What might have been

[Dunbar]

Ignore. Not just wrong topic... wrong forum!

[Cumbrian Mackem]

9 hours ago, Taniwha Warriors said:

He's a pretty down to earth guy Cullen is. I thought Jonah Lomu was already committed to Canterbury Bulldogs before AB team mates and lawyer Eric Rush had a chat to him about given another go. This was after Jonah was blamed and then dropped after a loss against France to which he was outplayed by his opponents

Comes across well and very humble. was obviously ridiculously talented.

Cullen, umaga and lomu pretty much came through the ranks at the same time. Makes you think what state NZRL would be in if they had pulled on the kiwi jersey??

[Usera]

21 hours ago, Futtocks said:

There were a few others on the cusp of switching to RL in the shamateur days who were "persuaded" by a lot more money arriving in their bank account (but nothing to do with Rugby, honest!).

The Samoan RU Hall of Fame player Brian Lima and the Fijian legend Waisale Serevi were two notable ones. Both would have been interesting converts, especially Serevi.

Of the NH players who never got close to switching, Simon Geoghagan always looked like he was wasted on RU to me, Neil Jenkins' pin-point kicking and work ethic may well have compensated for a lack of skill elsewhere and there were a few French players from back when they actually* played RU with a bit of style, like Serge Blanco.

*as opposed to the mythical French Flair that Union hacks try to invoke every time the Six Nations lumbers into view these days.

I believe Wigan almost signed Serge Blanco in 1982/83. 

[Damien]

27 minutes ago, Usera said:

I believe Wigan almost signed Serge Blanco in 1982/83. 

That would have been huge for the game in France.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Comes across well and very humble. was obviously ridiculously talented.

Cullen, umaga and lomu pretty much came through the ranks at the same time. Makes you think what state NZRL would be in if they had pulled on the kiwi jersey??

Plenty of All Blacks have played for the Kiwis and it never seemed to make much difference then.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

Plenty of All Blacks have played for the Kiwis and it never seemed to make much difference then.

True but those 3 can be considered all time greats. Especially lomu who transcended the game.

[dkw]

6 hours ago, Derwent said:

Same happened in the 70s when Town were within half an hour of signing the great Scotland and Lions full back Andy Irvine. 

I hadn't heard that one, would have been some signing that.

I heard we've hade quite a few fairly well know Scottish Union players turn out for our reserves over the years who wanted to try it out.

[tms]

16 hours ago, dkw said:

I hadn't heard that one, would have been some signing that.

I heard we've hade quite a few fairly well know Scottish Union players turn out for our reserves over the years who wanted to try it out.

Talking about reserves!!!!!!!

in 62 "NICE ONE CYRIL" spurs and england left back cyril knowles and his younger brother peter played for FEV reserves later that year cyril signed for middlesborough and peter signed for wolves 

they were'e sons of fullback cyril knowles who played 340 games for wakey but mainly for  york in the 1930's and funnily enough played his last game and only once  for FEV against york jn 1940 as a guest

[craig hamilton]

I used to have a Sunday Paper Round and I remember reading Leeds were also very close to signing the talented Springbok scrum-half, Joost vd Westhuizen, now sadly deceased, after the RUWC in 1995.

[dkw]

1 hour ago, POR said:

Talking about reserves!!!!!!!

in 62 "NICE ONE CYRIL" spurs and england left back cyril knowles and his younger brother peter played for FEV reserves later that year cyril signed for middlesborough and peter signed for wolves 

they were'e sons of fullback cyril knowles who played 340 games for wakey but mainly for  york in the 1930's and funnily enough played his last game and only once  for FEV against york jn 1940 as a guest

Wow, now that is a good one, I bet theres loads of stories like that. 

[Damien]

23 minutes ago, craig hamilton said:

I used to have a Sunday Paper Round and I remember reading Leeds were also very close to signing the talented Springbok scrum-half, Joost vd Westhuizen, now sadly deceased, after the RUWC in 1995.

Yes I remember that being strongly rumoured at the time.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

Former all blacks centre ma’a nonu was supposedly close to switching to the nrl as was piri weepu and jerome kaino but coincidentally it was around the time of their contracts being up for renewal.

[Oxford]

Amazing how some cross code threads last ages and some RL ones disappear in a puff of smoke.

One day maybe we could make a list of all the ones we considered failures. It would be be a lot longer than this thread I'd imagine.

[17 stone giant]

Some great names being mentioned. It would have been very interesting to see how they would have done in rugby league.

As someone who enjoys both codes, it does frustrate me a bit that the talent in 'rugby as a whole' is split between the two. It would be nice to be able to wave a magic wand and make all the best players available.

Would David Campese have perhaps made the Kangaroo squad in 1990? Would Guscott have been in the GB team? etc. I'm sure a few of the French RU players would have improved their RL team - e.g. Blanco, Sella.

[Oxford]

4 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Sella.

Wasn't he ex league anyway?

I can't agree with you about the thin talent being between two sports, they're too far apart for that to matter & adaptation has proven amazingly difficult overall. I also think that may be an even greater jump than ever, nowadays.

[Oxford]

What might have been

"Luther Burrell believes he can be a trailblazer for other top rugby union ­players who want to move to Super League.

