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Tommygilf

ISC pulling out?

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From what I've seen of cas fans walking about Oxen doesn't look any worse that Oneills Kukri Hummel or any of the other brands involved in RL...... not as good as ISC/Canterbury but they've gone.

Brand perception is massive.......Leeds sold 300,000 kits in a couple of days because it was Adidas.

If they had stayed with kappa you could probably knock a third off that even with promotion.

RL needs more big brands because the casual observer knows who Nike Adidas and Umbro are and has never heard of Oxen, Oneills etc.

You the associate the sport with that brand of stars

I guess it's short term bottom line vs longer term perception of the sport.

For example I expected TWP to show up with an all singing and dancing Nike kit in SL...... but they ended up with BLK who also did Sheffield Eagles

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14 minutes ago, tuutaisrambo said:

From what I've seen of cas fans walking about Oxen doesn't look any worse that Oneills Kukri Hummel or any of the other brands involved in RL...... not as good as ISC/Canterbury but they've gone.

Brand perception is massive.......Leeds sold 300,000 kits in a couple of days because it was Adidas.

If they had stayed with kappa you could probably knock a third off that even with promotion.

RL needs more big brands because the casual observer knows who Nike Adidas and Umbro are and has never heard of Oxen, Oneills etc.

You the associate the sport with that brand of stars

I guess it's short term bottom line vs longer term perception of the sport.

For example I expected TWP to show up with an all singing and dancing Nike kit in SL...... but they ended up with BLK who also did Sheffield Eagles

nowt wrong with Eagles 😄

BLK also did England.. remember.. 

on the quality front.. I have a hummel England top.. the neck is awful and because of that i rarely wear it (and we dont have any internationals to give me an excuse.. grrr) but i wouldnt write them off, it was just badly done.. if they do it again then i would be annoyed.. 

dont judge a company by the errors it makes judge them by how they fix them (or not) everyone makes mistakes or gets let down.. but do they sort it out and fix the error.

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Its one of the 4 main revenue streams for clubs and with Covid affecting everything else it is potentially the only one clubs may be able to rely on securely.

Fans complain about ticket prices but spend loads on shirts?  It's just a shirt, who cares who makes it? I can see that its interesting that it has a good design (but if a club chooses not to veto a rubbish one, its their look out) and clubs get a mark up for selling them.

I did not realise we had so many Gok Wans... !   😃

(to be fair, I always buy stuff just as it's  going out off fashion)

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59 minutes ago, EastLondonMike said:

I think you need to give them a chance Tommy. They are by no stretch of the imagination in the same leagues as the big sports brands, but im sure they can produce something decent. The teaser video on their instagram page shows a glimpse of some products for 2021, and what i can see looks to be of a decent enough standard. 
 



The link you shared is just a poly t-shirt thats been badly styled. It's a £25 poly tee, and not supposed to be anything more.

Oxen seem to have ambition to grow also, which is a positive thing.

I suppose, but what it does show is that they've had the unusual chance to make a good impression before they become kit supplier. I don't think anyone has bought this cheap stuff so unsurprisingly little has been said about it but the Burrow shirt on the other hand has been rubbish (and thats if you actually got it).

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10 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Fans complain about ticket prices but spend loads on shirts?  It's just a shirt, who cares who makes it? I can see that its interesting that it has a good design (but if a club chooses not to veto a rubbish one, its their look out) and clubs get a mark up for selling them.

I did not realise we had so many Gok Wans... !   😃

(to be fair, I always buy stuff just as it's  going out off fashion)

I'd wager your last line is telling! 😉

People will spend loads on a shirt that is worth it and brand reputation is a major part of that. Its also been increasingly apparent that the best kit designers have sold and marketed their shirts as fashion items as well as sportswear.

A few more Gok Wans might help! 

Edit: I think this is a pretty poor design but typifies my point.

Edited by Tommygilf

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14 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

It's just a shirt, who cares who makes it?

A lot of people do and in every sport. 

See, I get the argument Rhinos are a big catch for a company who will no doubt see themselves as up and coming in this area. I remember Liverpool signing with the relatively unknown (in football anyway) Warrior a few years back. But that made commercial sense for LFC to do that because Warrior paid them a ridiculous amount of money. RL and Leeds specifically in this case seem to get neither the 'big' name or bumper money of the 'lesser' name. Unless they create the best jersey Leeds have had in the past 10-12 years I see no way they'll hit the same numbers they have been with ISC next season. 

