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Do we actually have any situations within the current game where this still happens? i cannot remember the last time i saw the game continue after a knock on like it used to, opposition dropped the ball, you pick it up and try and launch a counter attack, even tonight the ref shouted zero but the players just stopped and stood still till he blew up rather than taking up the opportunity to attack, i've noticed it a lot more on TV since i can't attend games where even a straighforward knock on/ dropped ball now results in play being stopped for a few minutes. 

An example last week was when Leeds forced a Saints knock on near the touchline and every Leeds player came running over to join in the 'celebrations', even the centre and winger on the opposite side, obviously play was stopped to let the 'celebrations' go ahead and time for players to reposition etc, surely in that situation play on is still the ruling is it not?

The game is stopped for a seemingly long period after every penalty awarded, every kick out of play, every turnover and every injury no matter how serious, what happened to just getting on with the game? we used to talk about how quick the game was not so long ago now it seems to me it's just stoppage after stoppage with very little reasoning behind it, gone are the days of a quick tap to get on the front foot, a wide passing movement to catch out a static defence,  maybe it's to give the 26 robots a chance to recharge and reposition.

Someone please tell me this isn't just me becoming an intolerable old man and it is actually a thing!!!

Edited by daz39
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15 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Do we actually have any situations within the current game where this still happens? i cannot remember the last time i saw the game continue after a knock on like it used to, opposition dropped the ball, you pick it up and try and launch a counter attack, even tonight the ref shouted zero but the players just stopped and stood still till he blew up rather than taking up the opportunity to attack, i've noticed it a lot more on TV since i can't attend games where even a straighforward knock on/ dropped ball now results in play being stopped for a few minutes. 

It`s a good question and one that has been discussed a fair bit lately on different threads.

It would seem that the trend has increasingly been in the last decade or so that any loss of control is deemed a knock-on and consequently pulled up. The mere loss of control, forward or backward, being deemed punishable in itself. 

I`m glad to say though there does definitely seem to be an attempt, certainly over here, to be more lenient in the policing of knock-on`s, in Thursday`s Broncos/Panthers match at the !9th minute a genuine 50/50 call was waved play-on by the referee, having said that a blatant knock-back by Panther`s winger To`o later in the match was pulled up.

I have definitely witnessed more play-ons this year than in previous years, I think with the push for continuity in the game the penny has dropped in League hierarchy that this is at least one way that they can facilitate that with out any more obvious rule changes.

I think it`s great, strange things happen in League when the ball hits the deck, some players stop, some rush out of defensive lines at the loose ball, all in all it breaks up defensive lines, and broken defensive lines means more opportunity for attack and attack is a good thing.

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1 hour ago, daz39 said:

Do we actually have any situations within the current game where this still happens? i cannot remember the last time i saw the game continue after a knock on like it used to, opposition dropped the ball, you pick it up and try and launch a counter attack, even tonight the ref shouted zero but the players just stopped and stood still till he blew up rather than taking up the opportunity to attack, i've noticed it a lot more on TV since i can't attend games where even a straighforward knock on/ dropped ball now results in play being stopped for a few minutes. 

This is a direct consequence of what I`ve taken to labelling "Knock-on derangement syndrome" on other threads. 

Refs see any ball going to ground as a knock-on unless it travels palpably backwards. If a player drops the ball and an opponent dives on it - that`s a double knock-on (little bobble). So players expect a whistle to follow any loss of possession.

If an opponent spills the ball, why would you risk wasting energy picking it up and running 50m downfield when there`s a strong chance you will turn round and see the ref beckoning you back?

26 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

 I think with the push for continuity in the game the penny has dropped in League hierarchy that this is at least one way that they can facilitate that with out any more obvious rule changes.

In the interests of logic and my blood pressure, let`s hope so.

Edited by unapologetic pedant
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23 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

In the interests of logic and my blood pressure, let`s hope so.

The Roosters/Storm game showed last night that off-loads are king in the NRL now, the Roosters had nothing and of course the Storm are leading the way, players twisting their body on immediate impact with the defensive line, not waiting to be grabbed and wrestled, and support players continually pushing up, this is NRL 2021, and it looks great, one of these off-loads is the equivalent of a quick play the ball and you still have the tackle up your sleeve.

It is inevitable there will be more balls hitting the deck under this scenario, and like marginal forward passes benefit of the doubt must apply.

 

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I was going to post something in the game thread about this last night. 

HKR lost the ball and Huddersfield took possesion, the ref shouted play on but Aiden Sezar decided he would rather have a hand over and just stopped playing and stood still. He didn't drop the ball or make any attempt to interrupt the play, he simply stopped and decided not to play on.

Again, later in the game he thought the Giants should have a penalty for a high shot and just stopped playing again. The ref stopped the game, the video ref reviewed the incident and they got the penalty. 

A bit weird that the players can decide how the game should work like that.

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17 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I was going to post something in the game thread about this last night. 

HKR lost the ball and Huddersfield took possesion, the ref shouted play on but Aiden Sezar decided he would rather have a hand over and just stopped playing and stood still. He didn't drop the ball or make any attempt to interrupt the play, he simply stopped and decided not to play on.

