Jump to content

Recommended Posts

31 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

Because if he goes to the clubs that are being talked about seriously (Bulldogs and Dragons) he'll be throwing a chance at success away for few grand more in the short term.

I don't have a problem with that, if money is his first priority I can't say I blame him, but it will effect his career and value in the long term if he is stuck in a team that's anchored to the bottom of the table.

Don’t agree with this at all . First of all it’s not a mortal blow to his career , lots of top rep players are in the lower echelons of the NRL , it’s such a loaded league . And secondly who says those teams are gonna be ‘ anchored to the bottom ‘ ? The NRL can be pretty fluid year to year and the Bulldogs are spending big for 2021 and beyond , while the Dragons can easily be a top 8 side , have good systems and usually a fair few rep players . They just need a new coach

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Don’t agree with this at all . First of all it’s not a mortal blow to his career , lots of top rep players are in the lower echelons of the NRL , it’s such a loaded league . And secondly who says those teams are gonna be ‘ anchored to the bottom ‘ ? The NRL can be pretty fluid year to year and the Bulldogs are spending big for 2021 and beyond , while the Dragons can easily be a top 8 side , have good systems and usually a fair few rep players . They just need a new coach

Indeed. Jonathan Thurston left Grand Final winning Canterbury in 2004 for the Cowboys who had finished 7th and 11th in 2004 and 2003. Worked out ok for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Indeed. Jonathan Thurston left Grand Final winning Canterbury in 2004 for the Cowboys who had finished 7th and 11th in 2004 and 2003. Worked out ok for him.

Hodgson , Whitehead , Graham and Big Sam all went to clubs who’d finished that season outside the top 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

Indeed. Jonathan Thurston left Grand Final winning Canterbury in 2004 for the Cowboys who had finished 7th and 11th in 2004 and 2003. Worked out ok for him.

100%. The NRL is one of closest sporting competition in the world. 

In 2018 Parramatta and Manly were last and second last respectively. They finished 5th and 6th in 2019. There both now rated as one of the contenders for 2020.

Fyi - a Bulldogs foward pack of Dylan Napa, Luke Thompson, Josh Jackson, John Bateman, Raymond Faitala Mariner, Adam Elliot etc would be pretty handy in my opinion.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, DavidM said:

Why?

Because John Bateman is now playing in a top quality team, one of the top four in the NRL. If he moves to a lesser team, like Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs, just to increase his salary from $600,000 to $750,000 or maybe $800,000,  he will never enjoy playing in a Grand Final again. I think that if he negotiates, he might be able to get Canberra to upgrade his salary to $650,000 or even $700,000. If that happens he should ignore his greedy manager Isaac Moses, and stay in Canberra. Otherwise he will end up a little richer but much more miserable.

Edited by Manfred Mann

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

Because John Bateman is now playing in a top quality team, one of the top four in the NRL. If he moves to a lesser team, like Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs, just to increase his salary from $600,000 to $750,000 or maybe $800,000,  he will never enjoy playing in a Grand Final again. I think that if he negotiates, he might be able to get Canberra to upgrade his salary to $650,000 or even $700,000. If that happens he should ignore his greedy manager Isaac Moses, and stay in Canberra. Otherwise he will end up a little richer but much more miserable.

Managers jobs are to maximise their players contract and benefits.

They can negotiate those deals in many ways, some are professional and well respected by the Clubs.

Others are basically grubs and bottom feeders.

It is up to the players who they engage as their Managers and how they want  them to go about their business and representation.

 


Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Listening to Hooper on the podcast this morning he is saying there are contradictions in what JB was saying last year, to this.  He also thinks it was the wrong time to issue the statement, in that JB was looking around.

Seems the agent, Moses, has got a contract to get him more money and he’s going for it.  Hooper was quite confident JB will not be with them next year but the interviewer, Geyer??,  is indicating he would be better with the group of English lads and the CR team.

IMO John needs to take control of this agent or the decision might be taken swiftly out of his hands.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

Because John Bateman is now playing in a top quality team, one of the top four in the NRL. If he moves to a lesser team, like Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs, just to increase his salary from $600,000 to $750,000 or maybe $800,000,  he will never enjoy playing in a Grand Final again. I think that if he negotiates, he might be able to get Canberra to upgrade his salary to $650,000 or even $700,000. If that happens he should ignore his greedy manager Isaac Moses, and stay in Canberra. Otherwise he will end up a little richer but much more miserable.

