Toulouse away July 24th

[Wakefield Ram]

29 minutes ago, POR said:

THEY wont disregard the TO shenanigans by the end of the season all other teams will have played the sixteen games needed to justify a legitimate table

 

funny you should say that went on beeb looking for FEV lions next fixture and lo and behold

Toulouse Olympique XIIICCDewsbury Rams

 

 

The pandemic is hardly the fault of TO, but understand you are scared they might beat Fev. 

[DOGFATHER]

32 minutes ago, POR said:

THEY wont disregard the TO shenanigans by the end of the season all other teams will have played the sixteen games needed to justify a legitimate table

 

funny you should say that went on beeb looking for FEV lions next fixture and lo and behold

Toulouse Olympique XIIICCDewsbury Rams

 

 

Is it really legitimate playing 16 out of what should be a 26 game season though? 

Personally, it just doesn't seem right that teams could be promoted or relegated on a very unfair competition.

[tms]

6 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

The pandemic is hardly the fault of TO, but understand you are scared they might beat Fev. 

No bodies saying it's the fault of TO just letting you know about P and R 

FEV aren't scared about TO everybody can't wait for Yorkshire day to come around AND  I think they will be  scared of FEV  and

on TO web The Toulouse Olympique v Dewsbury Rams meeting scheduled for this Saturday, July 24 at Ernest Wallon will not be able to take place, and as no weekend is available by the end of the season to play this match, it is therefore canceled.

2 minutes ago, DOGFATHER said:

Is it really legitimate playing 16 out of what should be a 26 game season though? 

Personally, it just doesn't seem right that teams could be promoted or relegated on a very unfair competition.

It's 22 this year DF 

and to be fair got nowt to do with us fans at start of season all championship clubs agreed 

Clubs will be required to have played 70% of their league fixtures (16 out of 22 in the Betfred Championship) to qualify for the play-offs. and Million Pound Game to determine promotion to the Betfred Super League in 2022.

The bottom two teams in the Betfred Championship will be relegated – irrespective of how many fixtures they have played.

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, DOGFATHER said:

Is it really legitimate playing 16 out of what should be a 26 game season though? 

Personally, it just doesn't seem right that teams could be promoted or relegated on a very unfair competition.

The P&R regulations were defined and accepted before the season began. Any club who disagreed with the format would surely have objected at that time. I would challenge anybody to come up with a solution to this present crisis that would be uniformly accepted as "fair".

[tms]

5 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

The P&R regulations were defined and accepted before the season began. Any club who disagreed with the format would surely have objected at that time. I would challenge anybody to come up with a solution to this present crisis that would be uniformly accepted as "fair".

YOU and me both

[DOGFATHER]

23 hours ago, POR said:

No bodies saying it's the fault of TO just letting you know about P and R 

FEV aren't scared about TO everybody can't wait for Yorkshire day to come around AND  I think they will be  scared of FEV  and

on TO web The Toulouse Olympique v Dewsbury Rams meeting scheduled for this Saturday, July 24 at Ernest Wallon will not be able to take place, and as no weekend is available by the end of the season to play this match, it is therefore canceled.

It's 22 this year DF 

and to be fair got nowt to do with us fans at start of season all championship clubs agreed 

Clubs will be required to have played 70% of their league fixtures (16 out of 22 in the Betfred Championship) to qualify for the play-offs. and Million Pound Game to determine promotion to the Betfred Super League in 2022.

The bottom two teams in the Betfred Championship will be relegated – irrespective of how many fixtures they have played.

I realise that, and a 22 game season was bad enough, but when there are even further reductions to an already truncated season, it becomes a farce.

When you have a full time team that is effectively playing once a fortnight against part time teams that have been squeezing 3 games a week in to fulfill fixtures, it just doesn't sit right with me. 

Yes BSJ, the club's voted for it preseason, and I can understand the probable reasons for doing it.

However, the club's also voted to reduce the funding for the club's outside SL once the new TV deal kicks in. Just because clubs vote for something, it doesn't make it right!

Edited July 18, 2021 by DOGFATHER

[Blind side johnny]

11 hours ago, DOGFATHER said:

I realise that, and a 22 game season was bad enough, but when there are even further reductions to an already truncated season, it becomes a farce.

When you have a full time team that is effectively playing once a fortnight against part time teams that have been squeezing 3 games a week in to fulfill fixtures, it just doesn't sit right with me. 

Yes BSJ, the club's voted for it preseason, and I can understand the probable reasons for doing it.

However, the club's also voted to reduce the funding for the club's outside SL once the new TV deal kicks in. Just because clubs vote for something, it doesn't make it right!

Sorry DF but you are conflating two things.

The Championship clubs accepted the new P&R system for 2021, understanding the issues that may arise. Whether ay SL clubs might try to renege on this is anyone's guess.