Again, later in the game he thought the Giants should have a penalty for a high shot and just stopped playing again. The ref stopped the game, the video ref reviewed the incident and they got the penalty. 

A bit weird that the players can decide how the game should work like that.

That's the incident i'm referreing to (Sezer), i couldn't believe it, the ref should have just shouted to play on but he decided to stop the game as the players chose not to - surely as the ref he should stick by his decision? it was ridiculous and it's creeping into the game and spoiling it even more - just play on FFS !!

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11 minutes ago, daz39 said:

That's the incident i'm referreing to (Sezer), i couldn't believe it, the ref should have just shouted to play on but he decided to stop the game as the players chose not to - surely as the ref he should stick by his decision? it was ridiculous and it's creeping into the game and spoiling it even more - just play on FFS !!

I agree, it is a very poor look for the sport.  If anything it looks like the players are not interesting in competing.  I know that is not the case but it does come across like that and it is a worrying trend.

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28 minutes ago, daz39 said:

That's the incident i'm referreing to (Sezer), i couldn't believe it, the ref should have just shouted to play on but he decided to stop the game as the players chose not to - surely as the ref he should stick by his decision? it was ridiculous and it's creeping into the game and spoiling it even more - just play on FFS !!

SIGNALS MADE WHEN PLAY IS NOT NECESSARILY STOPPED

Play on. Wave the hands chest high palms facing away from the chest across and in front of the body.

We`ve seen it plenty of time in the past, it`s not difficult is it.

When Roosters played Souths a couple of weeks ago the same thing happened, ball went down, Souths players all stopped, Tedesco picked it up and shot through and scored. That happens a couple of times and teams will pretty quickly wake up.

 

 
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1 minute ago, The Rocket said:

SIGNALS MADE WHEN PLAY IS NOT NECESSARILY STOPPED

Play on. Wave the hands chest high palms facing away from the chest across and in front of the body.

We`ve seen it plenty of time in the past, it`s not difficult is it.

When Roosters played Souths a couple of weeks ago the same thing happened, ball went down, Souths players all stopped, Tedesco picked it up and shot through and scored. That happens a couple of times and teams will pretty quickly wake up.

 

 

There was something similar a few weeks back when Ben Thaler was the ref, the ball went to ground, the benefitting team picked it up and played on, player shot through a gap only for Thaler to be heard shouting 'nah nah, there was a knock on, justhave a rest' or something similar, surely we should be encouraging play to continue and add excitement rather than just accepting everything has to stop the game for a few minutes.

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2 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Again, later in the game he thought the Giants should have a penalty for a high shot and just stopped playing again. The ref stopped the game, the video ref reviewed the incident and they got the penalty. 

A bit weird that the players can decide how the game should work like that.

I’ve said before I don’t like the VR intervening in play . It’s to open to being worked by players . Go down holding your neck or head and they’re so spooked by crushers and head shots that the VR works back from your ‘ injury ‘ to find a penalty offence by replaying the tackle in minute slow motion . The game just isn’t meant to be viewed or officiated like that . You could dissect every tackle and find something if you look hard enough . Players are staying down now when we prided ourselves on players getting up 

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Quote

That's the incident i'm referreing to (Sezer), i couldn't believe it, the ref should have just shouted to play on but he decided to stop the game as the players chose not to - surely as the ref he should stick by his decision? it was ridiculous and it's creeping into the game and spoiling it even more - just play on FFS !!

Since the rule change, players now think "why play on near the touchline, when you can restart in the middle of the pitch?" Plus, I don't think refs can make players play on. And even if they could, all they'd have to do would be to (accidently on purpose) knock on, and then it'd go back to the first offence anyway.

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13 hours ago, daz39 said:

gone are the days of a quick tap to get on the front foot,

Bugs me when a player takes a quick tap ( on the correct spot ) and the ref blows up , pulls him back and either says wait for me ( why ? ) or I’ll give you the mark ... then points to where he took the quick tap from in the first place . I like  the spontaneity of the quick tap play but now it’s quashed by it must be a controlled restart for some reason . If your not ready and the attacking team is then tough , you’ve been penalised 

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1 hour ago, DavidM said:

I’ve said before I don’t like the VR intervening in play . It’s to open to being worked by players . Go down holding your neck or head and they’re so spooked by crushers and head shots that the VR works back from your ‘ injury ‘ to find a penalty offence by replaying the tackle in minute slow motion . The game just isn’t meant to be viewed or officiated like that . You could dissect every tackle and find something if you look hard enough . Players are staying down now when we prided ourselves on players getting up 

 

Bang on, it's almost got to a position of the players deciding themselves when to stop play to try and gain an advantage, i agree about the VR, should be used for groundings/touch and knock-ons for tries and nothing else.

The games are getting really hard to watch for me due to all the stoppages, usually engineered by the players themselves.

