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Another SL restructure is being planned


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42 minutes ago, Chris Taylor said:

We should be looking at expanding the league to 16 - 18 teams over the next 5 - 10 years. That can easily be done, by adding teams that have traditional / community value and also the non-heartland teams. 

It would increase variety. But an issue I would have with this is that it would make the disparity in standards between Championship and SL even bigger. A team getting relegated would spell absolute disaster in terms of profile and attendances, because there simply wouldn't be any big clubs left in the Championship.

44 minutes ago, Chris Taylor said:

with more teams in the top division it will increase the level of competitiveness and help drive the game forward. 

I'm not sure this follows. Arguably it could dilute the quality significantly, and lead to an even bigger disparity between the likes of Saints, Wigan and Leeds and the also rans. 

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4 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I think it's not just the scaling up, but also the scaling down when teams get relegated. 

For me, I just don't think the game is financially strong enough to cope with P&R, either on a club level where teams have to massively cut costs in order to survive being relegated, or on a competition level where it could be disaster in terms of losing viewers/profile/sponsorship if a giant like Leeds had a bad season and got relegated. Attendances and viewing figures could take a massive hit.

However, I completely get the attraction of P&R, and confess that I get engrossed in and enjoy the drama of it as well. But IMO if we're going to have P&R then we've got have P&R throughout the entire pyramid, so that a club can progress from bottom to top. We've also got to ditch the absolute salary cap, which is completely at odds with the principle of P&R. The argument for P&R is that it can allow the cream to rise to the top, but the salary cap artificially limits a club's ability to compete on the field. If a really strong club has one bad season they can get relegated because they were prevented from signing more and/or better players in order to allow weaker clubs to compete with them. Any salary cap under P&R should be based on a club's ability to generate income. This would reward the stronger clubs and encourage clubs to develop their businesses, and would massively reduce the risk of one of the stronger clubs being relegated and harming the profile of the competition. It would also stop clubs from overspending.

Yep.  Should be hard cap set at 65% of income. Edit: No 'loans' from owners aren't income. If an owner wants to spunk money into a club as a gift fine but loans, absolutely not. 

Edited by ShropshireBull
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12 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

It would increase variety. But an issue I would have with this is that it would make the disparity in standards between Championship and SL even bigger. A team getting relegated would spell absolute disaster in terms of profile and attendances, because there simply wouldn't be any big clubs left in the Championship.

I'm not sure this follows. Arguably it could dilute the quality significantly, and lead to an even bigger disparity between the likes of Saints, Wigan and Leeds and the also rans. 

From whichever angle you look at this, there will be a cut off point (whether you increase or perhaps decrease) the number of teams.

I don't think you would really get past Saints, Wigan, Leeds, Hull or Warrington from winning anything any time soon anyway. 

I think the more teams in the top league, the less risk of the YoYo effect and also, teams can "plan for longer" and would be more than happy to take the money.

It was around a year ago, but I mentioned on here that this moment in the game is just as significant as the start of Super League. The return of fans, could be the breath of fresh air this game needs. In my opinions, it's stagnant, robotic and it needs some life back in it. Toronto was that brief ray of light shining.

If teams wanted a bit more security on being in SL until we got to a specific number of teams - then we could easily suggestion no relegation until 2025 and promote one club at a time, giving them plenty of opportunity to meet a minimum standard. 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

It would increase variety. But an issue I would have with this is that it would make the disparity in standards between Championship and SL even bigger. A team getting relegated would spell absolute disaster in terms of profile and attendances, because there simply wouldn't be any big clubs left in the Championship.

I'm not sure this follows. Arguably it could dilute the quality significantly, and lead to an even bigger disparity between the likes of Saints, Wigan and Leeds and the also rans. 

The thing is, what you do now will have an impact on now.. the disparity between divisions etc and all the things we have been talking about... What we MUST look at though is what best gets us to the point we want to be at in 5-10 years times. That may be an increase in teams in the top division it may just be the same number of teams but stronger, it may be same number of teams but with depth into the second division etc. 

