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gnidir

Marquee player in the Championship?

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Just wondering if the championship has an allowance for marquee players?

 

It might be a rule fiddle, but could Toronto make two marquee signings for Rochdale and play them in super league on loan?

 

 

 

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Perhaps an easier loophole to exploit would be to go out and sign say an Owen Farrell, or maybe a youngster like. Nanai-Setero that played league as a youngster but didnt play pro from union, sign him on a £3m 1 year deal which doesnt count on the cap at all under the new talent pool exemption then offer a new contract for then next 2 years for £10k a year. 

Fills the squad out for free this year under the dispensation and then gives the cheap players for the next few

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3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Perhaps an easier loophole to exploit would be to go out and sign say an Owen Farrell, or maybe a youngster like. Nanai-Setero that played league as a youngster but didnt play pro from union, sign him on a £3m 1 year deal which doesnt count on the cap at all under the new talent pool exemption then offer a new contract for then next 2 years for £10k a year. 

Fills the squad out for free this year under the dispensation and then gives the cheap players for the next few

Cracking idea Grommit , until he renages on year 2 and 3 ?

No seriously , sneaky , but not strictly ileagal , trust you to think of it 😁

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Didnt RFL put a block on contracts where there were vastly different payments for different years of the contract after Wigan tried something similar to avoid relegation year they signed Fielden. Thought they took average value over full contract length now rather than individual years.

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12 minutes ago, matt newsholme said:

Didnt RFL put a block on contracts where there were vastly different payments for different years of the contract after Wigan tried something similar to avoid relegation year they signed Fielden. Thought they took average value over full contract length now rather than individual years.

Yeah the contracts are pretty much averaged across the length of the contract. 

But what I'm suggesting is that they sign, let's say Farrell on a big £3m 1 year deal, then another contract at a very low rate in years 2 and 3. It would be 2 contracts rather than 1. So it wouldnt be averaged over 3 years because it was 2 contracts.

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48 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Yeah the contracts are pretty much averaged across the length of the contract. 

But what I'm suggesting is that they sign, let's say Farrell on a big £3m 1 year deal, then another contract at a very low rate in years 2 and 3. It would be 2 contracts rather than 1. So it wouldnt be averaged over 3 years because it was 2 contracts.

Would have to be a gentleman's agreement. He'd most likely take the huge deal, then look elsewhere for a better deal after the first year.


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19 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Would have to be a gentleman's agreement. He'd most likely take the huge deal, then look elsewhere for a better deal after the first year.

I'm sure there is a way of wording the contract and scheduling the 2nd and 3rd years. There is nothing to stop farrell signing a contract for 2022 in 2020. You include some liquidated damages based around loss of sponsorships, shirt sales, ticket sales, the contribution made to staying in SL etc.

Plus you dont have to pay all the £3m in year 1. You could spread the actual payment across ten years if you wish, the SC works on when you become liable for it and you can create an agreement you feel comfortable with. 

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11 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I'm sure there is a way of wording the contract and scheduling the 2nd and 3rd years. There is nothing to stop farrell signing a contract for 2022 in 2020. You include some liquidated damages based around loss of sponsorships, shirt sales, ticket sales, the contribution made to staying in SL etc.

Plus you dont have to pay all the £3m in year 1. You could spread the actual payment across ten years if you wish, the SC works on when you become liable for it and you can create an agreement you feel comfortable with. 

Isn't that just a way to circumvent the salary cap, in which they'd probably just take an average of all the monies owed? Spirit of the cap and all that?

I don't know the full ins and outs, but it doesn't seem a legit way to do it.


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There could be a few ways round this - could a team like TWP raid the lower divisions and get an experienced playmaker in mid season like say Chase from Doncaster on a 2 year deal pay him say 10K this season and then following season just pay him say £400,000? - 2 year deal on £410000?

Or they could pay slightly over the cap get some more players on, stay in SL and take a fine or point deduction next season?

To be honest just get rid of the cap and let the clubs run themselves like any other buisness. 

Edited by Mr Frisky

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10 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Isn't that just a way to circumvent the salary cap, in which they'd probably just take an average of all the monies owed? Spirit of the cap and all that?

I don't know the full ins and outs, but it doesn't seem a legit way to do it.

It is literally an attempt to circumvent the cap. But the 'spirit of the cap' area of the rules is on a lot shakier ground than the proscribed areas. After all it's a punishment for playing by the rules.

My other question is, why cant clubs take advantage of cap space in a given year? Why, if I have say 250k spare in year 1, cant I overpay in year 1 to under pay in year 2, 3, 4 etc. Why is that cap space just wasted?

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2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

It is literally an attempt to circumvent the cap. But the 'spirit of the cap' area of the rules is on a lot shakier ground than the proscribed areas. After all it's a punishment for playing by the rules.

My other question is, why cant clubs take advantage of cap space in a given year? Why, if I have say 250k spare in year 1, cant I overpay in year 1 to under pay in year 2, 3, 4 etc. Why is that cap space just wasted?

I'm guessing because it doesn't rollover. Whether it should is another debate I guess. 


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1 hour ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I'm guessing because it doesn't rollover. Whether it should is another debate I guess. 

