A Letter from the Chairman.

[Harry Stottle]

12 minutes ago, del capo said:

Harry I think that Wigan now own their own 3000  ( at present ) seater stadium next door to the DW.

Do you believe that Leigh will continue to be able to pay Wigan Leisure the rent or will they get turfed out by the soccer ladies?

Leigh will remain at the LSV soccer ladies or not must say I was a bit peeved early season when we had to move games to accommodate them because of the Ladies FA cup the upside is, the ground works that are done every June results in one of the best playing surfaces in the RL. 

PS if the Wigan crowds keep falling at the same rate, they will be able to move into next door comfortably in 7 years time.

[del capo]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Leigh will remain at the LSV soccer ladies or not must say I was a bit peeved early season when we had to move games to accommodate them because of the Ladies FA cup the upside is, the ground works that are done every June results in one of the best playing surfaces in the RL. 

Good to know.

If Leigh are ever struggling for a venue I'm sure  Ian Lenegan would let you use the Arena . It's big enough for your usual crowd. ( once they've worked out the bus route )..…..

[Gooleboy]

1 hour ago, del capo said:

Harry I think that Wigan now own their own 3000  ( at present ) seater stadium next door to the DW.

Do you believe that Leigh will continue to be able to pay Wigan Leisure the rent or will they get turfed out by the soccer ladies?

Haven't the local Council donated the 3k Stadium to Wigan?

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Who actually owns it then. Its certainly not leased or rented and according to Wikipedia the club own it. They certainly get all revenues from it. It maybe one of the many holding companies they use but certainly are not tennants. 

Not sure , yes they do get all revenues from it , and also pay for any improvements , the health centre mentioned in the article previously was under construction at the time of my visit , I asked Mr Gatcliffe if it was a supporters bar , but he told me it was a health centre that would provide income 52 weeks a year , much better than a 20 day a year ' pub ' 

He definitely stated they didn't own it , and could not use it as collateral to borrow against , they were not allowed to put any debt against it 

That was 16 years ago , so it might have changed , but as they ran it , made all the income from it and had complete control of it , why buy it ?

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, del capo said:

Harry I think that Wigan now own their own 3000  ( at present ) seater stadium next door to the DW.

Do you believe that Leigh will continue to be able to pay Wigan Leisure the rent or will they get turfed out by the soccer ladies?

Leigh pay on a match basis , no play , no pay 

[M j M]

The HJ Stadium is indeed owned by Warrington Sports Holdings; the team operates through the subsidiary The Warrington Football Club Limited but that shouldn't make any difference for borrowing purposes (not that they are likely to need significant third party borrowings I'd imagine).

[del capo]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Leigh pay on a match basis , no play , no pay 

And the price ?  So they rent just like most best organised clubs ?

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, del capo said:

Good to know.

If Leigh are ever struggling for a venue I'm sure  Ian Lenegan would let you use the Arena . It's big enough for your usual crowd. ( once they've worked out the bus route )..…..

Ouch! Supposed I deserved that one though

[GUBRATS]

7 hours ago, M j M said:

The HJ Stadium is indeed owned by Warrington Sports Holdings; the team operates through the subsidiary The Warrington Football Club Limited but that shouldn't make any difference for borrowing purposes (not that they are likely to need significant third party borrowings I'd imagine).

Mr Gatcliffe offered the knowledge , I didn't ask , he stated no debt could be placed on it by the Rugby club , it is that we were discussing 

Warrington have a brilliant deal 

[RP London]

7 hours ago, SL17 said:

I take your opinion on board. But SL clubs are paid monthly.

To be fair i would be surprised if ALL employees are paid on a salaried monthly basis as you are looking at a huge range of employees.

 

[RP London]

7 hours ago, SL17 said:

It’s not loose change.Its money he knows he’s getting back.

Will we see a similar statement once the funds are returned to his account?

Doubt it.

The point being he had another option but chose not to take it. For some reason! But crying poverty and not taking the other option shows he’s in a good position. 
 

If you have 172 staff of which 162 are furloughed then again why does the business need  £500k for cash flow given we are in the middle of June now.

I think its unfair to say he is crying poverty, it doesnt strike me as that at all, it seems to simply be an honest appraisal of where they are at the moment. There are loads of costs to run businesses not just staff and they have to be paid to be able to continue going. Most will be a simple cash flow issue and if you can afford to put the moment in for more than a few weeks then i can understand why you do that rather than taking the loan. The loan has stipulations around it, one of which is not using it to pay wages. If you can afford to put your own money in for an indefinite amount of time then i can totally understand why he has done that instead as he has carte blanche on what to do with it. 