All the ideas have merit be it a fix for today or to get us somewhere in the future but there is a risk today.. but where do we want to get too. I think this is the bit RL has missed for so long, where do we want to be? what does the structure in 10 years look like, is it a strong top league is it a strong pyramid, does it involve expansion teams etc then lets work out how best to get us there.

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Let’s say Leigh were told no relegation this year but funding for next year was based on finishing position in the league. SL have decided to got to 13/14/15/16 teams, Derek could invest as much or as little as he liked into Leigh’s academy licence application and he could also start to offer deals to players for next year.

Let’s just say he also wanted to tip in 1M per year of his own money into the squad pot, it’s not unrealistic to think Leigh could start to attract some quality additions on longer than a 1 year deal, now let’s say that happens again the following year, slowly but surely Leigh could realistically consider  themselves as a SL contender within a few years. Same for York/Toulouse/Featherstone/Widnes/Bradford/London it doesn’t matter the club aslong  as there is someone with money, means & ambition at the top.

The same goes for any club with a “money man” as an owner, the problem has always been 1 year is not long enough to make a difference in a league as small as 12 teams. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

It's just that I found it impossible to read.  I am massively imperfect.

I've edited it to try and help. As a Dyslexic I don't always get these things right (hence the defensiveness) but that was written and posted in a bit of a rush (as am at work) which exacerbates the problem.

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2 hours ago, RP London said:

All the ideas have merit be it a fix for today or to get us somewhere in the future but there is a risk today.. but where do we want to get too. I think this is the bit RL has missed for so long, where do we want to be? what does the structure in 10 years look like, is it a strong top league is it a strong pyramid, does it involve expansion teams etc then lets work out how best to get us there.

You're absolutely right - every structure has its pros and cons, be it licensing or P&R or middle 8s or whatever. The really disappointing thing is that I don't think RL over here has ever had much of a long term vision as to what it wants the competition to be. It just seems a mish-mash of different conflicting ideas. The only time the game has had much of a vision was the Framing the Future document (or whatever it was called) that led to Super League. And that went down like a fart in a lift!

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14 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

You're absolutely right - every structure has its pros and cons, be it licensing or P&R or middle 8s or whatever. The really disappointing thing is that I don't think RL over here has ever had much of a long term vision as to what it wants the competition to be. It just seems a mish-mash of different conflicting ideas. The only time the game has had much of a vision was the Framing the Future document (or whatever it was called) that led to Super League. And that went down like a fart in a lift!

100% and I know we can agree to disagree on our points - but the intention of having a better game is most certainly there.

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17 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

You're absolutely right - every structure has its pros and cons, be it licensing or P&R or middle 8s or whatever. The really disappointing thing is that I don't think RL over here has ever had much of a long term vision as to what it wants the competition to be. It just seems a mish-mash of different conflicting ideas. The only time the game has had much of a vision was the Framing the Future document (or whatever it was called) that led to Super League. And that went down like a fart in a lift!

spot on.. 

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7 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Except Leigh didn't win their place in SL for this year by winning on the field, and I think that's why so many people have an issue, not because they're Leigh, or because of their geographical location !

In truth nobody should have , but you lot needed the 12th club , don't blame those that offered to help you out , yes , help you out , let's get it right 

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3 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

It would increase variety. But an issue I would have with this is that it would make the disparity in standards between Championship and SL even bigger. A team getting relegated would spell absolute disaster in terms of profile and attendances, because there simply wouldn't be any big clubs left in the Championship.

I'm not sure this follows. Arguably it could dilute the quality significantly, and lead to an even bigger disparity between the likes of Saints, Wigan and Leeds and the also rans. 

