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marklaspalmas

2020 1895 Cup

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Because it’s a poorly executed competition, that’s laughably organised. It could be a very, very good tournament and one that is an important part of the calendar. 

Do we know who aren’t taking part? Presumably West Wales, Coventry, London Skolars, London Broncos and Toulouse but who else?

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I see that piece has the first and second round draws both taking place on March 18. Is that right?

As you say, it's a shame so many opt out, although I can understand the non-heartlands clubs not bothering.

Edited by Hopping Mad

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1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Because it’s a poorly executed competition, that’s laughably organised. It could be a very, very good tournament and one that is an important part of the calendar. 

Do we know who aren’t taking part? Presumably West Wales, Coventry, London Skolars, London Broncos and Toulouse but who else?

I love how that first sentence exudes so much positivity. How would you execute it differently?

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8 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

I think it's a shame that only 17 of 25 eligible clubs have entered this competition. Not sure why that is.

https://www.featherstonerovers.co.uk/news/1895-cup-returns-for-second-year-nCLk4

It is a shame, and it reveals a real issue with the level of professionalism of both the game's organisation and the clubs that play it.

Non league football down to division 11 (in a straight line from the Premier League) manages midweek league cups with longer journey times than most of these matches would have.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, Hopping Mad said:

I see that piece has the first and second round draws both taking place on March 18. Is that right?

As you say, it's a shame so many opt out, althoughI can understand the non-heartlands clubs not bothering.

Part time clubs/players playing twice in a week must be physically difficult. 
 

Would be so much better if the final was the Wembley curtain raiser but I appreciate that’s not the RFL’s fault. 

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This is the line-up...

AB Sundecks 1895 Cup

First Round (draw March 18, ties to be played on weekend of April 18-19): Barrow Raiders, Doncaster, Keighley Cougars, Newcastle Thunder, Rochdale Hornets, Underbank Rangers, West Hull, York Acorn.

Second Round (draw March 18, ties to be played week starting April 27): Four First Round winners plus Batley Bulldogs, Bradford Bulls, Dewsbury Rams, Featherstone Rovers, Halifax, Leigh Centurions, Oldham, Sheffield Eagles, Swinton Lions, Whitehaven, Widnes Vikings, York City Knights.

Quarter Finals: Week starting May 11

Semi Finals: Sunday June 7

Final: Saturday July 18, Wembley Stadium (Midday kick-off).

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Just now, gingerjon said:

It is a shame, and it reveals a real issue with the level of professionalism of both the game's organisation and the clubs that play it.

Non league football down to division 11 (in a straight line from the Premier League) manages midweek league cups with longer journey times than most of these matches would have.

It’s easy to play 2 football matches in a week though, so much less physically demanding than RL. 

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Just now, Hopping Mad said:

This is the line-up...

AB Sundecks 1895 Cup

First Round (draw March 18, ties to be played on weekend of April 18-19): Barrow Raiders, Doncaster, Keighley Cougars, Newcastle Thunder, Rochdale Hornets, Underbank Rangers, West Hull, York Acorn.

Second Round (draw March 18, ties to be played week starting April 27): Four First Round winners plus Batley Bulldogs, Bradford Bulls, Dewsbury Rams, Featherstone Rovers, Halifax, Leigh Centurions, Oldham, Sheffield Eagles, Swinton Lions, Whitehaven, Widnes Vikings, York City Knights.

Quarter Finals: Week starting May 11

Semi Finals: Sunday June 7

Final: Saturday July 18, Wembley Stadium (Midday kick-off).

Interesting that those three NCL clubs are in making up the numbers, good for them. 

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By my reckoning, the non-participants are Broncos, Coventry, Hunslet, Skolars, Toulouse, North Wales, West Wales and Workington.

Edited by Hopping Mad

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7 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I love how that first sentence exudes so much positivity. How would you execute it differently?

I’d go back to the model of the old Northern Rail Cup, incorporating a group stage before the league seasons start. There’s 25 non-Super League teams in the game and realistically, Toulouse aren’t going to compete in this if they don’t even compete in the Challenge Cup, so that leaves 24 sides. 8x groups of 3 as a group stage, H&A so two home and two away, guaranteeing sides income from home games. Eight group winners progress and so on. 