Well it wouldnt carry over, I can see why that causes problems. If it did aggregate a club like wakefield would have tens of millions in cap space by now

I also understand the difficulties in back loading contracts and the problems that could cause in terms of getting to a point where you physically cant fit anyone else under the cap + what you owe, but front loading is another matter entirely. I cant see why it isnt allowed

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9 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Well it wouldnt carry over, I can see why that causes problems. If it did aggregate a club like wakefield would have tens of millions in cap space by now

I also understand the difficulties in back loading contracts and the problems that could cause in terms of getting to a point where you physically cant fit anyone else under the cap + what you owe, but front loading is another matter entirely. I cant see why it isnt allowed

Because it's CHEATING 😂

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10 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Because it's CHEATING 😂

It woudnt be cheating if it was allowed. I'm just asking what we achieve by it not being allowed.

You cant spend more than the cap in any year. You can make sure you use your cap space

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52 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It woudnt be cheating if it was allowed. I'm just asking what we achieve by it not being allowed.

You cant spend more than the cap in any year. You can make sure you use your cap space

Genius.

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On 13/02/2020 at 23:21, gnidir said:

Just wondering if the championship has an allowance for marquee players?

 

It might be a rule fiddle, but could Toronto make two marquee signings for Rochdale and play them in super league on loan?

 

 

 

 

On 14/02/2020 at 10:09, Hela Wigmen said:

I thought the salary cap was the same throughout the three leagues, so I presume you can get a marquee player if you’re in the lower leagues. 

Yes you can have a marquee player in the Championship and L1 (TWP had 2 in 2019) with the same rules applying as for SL.

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The cap employed in RL works, we still, have those that have at the top ,except Leeds of course, but their wealth will eventually put them back up there cap or not, what happens if the cap is abolished as far as the league structure goes the all the top players will be at the top clubs they will employ them just because they can. The competition will be between just 4 or 5 clubs it near enough is now and we have a cap in place, don't ever expect a team like Salford to come from nowhere and be challenging for the Honours again without a cap if just won't happen.

And don't give me an excuse of what about TWP, they supposedly had a 5 year plan, had they put that into operation as far as contracts and players are concerned they would be much better of, people rejoiced that they were ahead of schedule but they treated it like running the 1500 meters and jumped out of the blocks, without considering they still had a couple of laps to go.

Edited by Harry Stottle

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On 13/02/2020 at 23:21, gnidir said:

Just wondering if the championship has an allowance for marquee players?

 

It might be a rule fiddle, but could Toronto make two marquee signings for Rochdale and play them in super league on loan?

 

 

 

Don’t think this would a work as if these players played x number of games for TWP then their full salary would count on the cap. 

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On 13/02/2020 at 23:21, gnidir said:

Just wondering if the championship has an allowance for marquee players?

 

It might be a rule fiddle, but could Toronto make two marquee signings for Rochdale and play them in super league on loan?

 

 

 

No - there are quite a few rules preventing such.

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

The cap employed in RL works, we still, have those that have at the top ,except Leeds of course, but their wealth will eventually put them back up there cap or not, what happens if the cap is abolished as far as the league structure goes the all the top players will be at the top clubs they will employ them just because they can. The competition will be between just 4 or 5 clubs it near enough is now and we have a cap in place, don't ever expect a team like Salford to come from nowhere and be challenging for the Honours again without a cap if just won't happen.

And don't give me an excuse of what about TWP, they supposedly had a 5 year plan, had they put that into operation as far as contracts and players are concerned they would be much better of, people rejoiced that they were ahead of schedule but they treated it like running the 1500 meters and jumped out of the blocks, without considering they still had a couple of laps to go.

Yep as fast as Usain is , he ain't winning any Olympic medals in the Marathon 

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

The cap employed in RL works, we still, have those that have at the top ,except Leeds of course, but their wealth will eventually put them back up there cap or not, what happens if the cap is abolished as far as the league structure goes the all the top players will be at the top clubs they will employ them just because they can. The competition will be between just 4 or 5 clubs it near enough is now and we have a cap in place, don't ever expect a team like Salford to come from nowhere and be challenging for the Honours again without a cap if just won't happen.

And don't give me an excuse of what about TWP, they supposedly had a 5 year plan, had they put that into operation as far as contracts and players are concerned they would be much better of, people rejoiced that they were ahead of schedule but they treated it like running the 1500 meters and jumped out of the blocks, without considering they still had a couple of laps to go.

Didnt leigh go straight back down both times they came up? Didnt they score all of 5 points the first time?

That's not a dig at them, just pointing out that pretty much all clubs that come up struggle in their first season. 

Perhaps what it takes to get out of the championship isnt what it takes to stay in SL

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3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Didnt leigh go straight back down both times they came up? Didnt they score all of 5 points the first time?

That's not a dig at them, just pointing out that pretty much all clubs that come up struggle in their first season. 

Perhaps what it takes to get out of the championship isnt what it takes to stay in SL

True on both occasions , although let's not forget we had a £250K cap to get promoted in 2004 and then had to recruit virtually from scratch , 3 years earlier Widnes got promoted by spending much more than that , but also had a 2 month start on the existing SL clubs for recruitment , they finished 7th if I recall correctly 

Maybe that is what it needs ?

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