 

[M j M]

7 hours ago, SL17 said:

It’s not loose change.Its money he knows he’s getting back.

Will we see a similar statement once the funds are returned to his account?

Doubt it.

The point being he had another option but chose not to take it. For some reason! But crying poverty and not taking the other option shows he’s in a good position. 
 

If you have 172 staff of which 162 are furloughed then again why does the business need  £500k for cash flow given we are in the middle of June now.

Wages and salaries aren't the only cash outflow.

The biggest challenge the business I work for has had is that, like all businesses, it's just not designed to operate with nothing coming in. So we have several £m of creditors falling due for payment which was scheduled to be paid by income coming in as normal. If the creditor stack still needs paying but the cash you use to pay the creditors doesn't come in as you'd forecast then you have to work out what to do - most businesses are just not paying the creditors for now but some of them just do need paying. Hence even though the government furlough scheme addresses one of the main costs businesses are still struggling.

Wigan's not a great example as they always need money from the owner to survive but even for sustainable businesses this is a liquidity issue until they can get going again and get the working capital back in kilter - hence these short term government loans are very useful, if you qualify for them, as they inject liquidity which has kept some of the wheels still turning for businesses which are otherwise viable.

[Exiled Wiganer]

My point about not owning our ground was prompted by reading McManus’ excellent equivalent letter. Generally, if you own a ground and make money on it, it is a useful asset. If you can’t use it, and have outgoings it becomes a burden. Temporarily, but we are only one clever Oxford lad or lass away from waking up to find this will be all over in no time, at which point balance sheets matter again. I just highlighted it as an odd quirk among many just now. 

[Alffi 7]

I'm not sure of the technicalities at Warrington, but last company accounts had Fixed assets of around £15m, this must surely include the stadium as they don't own anything else of note. (They built an indoor training barn for £750k but that's it I think).

 

It does make comment that the group had loans of around £1m which were secured against a debenture (so not against any collateral such as the stadium) my understanding of that is that it is secured against the creditworthiness of the owner, in this instance I presume Simon Moran.

 

I'm not sure why the club couldn't secure loans against the stadium, seems strange to me.  The assets appear to be on the books and they are certainly taking all the income it provides. I think I remember the land being on a 999 year lease, not sure if that has anything to do with it, but then we have a house on leasehold, doesn't mean we can't borrow against it. 

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, Alffi 7 said:

I'm not sure of the technicalities at Warrington, but last company accounts had Fixed assets of around £15m, this must surely include the stadium as they don't own anything else of note. (They built an indoor training barn for £750k but that's it I think).

 

It does make comment that the group had loans of around £1m which were secured against a debenture (so not against any collateral such as the stadium) my understanding of that is that it is secured against the creditworthiness of the owner, in this instance I presume Simon Moran.

 

I'm not sure why the club couldn't secure loans against the stadium, seems strange to me.  The assets appear to be on the books and they are certainly taking all the income it provides. I think I remember the land being on a 999 year lease, not sure if that has anything to do with it, but then we have a house on leasehold, doesn't mean we can't borrow against it. 

Again , this was 16 years ago , I took it to mean that to prevent any future ' dodgy ' club owner from using the stadium to ' milk ' the club , so if Mr Moran has since purchased the stadium , then fair enough , as I said Mr Gatcliffe offered the info 

[M j M]

5 hours ago, SL17 said:

All businesses run differently. As for having to pay creditors without money coming in, but yet saving on expenditure of wages on probably 90 days or whatever shows the company you work for as not being viable to start with.

Basically you are saying without furlough your company would be history in 3 months. All because your company has creditors on 90 day terms or whatever.

No, the business is perfectly viable. Paying off all creditors with no income coming in and no ability to sell the stock those creditors bought destroys your working capital balance. Very few businesses keep enough cash in the bank to cover the entire balance of trade creditors just in case there is suddenly zero income for three months, that's not how it works in the real world.

[Rupert Prince]

On 16/06/2020 at 17:12, Lowdesert said:

Very Parkyesque that one Harry.

His comments are miserable. In the best traditions of all that's bad about our game.

[del capo]

  Our club owners are largely self made men who do  not  expect profit from their love of our game. You simply cannot make money out of it.

 Good to all of them I say

[Harry Stottle]

14 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

His comments are miserable. In the best traditions of all that's bad about our game.

Don't know if that is me or Parky you are referring to?