Edited by hunsletgreenandgold
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Just now, hunsletgreenandgold said:

A lot of people do and in every sport. 

See, I get the argument Rhinos are a big catch for a company who will know doubt see themselves as up and coming in this area. I remember Liverpool signing with the relatively unknown (in football anyway) Warrior a few years back. But that made commercial sense for LFC to do that because Warrior paid them a ridiculous amount of money. RL and Leeds specifically in this case seem to get neither the 'big' name or bumper money of the 'lesser' name. Unless they create the best jersey Leeds have had in the past 10-12 years I see no way they'll hit the same numbers they have been with ISC next season. 

This 1000% 

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Phew!

I can see why a shirt needs to be good looking.  But who cares who makes it.  An Australian shirt still looks good, and they never really change the style, and it would not matter who the manufacturer was.

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6 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Phew!

I can see why a shirt needs to be good looking.  But who cares who makes it.  An Australian shirt still looks good, and they never really change the style, and it would not matter who the manufacturer was.

If you're paying 60 quid for it you want a nice feeling quality item

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11 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Phew!

I can see why a shirt needs to be good looking.  But who cares who makes it.  An Australian shirt still looks good, and they never really change the style, and it would not matter who the manufacturer was.

They stuck with flipping between Classic and Canterbury for the past 30 or so years - two decent names in the rugby world. 

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Brand recognition is more important than ever now.

Brands that no one has ever heard of are fine if the latest rapper/pop star promotes them on instagram as the news coolest thing..

If you want to look like a legit top level sport you need the likes of Nike Adidas Reebok Puma etc involved.

Oxen, O’Neills etc are fine but they only appeal to the already converted.

If Leeds Rhinos revealed a new deal with Nike similar to what Saracens have sales would go through the roof.

Oxen is just the same kit Leeds Carnegie had before it went bust

Edited by tuutaisrambo
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54 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Phew!

I can see why a shirt needs to be good looking.  But who cares who makes it.  An Australian shirt still looks good, and they never really change the style, and it would not matter who the manufacturer was.

I'd argue who makes it is more important........Especially to a younger demographic.

A lot of the new Nike football kits are based on old trainer designs........... sounds stupid but they sell like hot cakes.

Doesn't matter how lovely the design of your jersey is to some if it's made by Macron.


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2 hours ago, RP London said:

nowt wrong with Eagles 😄

BLK also did England.. remember.. 

I reckon landing the England RL deal is probably equivalent to signing a bottom end SL club.

Higher profile but only for 1 month per year 😁


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2 hours ago, EastLondonMike said:

I think you need to give them a chance Tommy. They are by no stretch of the imagination in the same leagues as the big sports brands, but im sure they can produce something decent. The teaser video on their instagram page shows a glimpse of some products for 2021, and what i can see looks to be of a decent enough standard. 
 



The link you shared is just a poly t-shirt thats been badly styled. It's a £25 poly tee, and not supposed to be anything more.

Oxen seem to have ambition to grow also, which is a positive thing.

Could have least got their video ratios right for instagram though!

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I will be really disappointed if ISC do pull out completely which will of course mean us losing them. Having just looked at a bit of gear for various teams oxen supply for its making me appreciate the ISC stuff a lot more, especially the training gear.

£30 for a Sheffield training top which is just a plain black poly t-shirt with a Sheffield badge on one side and an oxen logo on the other, basically just a plain black polo which would be a fiver in a different shop. £30 for a training tee from Widnes that is again a poly job with some random, slanted red thin hoops that is clearly just a template that has basically nothing to do with Widnes. 

If we were to move away from ISC and some the fantastic training and fashion gear and go to someone like oxen or o'neills I won't be investing anywhere near as much money as normal into the club. I buy the home shirt every year regardless cos I have a huge collection of shirts and I normally buy a couple of t-shirts or polos so probably spend about £110 on clothes each year but with designs like I've just looked at then that will be cut right back to just £45 or so for the shirt. 

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4 hours ago, tuutaisrambo said:

From what I've seen of cas fans walking about Oxen doesn't look any worse that Oneills Kukri Hummel or any of the other brands involved in RL...... not as good as ISC/Canterbury but they've gone.