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1 hour ago, Stotty said:

Since the rule change, players now think "why play on near the touchline, when you can restart in the middle of the pitch?" Plus, I don't think refs can make players play on. And even if they could, all they'd have to do would be to (accidently on purpose) knock on, and then it'd go back to the first offence anyway.

Oh it's not new to this season, it's been bugging me for a few seasons now

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On 17/04/2021 at 14:13, Tommygilf said:

Wests Tigers would have won in golden point literally this morning from a play on ruling by the on field ref

The ref wasn`t sure whether there was grounding, indeed we know from his calling of the try up the other end that his inkling was that there hadn`t been, so play-on was the correct ruling until the Bunker said otherwise.

With the current ongoing Bunker monitoring of play, I`m not absolutely sure for how long the ref is advised to let play continue in such circumstances. i.e. had there been a completed tackle on Luke Brooks, was that the moment to stop play and go to the Bunker, or should it be at the end of a set with the Bunker checking as play goes on?

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On 16/04/2021 at 23:39, The Rocket said:

I have definitely witnessed more play-ons this year than in previous years, I think with the push for continuity in the game the penny has dropped in League hierarchy that this is at least one way that they can facilitate that with out any more obvious rule changes.

If we`re correct in detecting a salutary change in the NRL, this has not yet filtered through to lower-grade officials who, if anything, are getting worse.

I`m hearing more refs in junior rep games shouting "play on" when a player offloads. Why would they feel the need to do that unless they`re assuming every offload is a potential problem? And their default setting is to look for things to call and reasons to stop the game.

Whenever someone tells someone else to keep doing something they would automatically be doing anyway, it`s a sign the prompter has an agenda.

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On 17/04/2021 at 09:03, Dunbar said:

HKR lost the ball and Huddersfield took possesion, the ref shouted play on but Aiden Sezar decided he would rather have a hand over and just stopped playing and stood still. He didn't drop the ball or make any attempt to interrupt the play, he simply stopped and decided not to play on.

On the up side, at least we no longer have the RFL`s ludicrous "free play" gimmick, which would have meant Sezer wasting everyone`s time with a nondescript kick, before we came back for the slow-motion handover.

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I suppose its who the ball bounces too and how setup your attack is. If your dummy half isn't in the picture as the forwards have forced the error do you want to waste the opportunity or setup with clear direction especially now you can opt where on the pitch to place the roll the ball as in near, middle or far side on the other hand if that drops to a speedster like Grace there is definitely play on to be had then

Edited by Harrogate Fire Ants
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8 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

If we`re correct in detecting a salutary change in the NRL, this has not yet filtered through to lower-grade officials who, if anything, are getting worse.

I`m hearing more refs in junior rep games shouting "play on" when a player offloads. Why would they feel the need to do that unless they`re assuming every offload is a potential problem? And their default setting is to look for things to call and reasons to stop the game.

Whenever someone tells someone else to keep doing something they would automatically be doing anyway, it`s a sign the prompter has an agenda.

I think if we are correct in this, and I think absolutely we are, we have to imagine what kind of directives are coming from the referees head office. I imagine it would go something along the lines of `in the interests of maintaining continuity in the game and limit the amount of stoppages referees are encouraged to wave play-on whenever there is a knock-on, off-load or other transgression involving loss of control of the ball that isn`t obviously propelled forward`, or words to that effect.

Lower grade referees probably don`t have the cool-heads than those who get through to the higher ranks and their over-reaction may be more a case of wanting to follow new game management instructions, with a blanket `play-on` call rather than how a more discerning higher grade referee who may have the judgement to limit it to the appropriate moments. 

This `play-on` call blitz you have observed may be in fact part of a head office agenda, actually conditioning players to off-load more by literally having the referees encourage them every time they do, not unlike in kids League where coaches on the field or parents next to it yell `Run Run` or `Pass Pass` to encourage the kids into action. Although it would be funny if we started seeing referees offering the same advice before the pass or off-load was made.

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Being spontaneous does not bode well in today's structured game, each player has a job to do, knows when it's his turn to run the ball in, player's know where they have to be in the attacking line being a dummy runner or reciver, and the on field kicker always being in a position and ready. 

There are not many 'off the cuff' player's about, I should imagine it's a statement not in any modern day coaches vocabulary.

Edited by Harry Stottle
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1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

`in the interests of maintaining continuity in the game and limit the amount of stoppages referees are encouraged to wave play-on whenever there is a knock-on, off-load or other transgression involving loss of control of the ball that isn`t obviously propelled forward`, or words to that effect.

Just to clarify, in this instance, the offloads I`m referring to that the ref is shouting "play on" at, are not ones that go to ground. They`re perfectly clean, go to hand, nothing remotely transgressive about them. There is no reason for the ref to say anything. Unless they now regard any pass out of the tackle as "loss of control".

It`s currently half-time in the St. Mary`s/Central Coast women`s premiership game. This ref is fully in the grip of knock-on derangement syndrome. The game hasn`t been too good to watch so far. Mainly because every time the players try to be creative, the bloke blows his whistle. Some of the knock-ons he`s called are so obviously backwards, all you can do is laugh.

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