The Raiders may have been a top 4 team last year but they have missed out on the playoffs three times in the last five seasons.  They need a period of significant consistency ala Roosters and Storm to be considered one of the very best teams.

The NRL is so competitive that two or three quality signings for the Bulldogs could easily see them at the same level as the Raiders.  And these don't have to be big names necessarily, look at how much of a difference Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad made to the Raiders last year after coming from the Warriors reserve grade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

The Raiders may have been a top 4 team last year but they have missed out on the playoffs three times in the last five seasons.  They need a period of significant consistency ala Roosters and Storm to be considered one of the very best teams.

The NRL is so competitive that two or three quality signings for the Bulldogs could easily see them at the same level as the Raiders.  And these don't have to be big names necessarily, look at how much of a difference Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad made to the Raiders last year after coming from the Warriors reserve grade.

The Canberra Raiders have a stable side this year, with no losses from their successful 2019 season, and only the acquisition of George Williams at the expense of Aiden Sezer. The team has already shown excellent form in the first two rounds. The Sydney Roosters have lost Cooper Cronk and Latrell Mitchell, both of whom are irreplaceable. That is why the Canberra Raiders are deserved favourites to win this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

The Canberra Raiders have a stable side this year, with no losses from their successful 2019 season, and only the acquisition of George Williams at the expense of Aiden Sezer. The team has already shown excellent form in the first two rounds. The Sydney Roosters have lost Cooper Cronk and Latrell Mitchell, both of whom are irreplaceable. That is why the Canberra Raiders are deserved favourites to win this year.

I agree the Raiders are a good shout this year but I thought we were talking about the career of 26 year old John Bateman in which case my 5 year time frame is much more relevant than the first 2 rounds of the NRL this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 23/05/2020 at 23:04, DavidM said:

Don’t agree with this at all . First of all it’s not a mortal blow to his career , lots of top rep players are in the lower echelons of the NRL , it’s such a loaded league .

I never said it would be a mortal blow to his career... Just that it would effect his value, because it will.

On 23/05/2020 at 23:04, DavidM said:

The NRL can be pretty fluid year to year and the Bulldogs are spending big for 2021 and beyond , while the Dragons can easily be a top 8 side , have good systems and usually a fair few rep players . They just need a new coach

Neither the Bulldogs or Dragons have the spines to be really competitive, and neither of them have been able to attract strong players to fix that problem yet.

As long as Mary is at the Dragons I have little hope for them, and the Bulldogs are at the start of a rebuild. Unless they get lucky neither team is going to be truly competitive for at least a few years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 23/05/2020 at 23:17, Dunbar said:

Indeed. Jonathan Thurston left Grand Final winning Canterbury in 2004 for the Cowboys who had finished 7th and 11th in 2004 and 2003. Worked out ok for him.

Thuston played in one of the most important positions on the field. John Batman is a second row, one of the best second rowers in the world, but still just a second rower.

To be truly competitive (i.e. competing in the top 4) you need very good halves, but you can get away with having just solid second rowers.

If Bateman goes to the Dogs or Dragons he won't fix their real problems, their spines. 

Also, back in 04 Thurston was a massively underrated player, that very few people thought would amount to anything, and he only played in the 04 grand final because Steve Price was injured. If he stayed at the Bulldogs he would have continued to be the backup half.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Dunbar said:

The Raiders may have been a top 4 team last year but they have missed out on the playoffs three times in the last five seasons.  They need a period of significant consistency ala Roosters and Storm to be considered one of the very best teams.

The Raiders massively under achieved in 2017 and 2018.

Take 2018 for example; they lost 8 games by 4 points or less, many of those were extremely unlucky. If they had won 5 of those they'd have been in the finials, 6 they'd have been in the top four.

The team underachieved in 2017 and 2018, and since then the club has improved the team across the board, particularly in the spine. Sure they could be unlucky again, but comparing the current team to those of 17-18 is silly.