Brand perception is massive.......Leeds sold 300,000 kits in a couple of days because it was Adidas.

If they had stayed with kappa you could probably knock a third off that even with promotion.

RL needs more big brands because the casual observer knows who Nike Adidas and Umbro are and has never heard of Oxen, Oneills etc.

You the associate the sport with that brand of stars

I guess it's short term bottom line vs longer term perception of the sport.

For example I expected TWP to show up with an all singing and dancing Nike kit in SL...... but they ended up with BLK who also did Sheffield Eagles

But the problem with RL is that clubs buy from 'who you know' so I doubt they even test the market in a formal tender process. It's all mates etc. - even the guy at Oxen is a former Rhinos employee so it was a done deal ages ago. Hardly surprising our clubs are small time thinking, you only need to see their actions elsewhere

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59 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

But the problem with RL is that clubs buy from 'who you know' so I doubt they even test the market in a formal tender process. It's all mates etc. - even the guy at Oxen is a former Rhinos employee so it was a done deal ages ago. Hardly surprising our clubs are small time thinking, you only need to see their actions elsewhere

Its all jobs for the boys, except unlike rugby union and cricket, our boys aren't MDs at multinational companies or bankers...

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I another weird twist of this new arrangement. It appears that Rhinos stuff is being sold in the physical Elite Pro Sports shop in Doncaster. Meaning currently you can't buy Leeds Rhinos merchandise anywhere in the centre of Leeds but you can in Frenchgate Shopping centre, Doncaster...

 

(not blaming Elite Pro for this one but still)

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34 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I another weird twist of this new arrangement. It appears that Rhinos stuff is being sold in the physical Elite Pro Sports shop in Doncaster. Meaning currently you can't buy Leeds Rhinos merchandise anywhere in the centre of Leeds but you can in Frenchgate Shopping centre, Doncaster...

 

(not blaming Elite Pro for this one but still)

Do Leeds have a club shop in Leeds City centre? 

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Just now, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Do Leeds have a club shop in Leeds City centre? 

Not for about 10 years. In the meantime the new Leeds United owner made it a priority to open 3 new club shops (2 in the city centre and one in the biggest OOT shopping centre) and to have a presence at the Airport...

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Not for about 10 years. In the meantime the new Leeds United owner made it a priority to open 3 new club shops (2 in the city centre and one in the biggest OOT shopping centre) and to have a presence at the Airport...

So you can only buy Leeds stuff at Headingley or in Doncaster? That seems daft, I'm sure they could find a cheap enough shop unit in the city centre to set up, doesn't have to be a big place. Any shop would at least increase the teams presence a little. Is there any reason why a shop hasn't been opened for so long? 

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25 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

So you can only buy Leeds stuff at Headingley or in Doncaster? That seems daft, I'm sure they could find a cheap enough shop unit in the city centre to set up, doesn't have to be a big place. Any shop would at least increase the teams presence a little. Is there any reason why a shop hasn't been opened for so long? 

Absolutely. I've always thought it was essential but as I've posted on these pages before we've grown lax and in some cases withdrawn from the city altogether. I'd imagine its just short term cheaper to not have one - forgetting the long term costs of a lack of visibility in the city.

After a slightly more than "just a couple" in the pub during my second year of uni, me and a mate came up with an idea to have all the Leeds based sports teams (plus or minus LUFC) in 1 shop in the city centre. Rhinos and Yorkshire cricket would be the primary retailers (in the absence of LUFC) and the city's Netball and Ice Hockey teams would be amogst the teams stocked. There's also scope for Hunslet and even Yorkshire/Leeds Carnegie/Tykes too. Obviously it wouldn't be full club shops but the essentials, Kits, Balls, hoodies, tops etc. I think even on reflection its a pretty good idea for a shop in the big new shopping centre, Trinity.

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5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Absolutely. I've always thought it was essential but as I've posted on these pages before we've grown lax and in some cases withdrawn from the city altogether. I'd imagine its just short term cheaper to not have one - forgetting the long term costs of a lack of visibility in the city.