The 31-year-old England ­international is three training sessions into his Warrington ­Wolves career under head coach Steve Price, after signing from ­the 15-man game's top-flight Northampton Saints.

And he says he has already had calls from union players also eager to switch to the 13-a-side code."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/rugby-league-convert-luther-burrell-16502635

trailblazer

has already had calls from union players also eager to switch to the 13-a-side code

Please show exhibit A & B to the jury.

[17 stone giant]

32 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Wasn't he ex league anyway?

I can't agree with you about the thin talent being between two sports, they're too far apart for that to matter & adaptation has proven amazingly difficult overall. I also think that may be an even greater jump than ever, nowadays.

I didn't say anything about the talent being thin - I said that I wished the best 'rugby players' could have been available for both codes. Obviously that's not possible, as a player can only play one sport at a time, but I was speaking hypothetically.

I gave the example of Campese possibly playing for the Kangaroos, but equally I would suggest that Meninga would have walked into the Wallabies team during the same era. The point being that, in my imaginary world, both the Kangaroos and Wallabies would be selecting from all of the best rugby players in Australia, and not just from those who happened to be playing their particular code.

[Oxford]

44 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I didn't say anything about the talent being thin

You said that it was spread across two sports as if it was in short supply and the same kind of talent, and I disagree with both ideas.

 

45 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

The point being that, in my imaginary world, both the Kangaroos and Wallabies would be selecting from all of the best rugby players in Australia, and not just from those who happened to be playing their particular code.

As above, imaginary or otherwise.

And what no one ever says is that skills that shine in one are completely lost in the other which makes even the successful ones a wastage of talent.

[Oldbear]

51 minutes ago, Oxford said:

And what no one ever says is that skills that shine in one are completely lost in the other which makes even the successful ones a wastage of talent.

This is a key point. My youngest son plays RU at University level here in Canada, standard wise it’s where many of the provincial rep teams select players, and also feeds into Team Canada. Prior to that he played 4 years high school RU, for one of BC’s top 10 high school teams, as a result he played with and against the best young RU talent on the West Coast. I pretty much watched all of his games until he moved out East to play at University and I have lost count of the number of naturally talented kids who would look great if playing league, but were slowly having that natural talent coached out of them to adapt to a fairly sterile brand of RU. See the same kid again at age 21 and I wonder if they could ever recapture the natural flair they had at 16, however if they want to be successful in RU they follow the coaches mantra, wasting talent for sure, also making them less likely to be able to play league at a decent standard as an adult (oh I forgot, I’m in Canada!).

[Oxford]

15 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

See the same kid again at age 21 and I wonder if they could ever recapture the natural flair they had at 16, however if they want to be successful in RU they follow the coaches mantra, wasting talent for sure, also making them less likely to be able to play league at a decent standard as an adult (oh I forgot, I’m in Canada!).

Those are good questions and points Oldbear. Over coaching can be a retarding agent in any sport. Some sports strictures as a game can also limit natural talent. Starting young at any sport is the key point.

Albert Ferasse an arch union person and restricter of RL as a game, always recommended people should play league when young as a way of producing good skill development. That is a fascinating contradiction.

[Oldbear]

6 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Albert Ferasse an arch union person and restricter of RL as a game, always recommended people should play league when young as a way of producing good skill development. That is a fascinating contradiction.

Maybe that was the origin of the “French flair” that union commentators would wet themselves about. It’s quite funny here because high school union in Canada is pretty open and attractive, at least as union goes, until they hit grade 12 and the coaches really take over (trophies to win and university scholarships to earn). After that it becomes 10 man rugby, with the ball occasionally finding its way out to the wings, and the winning teams are the ones who are technically strong in scrums and line outs, with the successful players those who excel there.

[thebrewxi]

Just as an aside, we need to remember that players like Campese, Botha, Botica, Zinzan Brooke, Rob Louwe and John Kirwan they were all player professional rugby anyway, before any of them chose to play, or not play, league. I guess this means all these southern hemisphere players were potential targets. I guess no one could afford Campese though.

[Cumbrian Mackem]

On 01/02/2021 at 09:23, POR said:

that's  right and  Oldham's Se'e Solomona was  banned for four matches for his part in the brawl,

Wasn’t his nickname “tiny”?

[The Art of Hand and Foot]

3 hours ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Wasn’t his nickname “tiny”?

Ironically, It was. If I remember rightly, oldham let him go when bob lindner was signed. I think only 4 overseas players were allowed at that time.

[Oxford]

13 hours ago, Oldbear said:

Maybe that was the origin of the “French flair” that union commentators would wet themselves about.

It's all relative isn't it, OB ?

When you consider the high failure rate as opposed to those that were a success and in the days when semi-pro was the order of the day on both sides of the divide, it is a rdiculous idea that you could identify talent that could make it in the other sport. This was because too many variables are involved.

 

It's a comfortable dreamy thread that if it was about expansion or some other Total bête noire would recieve heaps of derision and instead we get dreamy eyed what if's about people who lacked the courage to make the leap because jumping from Yawn to TGG takes courage and not because of the nature of the game itself either.