Scotland RL

[Sports Prophet]

49 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

The RFL are the governing body in England. Im pretty sure their strategy documents make no reference to growing the sport in Scotland. Scotland have their own governing body (Scotland Rugby League) which receives support from the RFL. It is Scotland Rugby League who are responsible for growing the game in Scotland and a pretty awful job they are doing.

It's a pretty convenient excuse to blame the RFL for everything but at a grassroots level they are doing good work across England. The community game outside the heartlands is growing and participation numbers are up. The women's, PDRL and Wheelchair Rugby are all growing year on year. 

 

46 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

I’m pretty sure the RFL have it documented that it’s their remit to foster (for want of a better word) the game in Great Britain and not just England.

You got it right Gom’, the RFL are responsible for GB, not just England.

GB has been the RFL’s responsibility since its inauguration OMC and it has done a pretty terrible job of it in most parts of the country for the best part of it’s history.

[Damien]

It is absolutely Scotland Rugby League's job to grow the sport in Scotland. That is their raison d'etre:

Scotland Rugby League is the governing body for rugby league in Scotland overseeing development and participation at all levels of the sport. Our aim is to provide opportunities for people of all ages to take part in the game while developing a strong competitive environment to support the development of our international players.

In 2008 the Great Britain international team separated into Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales. There were many reasons for this, some emotional, some rational, but all geared to further develop the game. 

https://www.scotlandrl.com/about-us/about-scotland-rugby-league/

They have completely failed in this and holding trials in Yorkshire and picking heritage players at under age level is a complete dereliction of duty. As is the case with Ireland. Its the easy option that gets the game no where.

Now I'm under no illusion that they are under resourced but they need to concentrate what they do have on developing the game in Scotland. If that means not being able to mix it with England and Wales then so be it. Most other nations in Europe are in the same boat anyway and Scotland, and again Ireland, should be concentrating on building underage teams that can compete with teams in the same situation.

[OriginalMrC]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

 

You got it right Gom’, the RFL are responsible for GB, not just England.

GB has been the RFL’s responsibility since its inauguration OMC and it has done a pretty terrible job of it in most parts of the country for the best part of it’s history.

Why have separate governing bodies then? Probably should just scrap Scotland RL if it's rhe RFLs responsibility.

 

[Gomersall]

2 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

Why have separate governing bodies then? Probably should just scrap Scotland RL if it's rhe RFLs responsibility.

 

I think it’s a historical thing that hasn’t been addressed since GB split into the four home nations.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

5 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

The RFL are the governing body in England. Im pretty sure their strategy documents make no reference to growing the sport in Scotland. Scotland have their own governing body (Scotland Rugby League) which receives support from the RFL. It is Scotland Rugby League who are responsible for growing the game in Scotland and a pretty awful job they are doing.

 

5 hours ago, Gomersall said:

I’m pretty sure the RFL have it documented that it’s their remit to foster (for want of a better word) the game in Great Britain and not just England.

It's not in their strategy documents, but it is - in their own words - part of their constitution

"The objects of the Rugby Football League as set out in Constitution are:

(a) to foster, govern, develop, organise and manage the Game, in respect of all age groups, at all levels and for both sexes, in Great Britain and Ireland"

https://www.rugby-league.com/governance/customer-charter

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

2 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

Why have separate governing bodies then? Probably should just scrap Scotland RL if it's rhe RFLs responsibility.

 

Perhaps to try and absolve themselves of responsibility? Instead, Scotland RL now get all the blame.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

3 hours ago, Damien said:

It is absolutely Scotland Rugby League's job to grow the sport in Scotland. That is their raison d'etre:

Scotland Rugby League is the governing body for rugby league in Scotland overseeing development and participation at all levels of the sport. Our aim is to provide opportunities for people of all ages to take part in the game while developing a strong competitive environment to support the development of our international players.

In 2008 the Great Britain international team separated into Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales. There were many reasons for this, some emotional, some rational, but all geared to further develop the game. 

https://www.scotlandrl.com/about-us/about-scotland-rugby-league/

They have completely failed in this and holding trials in Yorkshire and picking heritage players at under age level is a complete dereliction of duty. As is the case with Ireland. Its the easy option that gets the game no where.

Now I'm under no illusion that they are under resourced but they need to concentrate what they do have on developing the game in Scotland. If that means not being able to mix it with England and Wales then so be it. Most other nations in Europe are in the same boat anyway and Scotland, and again Ireland, should be concentrating on building underage teams that can compete with teams in the same situation.