The clubs didn't vote to reduce any funding - Sky did that for them by offering a greatly reduced contract. ALL clubs are facing a large reduction, including those in SL. The proportion of that which goes to the RFL was negotiated with SL by the RFL; there was no vote by the Championship clubs on this. The subsequent proportion of that limited pot which is to be distributed to the non-SL clubs and that which is retained by the RFL for their own administration is still being discussed, I understand. Hence Lingard's comments on the unfairness of the current position with clubs not knowing where they stand even as we approach the end of the season.

Nothing is anything like as simple as many would seem to believe.

[DOGFATHER]

1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

Sorry DF but you are conflating two things.

The Championship clubs accepted the new P&R system for 2021, understanding the issues that may arise. Whether ay SL clubs might try to renege on this is anyone's guess.

The clubs didn't vote to reduce any funding - Sky did that for them by offering a greatly reduced contract. ALL clubs are facing a large reduction, including those in SL. The proportion of that which goes to the RFL was negotiated with SL by the RFL; there was no vote by the Championship clubs on this. The subsequent proportion of that limited pot which is to be distributed to the non-SL clubs and that which is retained by the RFL for their own administration is still being discussed, I understand. Hence Lingard's comments on the unfairness of the current position with clubs not knowing where they stand even as we approach the end of the season.

Nothing is anything like as simple as many would seem to believe.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/13/rfl-super-league-reform-smaller-clubs

The vote also included:-

Championship and League 1 clubs say that if the TV deal falls by any percentage, the amount Super League receives will remain unaffected. They, instead, are calling for the entire sport’s distribution to fall or rise together, rather than the RFL and lower leagues suffer a harsher fall in funding which they believe could lead to a potentially disastrous financial outlook for the game outside Super League.

Hence, why we are negotiating. If the reduction was the same percentage across the game, everyone would know what we are getting. I've heard rumours that the funding amount offered by SL to the Ch is circa £25k. 

[Crown Flatter]

3 minutes ago, DOGFATHER said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/13/rfl-super-league-reform-smaller-clubs

The vote also included:-

Championship and League 1 clubs say that if the TV deal falls by any percentage, the amount Super League receives will remain unaffected. They, instead, are calling for the entire sport’s distribution to fall or rise together, rather than the RFL and lower leagues suffer a harsher fall in funding which they believe could lead to a potentially disastrous financial outlook for the game outside Super League.

Hence, why we are negotiating. If the reduction was the same percentage across the game, everyone would know what we are getting. I've heard rumours that the funding amount offered by SL to the Ch is circa £25k. 

“Rumours” -  in the plural? 
Okay DF, from where did these rumours emanate? Do tell. 

[NickD]

14 hours ago, DOGFATHER said:

I realise that, and a 22 game season was bad enough, but when there are even further reductions to an already truncated season, it becomes a farce.

When you have a full time team that is effectively playing once a fortnight against part time teams that have been squeezing 3 games a week in to fulfill fixtures, it just doesn't sit right with me. 

Yes BSJ, the club's voted for it preseason, and I can understand the probable reasons for doing it.

However, the club's also voted to reduce the funding for the club's outside SL once the new TV deal kicks in. Just because clubs vote for something, it doesn't make it right!

Having seen Toulouse up close I don’t think playing every week would have made any difference.  They are class.  Pure and simple.  Considering all the travelling with the associated nonsense that must involve these days  and the fact that nearly all their games are away I say good luck to em. 

[Blind side johnny]

8 hours ago, DOGFATHER said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/13/rfl-super-league-reform-smaller-clubs

The vote also included:-

Championship and League 1 clubs say that if the TV deal falls by any percentage, the amount Super League receives will remain unaffected. They, instead, are calling for the entire sport’s distribution to fall or rise together, rather than the RFL and lower leagues suffer a harsher fall in funding which they believe could lead to a potentially disastrous financial outlook for the game outside Super League.

Hence, why we are negotiating. If the reduction was the same percentage across the game, everyone would know what we are getting. I've heard rumours that the funding amount offered by SL to the Ch is circa £25k. 

If you read the interview with Ken Davy in League Express a few weeks ago he made very clear that all SL clubs will be seeing a reduction in Sky money next season. I have no idea where you got your information from but it is incorrect. You will also note that the article that you quote in from 2018 - I believe things have moved on since.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Blind side johnny

[DOGFATHER]

40 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

If you read the interview with Ken Davy in League Express a few weeks ago he made very clear that all SL clubs will be seeing a reduction in Sky money next season. I have no idea where you got your information from but it is incorrect. You will also note that the article that you quote in from 2018 - I believe things have moved on since.

Where did I say SL club's would not get a reduction in funding?

Of course they will not get the same amount as this year, as this contract is for much less than the previous deal.

I was pointing out that the initial vote in 2018 gave SL the ability to give as much, or little from the new deal as they want to. Any reduction in funding should have been for the same percentage for all member club's. Hence the vote to reduce funding I cited,  which Doncaster and Rochdale amongst others actually voted for!

If things have moved on, please can you reference an article that shows that is no longer the case.

If that position has indeed changed, surely there would be nothing to negotiate, and everyone would already know what the funding is going to be?