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9 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Would be so much better if the final was the Wembley curtain raiser but I appreciate that’s not the RFL’s fault. 

Thought it was being played before the final this year.

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11 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It is a shame, and it reveals a real issue with the level of professionalism of both the game's organisation and the clubs that play it.

Non league football down to division 11 (in a straight line from the Premier League) manages midweek league cups with longer journey times than most of these matches would have.

I’d be interested to know a non-League cup tournament that sees sides travel 650 miles (round trip) midweek for a game. 

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2 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

I’d be interested to know a non-League cup tournament that sees sides travel 650 miles (round trip) midweek for a game. 

FA Trophy (replays).

Edited by Hopping Mad
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Just now, Hopping Mad said:

FA Trophy (replays).

Teams have the opportunity to decide whether they play replays in that tournament, I’m certain it’s regionalised to a certain stage and most sides at the top of the non-league pyramid are full-time professionals. 

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5 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

I’d be interested to know a non-League cup tournament that sees sides travel 650 miles (round trip) midweek for a game. 

Hence: most.

But any FA Vase or Trophy replay risks that

EDIT

Should add, I'm not saying it's right to make part-time players travel that distance just that it shows up a huge issue with our limited ability to organise and that we don't have the range of professional clubs that it can, from the outside, look like we have

Edited by gingerjon

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Teams have the opportunity to decide whether they play replays in that tournament, I’m certain it’s regionalised to a certain stage and most sides at the top of the non-league pyramid are full-time professionals. 

I can't argue with that (though my full-time club tend to play the 'kids' in the FAT). I wonder what Hunslet's excuse is?

Edited by Hopping Mad

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16 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

I’d be interested to know a non-League cup tournament that sees sides travel 650 miles (round trip) midweek for a game. 

FA Vase, FA Trophy, NPL Cup etc. 

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7 minutes ago, Eddie said:

FA Vase, FA Trophy, NPL Cup etc. 

As I’ve said, there’s a choice whether replays go ahead in the first two tournaments (teams choose), both tournaments are regionalised up to a point and most of the top tier National League sides are professional these days. A quick look at the NPL Challenge Cup doesn’t seem to show too many (any, in fact) with 
journeys close to 650 miles. 

Just because it happens, it also doesn’t mean it’s right either. 

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54 minutes ago, Hopping Mad said:

I see that piece has the first and second round draws both taking place on March 18. Is that right?

As you say, it's a shame so many opt out, although I can understand the non-heartlands clubs not bothering.

Yes, it's being done as a double draw. A great idea and one I'd like to see replicated for the Challenge Cup draws, especially rounds 3/4/5 where there isn't much of a gap between rounds.

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1 hour ago, marklaspalmas said:

I think it's a shame that only 17 of 25 eligible clubs have entered this competition. Not sure why that is.

1. No prize money.

2. Games having to be played mid week, it’s ok if you are only a few miles down the road, if you have a 3 or 4 hour drive there and then the same back, it’s not what you want to be doing after work.

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18 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

1. No prize money.

2. Games having to be played mid week, it’s ok if you are only a few miles down the road, if you have a 3 or 4 hour drive there and then the same back, it’s not what you want to be doing after work.

1. The players are professional. The clubs charge entrance money to the spectators. The ultimate reward for two clubs is to play at Wembley.

2. This is a weak argument. Only the 2nd round is scheduled for midweek. The other rounds are set to be played on the same weekends as the latter rounds of the CC. Of course, Bardford showed last years the problems that can cause. But possibly maybe having to play a single midweek away game in a whole season is an excuse for pulling out? Poor show.

 

 

Edited by marklaspalmas
typos
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1 hour ago, Hopping Mad said:

By my reckoning, the non-participants are Broncos, Coventry, Hunslet, Skolars, Toulouse, North Wales, West Wales and Workington.

I dont think its a co-incidence that other than Hunslet all those teams would lose significant amounts of money to travel etc if they were in the competition, money none of them have.

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