling it backward for not giving a fixed slot (they have a fixed slot) so what makes some happy, annoys others. 

In a City the size of Toronto, the 2k is pretty modest isn't it?

Again, if numbers that sized were being used for English clubs, they would be getting called backward for it.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Keep trying Dave, eventually you will find someway of framing the idea that setting a kick off time by the convenience of the flight home so that it doesnt look moronic and small time 

Isn't it odd how you consistently end up in arguments on here where people are telling you that is not what they saying, and you insist it is?

I will try and make it extremely clear:

I have no idea what flights teams get. I have never stated this slot is used because of a flight home. I assume some teams will differ in their plans this year. I have little interest. 

When scheduling an international sporting event, logistical considerations are an important part of planning. This would be exactly the same in TWP were in the NRL.

It is a very simple point.

[TheReaper]

14 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The problem is, Thursday 7.45pm isn't ideal in the UK (crowds are down),  Friday doesn't work for plenty of people. Sunday afternoon doesn't work for others. You talk about flexibility, yet scotchy is here calling it backward for not giving a fixed slot (they have a fixed slot) so what makes some happy, annoys others. 

I agree with that. You can't win every thing every time. Again, they don't have to be the best, but they could not be the worst.

14 minutes ago, Dave T said:

In a City the size of Toronto, the 2k is pretty modest isn't it?

Again, if numbers that sized were being used for English clubs, they would be getting called backward for it.

2k of what should in theory be your core. 

Every sports number out of 6 million is modest. When it's 2k out of 9k, that's over 20% potential increase to attendance. That pushes the number well over sellouts which means ticket values increase.

[Man of Kent]

t’Wolfpack deepen their links with Rochdale https://www.torontowolfpack.com/toronto-wolfpack-and-rochdale-hornets-reach-dual-registration-deal/

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, TheReaper said:

I agree with that. You can't win every thing every time. Again, they don't have to be the best, but they could not be the worst.

2k of what should in theory be your core. 

Every sports number out of 6 million is modest. When it's 2k out of 9k, that's over 20% potential increase to attendance. That pushes the number well over sellouts which means ticket values increase.

I understand the frustration, and you know better than me about local sport in Toronto, but I don't see 1.30pm as a massively controversial kick off time. 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

t’Wolfpack deepen their links with Rochdale https://www.torontowolfpack.com/toronto-wolfpack-and-rochdale-hornets-reach-dual-registration-deal/

Good that they now have somewhere they can play some of the younger lads that they will hopefully pad the squad out with now.

[glemiln]

https://t.co/jb1Zut7Eq0?amp=1
A great opportunity for Hornets and Toronto, of course!

[Bob8]

8 hours ago, TIWIT said:

Perhaps. But people like him don't get to where they are by giving up easily. And hey, it's only money. Rich people always need tax writeoffs. Better this than some rare painting or wine collection.

That said I don't think so. If he feels hard done by by Super League/RFL - and I suspect he does - he might demand a sit-down meeting with them to thrash things out. Maybe even have Perez with him to represent Ottawa's interests. If they can reach an accommodation, that is, do SL/RFL want foreign expansion, then he'd continue in the Championship with a rejigged lineup, still good enough to win promotion but with an eye to make the changes necessary to remain in SL.

If he doesn't like their answers then he might very well pack it in as a hopeless venture.

At the extreme end of it he might even approach the NRL and see how welcoming they might be. In that rather unlikely scenario he might then poach the cream of the crop from SL. As the saying goes, don't get mad, get even

 

This is possibly the first post the Man of Kent and I both liked, I think! Congratulations!

8 hours ago, aj1908 said:

imo he would go to MLR or top 14.

he has built up a big club.  where they play in the future is the question.

rugby leagues loss could be unions gain.

That would be an equally efficient way to lose money.

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, TheReaper said:

Gotta get this baby up to 50 pages somehow 

Well, there’s the right person on to get it up there tonight.

[TboneFromTO]

7 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

That would be an equally efficient way to lose money

I would say more efficiently, but potatoes potahtoes right?

(Below is Not related to your post Bob, but im not a huge fan of multiposting more related to the TV audience posts from a few pages back)

The TWP have this really unique opportunity thanks to RL(or vice versa).  They have a game that the population is familiar with (rugby union) and have at least one similar rule to another more well known sport (American and Canadian football) and all of a sudden you have the best of both worlds!  When I first took a friend who was visiting from Canada I explained it to him as "so if rugby (union) and the NFL had a baby the result would be like this" and he started to pick up the rules pretty quickly.  Now I know to some of the more seasoned posters may scoff at this but it's a great starting point for NA viewers.  If the networks in Canada could market and commentate it right they could have a real winner.

[TIWIT]

13 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Well, there’s the right person on to get it up there tonight.

If Parky was still around we'd be pushing 100 pages. His lengthy essays/rants and all the people quoting him would do that easily.

Thanks Mr Drake, this thread seems to be working as intended. And you've only had to suspend it twice to clean it up.

[TIWIT]

17 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

I would say more efficiently, but potatoes potahtoes right?

(Below is Not related to your post Bob, but im not a huge fan of multiposting more related to the TV audience posts from a few pages back)

The TWP have this really unique opportunity thanks to RL(or vice versa).  They have a game that the population is familiar with (rugby union) and have at least one similar rule to another more well known sport (American and Canadian football) and all of a sudden you have the best of both worlds!  When I first took a friend who was visiting from Canada I explained it to him as "so if rugby (union) and the NFL had a baby the result would be like this" and he started to pick up the rules pretty quickly.  Now I know to some of the more seasoned posters may scoff at this but it's a great starting point for NA viewers.  If the networks in Canada could market and commentate it right they could have a real winner.

Bang on!

Of course in Canada in winter between hockey and curling there's not a lot of available airtime.

[Smudger06]

10 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Was? Why are we pretending it has already failed?

Not pretending anything. 

Nothing to do with failure......or success. 

It's literally in the final year of a 2 year deal with the Queensland Government.

Could get renewed 

Could go elsewhere 

May go into hietus 

May not be held again 

Depends on a) do NRL want to do Magic b) will anyone pay an acceptable amount of money to the NRL to promote & host it. 

[Big Picture]

2 hours ago, TboneFromTO said:

I would say more efficiently, but potatoes potahtoes right?

(Below is Not related to your post Bob, but im not a huge fan of multiposting more related to the TV audience posts from a few pages back)

The TWP have this really unique opportunity thanks to RL(or vice versa).  They have a game that the population is familiar with (rugby union) and have at least one similar rule to another more well known sport (American and Canadian football) and all of a sudden you have the best of both worlds!  When I first took a friend who was visiting from Canada I explained it to him as "so if rugby (union) and the NFL had a baby the result would be like this" and he started to pick up the rules pretty quickly.  Now I know to some of the more seasoned posters may scoff at this but it's a great starting point for NA viewers.  If the networks in Canada could market and commentate it right they could have a real winner.

The only thing needed is a suitable league with well-funded teams in the right locations, a marketing campaign highlighting the parallels between RL and gridiron and a well thought out TV-friendly way of putting on its matches and away we go.

[Bob8]

1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

The only thing needed is a suitable league with well-funded teams in the right locations, a marketing campaign highlighting the parallels between RL and gridiron and a well thought out TV-friendly way of putting on its matches and away we go.

I would question your choice with the word "only"!

[Big Picture]

7 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I would question your choice with the word "only"!

Perhaps it should have been the first thing needed.