After a slightly more than "just a couple" in the pub during my second year of uni, me and a mate came up with an idea to have all the Leeds based sports teams (plus or minus LUFC) in 1 shop in the city centre. Rhinos and Yorkshire cricket would be the primary retailers (in the absence of LUFC) and the city's Netball and Ice Hockey teams would be amogst the teams stocked. There's also scope for Hunslet and even Yorkshire/Leeds Carnegie/Tykes too. Obviously it wouldn't be full club shops but the essentials, Kits, Balls, hoodies, tops etc. I think even on reflection its a pretty good idea for a shop in the big new shopping centre, Trinity.

I must say I do like that idea, every team getting exposure and it would be in a larger and more prominent unit. Would be good to have a box office in the shop as well and sell tickets for every team.

I often think one of the reasons why some people don't attend games is because buying tickets is so complicated these days. I don't know about Leeds but for Hull you have to buy online and print your ticket off so if you're like me and don't have a printer you've got to find someone with one or go down the library which is a faff. I'm not sure if you can even buy tickets at the stadium anymore, even if you can you've got to go all the way down to the stadium to do that and work the self service machines, another faff. No tickets can be bought on the day anymore. 

Anyway as I say, your idea is a very good one! 👍

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22 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I must say I do like that idea, every team getting exposure and it would be in a larger and more prominent unit. Would be good to have a box office in the shop as well and sell tickets for every team.

I often think one of the reasons why some people don't attend games is because buying tickets is so complicated these days. I don't know about Leeds but for Hull you have to buy online and print your ticket off so if you're like me and don't have a printer you've got to find someone with one or go down the library which is a faff. I'm not sure if you can even buy tickets at the stadium anymore, even if you can you've got to go all the way down to the stadium to do that and work the self service machines, another faff. No tickets can be bought on the day anymore. 

Anyway as I say, your idea is a very good one! 👍

That was my thought tbh, as it stands none of these teams have a presence in the city centre which seems ridiculous for particularly the Rhinos and Yorkshire. The Leeds United ownership realised it's importance a couple of years ago within only months of taking over.

I think what you describe is a problem particular to Hull and the KCom. Is it something to do with the Allams? The Rhinos are quite good for ticketing to be honest with cash turnstiles, collectable tickets, season tickets, flexi season tickets, mailed tickets, printable tickets etc. 

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18 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That was my thought tbh, as it stands none of these teams have a presence in the city centre which seems ridiculous for particularly the Rhinos and Yorkshire. The Leeds United ownership realised it's importance a couple of years ago within only months of taking over.

I think what you describe is a problem particular to Hull and the KCom. Is it something to do with the Allams? The Rhinos are quite good for ticketing to be honest with cash turnstiles, collectable tickets, season tickets, flexi season tickets, mailed tickets, printable tickets etc. 

I will say I'm not the best person to ask about ticketing at the kcom cos I have a season pass so haven't bought an individual ticket in ages. I think the last time I bought a seperate ticket was in 2017 for the Leeds games ironically, which I took a German friend to. Usual Hull performance, Leeds put over 50 points on us. Back then I went to the ticket office and just bought a ticket. As I say, I think they've installed self-service machines since. As I said, you can buy online but have to print them off, I don't believe there's any collection on the day. Definitely no cash turnstiles anymore for home fans, scrapped them a few years ago when they installed self scan facilities, which is why you need your print off for the QR code, or barcode on your season pass. 

Friendly and magic weekend tickets do tend to get sold in the shop but only the stadium shop, not the city centre one, and if, like me, you live quite far out of the centre and get a bus into the middle it can be a little inconventient to walk to the ground and back into the centre, especially since Allam installed a gate across the footpath to the ground which is locked on non-matchdays, so you've got to go a longer way round, just to buy a ticket. I'm pretty certain you can't buy regular match tickets in the shop. If they put one of the self service ticket machines in the city centre shop it would be fantastic. We did at one point have a kiosk outside St Stephens shopping centre next to the train station which you were supposed to be able to buy tickets from but it was never open and that disappeared a couple of years back. 

Certainly all the modernising of the ticket system is to do with Allam cos he runs the stadium management company. I really don't see why we can't have cash turnstiles, it's not like we're gonna sell the place out, probably just a cost cutting exercise so they don't have to employ more people to man the turnstiles. Ask any Hull fan though, almost every single game the self scan machines malfunction and thousands of people are still coming into the ground with just minutes to go before the game. A lot of the time they just open the big gates and the stewards check people's tickets manually.

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