I don't think it spells disaster, it just gives a chance for clubs to dust themselves down and rebuild. If we were going 14 next year RFL Champ would lose Toulouse Fev and maybe York. There's plenty of players that don't go full time because the pay isn't there and plenty of NRL quality players who could be tempted to Toulouse. The bet those of us who are pro 14 SL is the teams that go up will generate enough commercial revenue outside of a TV deal to be teams that long term can compete with Wigan and Saints. I think the likes of York, Newcastle will be able to match if not exceed the commercial income of Wigan and Saints. 

Next season, RFL Champ would still have Bulls, Newcastle, Widnes and Sheffield back in their new stadium. Plus it means we get a few bigger teams from L1 (Cumbrian side, Keighley who are rebuilding and could get over 1500 in RFL Champ). Add the team that comes down and I don't think it would diminish the comp at all tbh. 

 

Edited by ShropshireBull
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5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Correct , but who won the Championship last year ?

Is irrelevant.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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6 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes maybe, but and it is a big but the community clubs would have to prove they had through a due diligence process the finances in place and facilities to a mininmum standard to take the place of a present L1 club.

And that they wanted to ?

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5 year objectives

 

Grow Player pool - two tens, FT with min spends - cant afford it then dont apply

Expand in France - TO plus Avignon to join Cats 80-90 FT players in France

Beat Australia in a test series/4 nations - more competitive 10 team SL1, more FT players to choose from

5-10 years - expand two tens, expand France and give Australia a start each match to bridge the gap.

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3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

😂 No it certainly isn't , but it doesn't suit your agenda 

Usual bottling out on your part 

My agenda is that I don’t have an agenda. Leigh were promoted on the back of some spreadsheets and a few powerpoints. They weren’t doing anyone a favour and no alternatives based on playing record in either 2020 or 2019 appears to have even been considered.

You appear to now want to rewrite history so that Leigh valiantly stepped in to save Super League. But, nah. When presented with a none playing route to be in the big money league you jumped at the chance. No shame in that, so did a few others.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

My agenda is that I don’t have an agenda. Leigh were promoted on the back of some spreadsheets and a few powerpoints. They weren’t doing anyone a favour and no alternatives based on playing record in either 2020 or 2019 appears to have even been considered.

You appear to now want to rewrite history so that Leigh valiantly stepped in to save Super League. But, nah. When presented with a none playing route to be in the big money league you jumped at the chance. No shame in that, so did a few others.

Yes , but you picked on this one year to discredit an opinion based on normal conditions , either way carry on being ' clever ' if you like , but you aren't fooling anybody 

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3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

you picked on this one year to discredit an opinion based on normal conditions

I have no idea what this means, which is probably just as well.

Anyway, I shall leave you to it.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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8 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Is it me or do these restructure threads always get hijacked by followers of Wigan’s second club? 

Maybe certain posters should stop going out of their way to bring Leigh into the discussions , and out of their way to criticise them , including you 

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5 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

This is why comparisons with football's Super League are daft - it's like trying to compare a push bike with a Ferrari. Take Toulouse and Catalans for example - they are going to struggle to develop any kind of long term tv deal whilst there's no certainty of whether or not they will be in the top flight from year to year.

One thing I absolutely abhor on these pages is when people use football as a comparrison, but for once I am going to join the ranks of those who fall back on football to get a point over.

Just now on the BBC 6 o'clock news, Man City manager Pep Guardiola in disrespect of the proposed European SL said:-

"It is not sport when it doesn't matter when you lose"

My thoughts exactly for those who wish to ring fence certain clubs from relegation in our own version of the Rugby League European SL.

IT IS NOT SPORT, nothing else needs adding to that, well said Pep.

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7 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Maybe certain posters should stop going out of their way to bring Leigh into the discussions , and out of their way to criticise them , including you 

Leigh are interesting as they sort of embody the P&R ‘dream’ but also the ‘nightmare’ reality. 

It seems to me Leigh could have a great future as the ‘best of the rest’. A highly successful second tier club with a winning team, instead of faintly embarrassing easybeats propping up Super League.

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