[Blind side johnny]

12 hours ago, DOGFATHER said:

Where did I say SL club's would not get a reduction in funding?

Of course they will not get the same amount as this year, as this contract is for much less than the previous deal.

I was pointing out that the initial vote in 2018 gave SL the ability to give as much, or little from the new deal as they want to. Any reduction in funding should have been for the same percentage for all member club's. Hence the vote to reduce funding I cited,  which Doncaster and Rochdale amongst others actually voted for!

If things have moved on, please can you reference an article that shows that is no longer the case.

If that position has indeed changed, surely there would be nothing to negotiate, and everyone would already know what the funding is going to be?

I am unsure what you are now arguing about. Your original point was that there should be no P&R but you seem to have abandoned that.

I pointed out that the clubs accepted the present situation in the light of the unique situation that the game had found itself to be in. Your reference to funding was an attempt to demonstrate that "just because clubs vote for something doesn't make it right". That is simply your subjective opinion.

I take it from all of this that you object to the idea of Toulouse being promoted. If that is the case why not just say so?

[coolie]

20 hours ago, DOGFATHER said:

Where did I say SL club's would not get a reduction in funding?

Of course they will not get the same amount as this year, as this contract is for much less than the previous deal.

I was pointing out that the initial vote in 2018 gave SL the ability to give as much, or little from the new deal as they want to. Any reduction in funding should have been for the same percentage for all member club's. Hence the vote to reduce funding I cited,  which Doncaster and Rochdale amongst others actually voted for!

If things have moved on, please can you reference an article that shows that is no longer the case.

If that position has indeed changed, surely there would be nothing to negotiate, and everyone would already know what the funding is going to be?

Wasn't Rochdale & Doncaster forced to vote for it by their DR super league clubs... In a "vote for it or else" manner

[coolie]

At such a late stage of the season still expect Toulouse to be promoted, Leigh to stay up as no one will come down, and eventually championship & championship 1 to merge to make super league 2 giving the lower teams more games to bring finance's in to survive

 

That's my projection of the game over the next 4 years

[Blind side johnny]

9 minutes ago, coolie said:

Wasn't Rochdale & Doncaster forced to vote for it by their DR super league clubs... In a "vote for it or else" manner

That was a different vote Coolie.

[Blind side johnny]

6 minutes ago, coolie said:

At such a late stage of the season still expect Toulouse to be promoted, Leigh to stay up as no one will come down, and eventually championship & championship 1 to merge to make super league 2 giving the lower teams more games to bring finance's in to survive

 

That's my projection of the game over the next 4 years

That is a popular scenario but would involve each SL taking a smaller slice of a diminished pot, so won't happen. Leigh will come down and DB will moan about it - it's an old tradition.

[Piggy's mate]

5 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

That was a different vote Coolie.

Was that at the same time Turkey's were voting on Xmas?

[Crown Flatter]

17 hours ago, Piggy's mate said:

Was that at the same time Turkey's were voting on Xmas?

Do you mean turkeys were voting on Christmas, or

the people of Turkey, a muslim country, were voting to include Christmas as part of their culture?

Edited July 20, 2021 by Crown Flatter

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

21 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

That is a popular scenario but would involve each SL taking a smaller slice of a diminished pot, so won't happen. Leigh will come down and DB will moan about it - it's an old tradition.

But there'll be no loop fixtures and attendances will rocket to make up the shortfall in Sky money..........or summat.

And you'll need another club (Magic weekend doesn't work with an odd number of teams) so best get London in too.....

Edited July 20, 2021 by Les Tonks Sidestep

[Blind side johnny]

57 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

But there'll be no loop fixtures and attendances will rocket to make up the shortfall in Sky money..........or summat.

And you'll need another club (Magic weekend doesn't work with an odd number of teams) so best get London in too.....

I did presume that Leigh would be replaced, levelling up the numbers.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

3 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

I did presume that Leigh would be replaced, levelling up the numbers.

It was a tongue firmly in cheek support of coolie's suggestion that you were (correctly) dismissing.......

Edited July 20, 2021 by Les Tonks Sidestep

[DOGFATHER]

On 19/07/2021 at 17:38, coolie said:

At such a late stage of the season still expect Toulouse to be promoted, Leigh to stay up as no one will come down, and eventually championship & championship 1 to merge to make super league 2 giving the lower teams more games to bring finance's in to survive

 

That's my projection of the game over the next 4 years

I think it will depend whether the French teams can negotiate a TV deal of their own. I could see SL going for that, if the two of them are not going to take money from the Sky deal. In essence, a 13 team division with sky money split 11 ways. 

Pulling a deal like that off might prove difficult though.

[Wakefield Ram]

Can we get the away game against Fev cancelled as well? It will save us another beating.

[graham fisher]

42 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Can we get the away game against Fev cancelled as well? It will save us another beating.

To be honest I think they will be a few games postponed over the next few weeks,in fact I wouldn’t be surprised if the season got cancelled again due to high numbers of Covid.