Also, the Raiders will never have a significant period of consistency like the Roosters or Storm because we don't have a salary cap sombrero like they do (most clubs don't). Canberra doesn't have the market to manipulate 3rd parties the way they do, so to achieve what they do the Raiders would have to either convince most of their players to play for unders, or systematically cheat the cap.

16 hours ago, Dunbar said:

The NRL is so competitive that two or three quality signings for the Bulldogs could easily see them at the same level as the Raiders.  And these don't have to be big names necessarily, look at how much of a difference Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad made to the Raiders last year after coming from the Warriors reserve grade.

Again, what is the difference between CHK and Bateman; one plays in the spine and the other doesn't.

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Thuston played in one of the most important positions on the field. John Batman is a second row, one of the best second rowers in the world, but still just a second rower.

To be truly competitive (i.e. competing in the top 4) you need very good halves, but you can get away with having just solid second rowers.

If Bateman goes to the Dogs or Dragons he won't fix their real problems, their spines. 

Also, back in 04 Thurston was a massively underrated player, that very few people thought would amount to anything, and he only played in the 04 grand final because Steve Price was injured. If he stayed at the Bulldogs he would have continued to be the backup half.

 

3 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Again, what is the difference between CHK and Bateman; one plays in the spine and the other doesn't.

You are missing my point.

I am not saying Bateman going to the Bulldogs or Dragons will turn them into a top 4 team (although he would make them better).

The spine of the team is critical, but the Thurston and CHK examples show how teams can find very good players which help to turn them into Premiership contenders... again without particularly having to find big name signings. 

My overall point in this discussion is that none of us know how good the Raiders, Dragons or Bulldogs will be in three years time and the assumption that a move to one the latter two will damage Bateman's career is wide of the mark. I think the Raiders improvement from 10th place finishes to Grand Finalists in three years actually proves my point.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

 

You are missing my point.

I am not saying Bateman going to the Bulldogs or Dragons will turn them into a top 4 team (although he would make them better).

The spine of the team is critical, but the Thurston and CHK examples show how teams can find very good players which help to turn them into Premiership contenders... again without particularly having to find big name signings. 

My overall point in this discussion is that none of us know how good the Raiders, Dragons or Bulldogs will be in three years time and the assumption that a move to one the latter two will damage Bateman's career is wide of the mark. I think the Raiders improvement from 10th place finishes to Grand Finalists in three years actually proves my point.

If the Bulldogs or Dragons spend $1mil a season, more or less, on a second rower before they've got a solid spine, then we can be sure that they aren't going to be competing for a Grand Final in the next three years...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John Bateman finding out the hard way that in the Goldfish Bowl of Rugby League down under a media beat up can be spun a Loooooong way....


?

Quote

The dominant ideas in society are always and everywhere the ideas of the ruling class. And always and everywhere they portray us as stupid, untrustworthy with bad motives. Show us respect sir. We gave you everything progressive there is. We gave you democracy. We demand some too.

 
Eddie Demsey RMT
 
Quote

There were 17.4m people who voted to leave the European Union.

"Any attempt to try to cast their vote aside, as if they didn’t mean it or didn’t understand the consequences, whereas everybody else did, is a bit of a slur on the individuals who took the time to vote, many of them for the first time

Ian Lavery - Labour party chair  - 29th March 2019

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Great Dane said:

If the Bulldogs or Dragons spend $1mil a season, more or less, on a second rower before they've got a solid spine, then we can be sure that they aren't going to be competing for a Grand Final in the next three years...

We both know it doesn't work like that.

The Raiders added Bateman to their squad before half of their spine (Nicoll-Klokstad at full back and Wighton at 6) had played in their respective Grand Final positions.

If a team get a chance to sign the Dally M second rower of the year they will take it. Not before they build out the rest of the squad or after... but concurrently.  . and signing quality players is a sign of a team's ambition and attracts more quality.

Building a quality NRL squad is an ongoing process.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John Bateman on Sky this afternoon saying that he hasn't asked to leave but will talk to other clubs if there's a problem wwith the Canberra salary structure. He reckons he'll be back in around three weeks so we'll see then whether he can be the player he was before he had his injury.

If I was him, I'd be looking for a guarantee from a club that he can play loose forward ... easier on a dodgy shoulder than playing second row.


Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...