This doesn't mean that it isn't the RFL's responsibility as well though

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

This doesn't mean that it isn't the RFL's responsibility as well though

It's not the RFL's responsibility, the whole point of setting up separate governing bodies was to take that away (not that the RFL did anything anyway). People in those countries are best placed to develop the game in those countries and it opens up funding/grants that otherwise is not possible. The RFL aren't even listed on the Sports Scotland website as the governing body, which is clearly Scotland Rugby League:

https://sportscotland.org.uk/sport-a-z/rugby-league

Whether the RFL have a role to play as the lead governing body in the northern hemisphere, and for their own benefit as much as anything, is a different discussion. I certainly think they do.

[langpark]

7 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Using heritage players in major competitions is not what is holding Scotland back. What is holding Scotland back is a lack of any strategy or governance from the RFL to grow the sport outside the M62 belt.

You are in denial. And you phrase so nicely you make it sound like a positive. You say "using heritage players", I would say "shafting local players". 

Look at Ireland. They shaft guys like Casey Dunne, who has been at it for years not only as a player, but also helped out in coaching capacities across Ireland. Guys like that are the future coaches and administrators, it would be in Ireland's best long-term interests to keep guys like that in the team, whe someone like Luke Keary decides he is Irish 2 weeks before the WC starts. 

Like I say, keep advocating for the "Luke Keary formula" if you want to, just don't be shocked when in 20 years from now nothing has gotten better. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

It's not the RFL's responsibility, the whole point of setting up separate governing bodies was to take that away (not that the RFL did anything anyway). People in those countries are best placed to develop the game in those countries and it opens up funding/grants that otherwise is not possible. The RFL aren't even listed on the Sports Scotland website as the governing body, which is clearly Scotland Rugby League:

https://sportscotland.org.uk/sport-a-z/rugby-league

Whether the RFL have a role to play as the lead governing body in the northern hemisphere, and for their own benefit as much as anything, is a different discussion. I certainly think they do.

And yet it's in the RFL's constitution.

[Damien]

Just now, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

And yet it's in the RFL's constitution.

And? Knowing the RFL they've just never updated it. On all the documents that matter there is zero mention.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

41 minutes ago, Damien said:

And? Knowing the RFL they've just never updated it. On all the documents that matter there is zero mention.

If it's in their constitution then it should be in the documents that matter as well. You seem to be suggesting that they have changed their constitution and not updated things accordingly. I think that it's just as likely that they haven't changed their constitution and are trying to absolve themselves of their responsibilities. Either way, both scenarios are the mark of an amateurish organisation.

[Damien]

27 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

If it's in their constitution then it should be in the documents that matter as well. You seem to be suggesting that they have changed their constitution and not updated things accordingly. I think that it's just as likely that they haven't changed their constitution and are trying to absolve themselves of their responsibilities. Either way, both scenarios are the mark of an amateurish organisation.

Its in a customer charter and that's it. There's plenty of things that are poor and out of date on the RFL website. It's in no strategy or plan documents.

Scotland Rugby League are recognised as the governing body by Sports Scotland, the European Rugby League and International Rugby League. Scotland Rugby League organise the domestic competition, pick national teams and organise underage representative trials which is the basis of this discussion. 

The RFL do nada and have no responsibility for doing so. Their only role is giving whatever assistance they can, and which is sought by Scotland Rugby League, but they have no obligation to do so.

Edited July 14, 2024 by Damien

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

11 minutes ago, Damien said:

Its in a customer charter and that's it.

That refers to their constitution. They haven't just plucked that content out of nowhere. I can't find an actual copy of their constitution anywhere (which in itself is pretty poor IMO). I would love to see their constitution, and if/when it was revised to change from making reference to GB and Ireland to solely England

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

That refers to their constitution. They haven't just plucked that content out of nowhere. I can't find an actual copy of their constitution anywhere (which in itself is pretty poor IMO). I would love to see their constitution, and if/when it was revised to change from making reference to GB and Ireland to solely England

It's a customer charter. You can't keep saying its a constitution when you yourself say you can't find a constitution

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's a customer charter. You can't keep saying its a constitution when you yourself say you can't find a constitution

You do you fella. Believe what you want.

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

You do you fella. Believe what you want.

I don't need to believe anything, I prefer to deal in facts and it's a fact that Scotland Rugby League are recognised as the governing body for the sport in Scotland by Sports Scotland, the European Rugby League and International Rugby League. If you want to believe a wishy washy customer charter that's up to you.

Edited July 14, 2024 by Damien

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

I don't need to believe anything, I prefer to deal in facts

And yet you believe that the RFL's constitution has changed to remove any reference to GB and Ireland, and instead refer solely to England, despite the only available evidence referring to their constitution stating otherwise... Ok whatever

[Damien]

44 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

And yet you believe that the RFL's constitution has changed to remove any reference to GB and Ireland, and instead refer solely to England, despite the only available evidence referring to their constitution stating otherwise... Ok whatever

I don't believe anything, I havent seen the RFL's constitution for starters and neither have you, you said so yourself. I just know who is the governing body for the sport in Scotland and its not the RFL no matter what you wish to believe.

Your biased view obviously just goes back to your lame GB obsession that you rabbit on about time and again. You do you though.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

I don't believe anything, I havent seen the RFL's constitution for starters and neither have you, you said so yourself. I just know who is the governing body for the sport in Scotland and its not the RFL no matter what you wish to believe.

Your biased view obviously just goes back to your lame GB obsession that you rabbit on about time and again. You do you though.

You're just resorting to making strawman arguments and petty digs now. Those two issues have nothing to do with each other. I've never claimed that Scotland RL don't have responsibility as well. This is what I said:

4 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

It's not in their strategy documents, but it is - in their own words - part of their constitution

"The objects of the Rugby Football League as set out in Constitution are:

(a) to foster, govern, develop, organise and manage the Game, in respect of all age groups, at all levels and for both sexes, in Great Britain and Ireland"

You seem happy to absolve the RFL of these responsibilities. Unless I see evidence to the contrary, then I'm not happy to absolve them of it. From where I sit, it looks like the RFL have just completely washed their hands of something that they should be taking some responsibility for. Nothing biased about that whatsoever.

[Damien]

38 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

You're just resorting to making strawman arguments and petty digs now. Those two issues have nothing to do with each other. I've never claimed that Scotland RL don't have responsibility as well. This is what I said:

You seem happy to absolve the RFL of these responsibilities. Unless I see evidence to the contrary, then I'm not happy to absolve them of it. From where I sit, it looks like the RFL have just completely washed their hands of something that they should be taking some responsibility for. Nothing biased about that whatsoever.

You started the digs, I'm replying in kind to your you do you comment. We can all do that.

Nothing strawman about anything I've said either, do you know what that means? I have also said I do think the RFL have a role to play as the leading governing body in the northern hemisphere, they are not responsible though, that is Scotland Rugby League.

And this is what you said for accuracy:

This doesn't mean that it isn't the RFL's responsibility as well though

Edited July 14, 2024 by Damien

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

Nothing strawman about anything I've said either, do you know what that means?

Yes. Do you?

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

You started the digs

Whatever fella. I'm going to leave it there because otherwise this is going to completely derail a decent thread if it hasn't already.

[DoubleD]

The RFL ceased responsibility for other UK nations following Sport England guidance some 10-15 years ago which determined that Sport England funding could only be used for England. This was during the early days of devolution. It was then incumbent upon Wales, Scotland to put in place measures to apply for funding from their national bodies. 

 

[Sports Prophet]

The RFL’s charter says that the RFL is responsible for the sport in GB. That is a fact and that means they are responsible. This doesn’t mean Scotland RL are not also responsible at the same time.

The only reason why the seperate bodies (Wales and Scotland establishes in the 1999’s) were given more responsibility was to access local funding streams, not to dismiss their responsibilities to RL in Scotland and Wales. Otherwise, the RFL would have changed the wording of the charter to refer solely to England.

Saying the RFL have no responsibility to the development of wider GB is like saying the ARLC have no responsibility for the development of RL in NSW or Qld, that is the job of the NSWRL and QRL.

[Damien]

Just now, Sports Prophet said:

The RFL’s charter says that the RFL is responsible for the sport in GB. That is a fact and that means they are responsible. This doesn’t mean Scotland RL are not also responsible at the same time.

The only reason why the seperate bodies (Wales and Scotland establishes in the 1999’s) were given more responsibility was to access local funding streams, not to dismiss their responsibilities to RL in Scotland and Wales. Otherwise, the RFL would have changed the wording of the charter to refer solely to England.

Saying the RFL have no responsibility to the development of wider GB is like saying the ARLC have no responsibility for the development of RL in NSW or Qld, that is the job of the NSWRL and QRL.

It doesn't mean they are responsible though and according to Sports Scotland, the European Rugby League and International Rugby League they are not. That is a fact.

Someone claiming in a customer charter something means diddly squat and certainly isn't a fact.