Cricket - Matches & General Discussion Thread

[gingerjon]

10 hours ago, Futtocks said:

England declared at 507 for 9. West Indies are currently 21 for 1.

71/1 at the close.

England slightly ahead of the draw with the bookies. There is still plenty of time left in the match but it's going to take something special to force a result unless the Windies implode.

[Futtocks]

Pakistan went from 248-4 to 268 all out in their first innings against Australia. So England aren't even the best in the world at batting collapses.

[Futtocks]

Two wickets down already, and one of them's Joe Root.

[Futtocks]

England 90 for 8.

[DavidM]

On 23/03/2022 at 13:03, Futtocks said:

Pakistan went from 248-4 to 268 all out in their first innings against Australia. So England aren't even the best in the world at batting collapses.

Well we weren’t having that ! We’ll show em 

[Futtocks]

7 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Well we weren’t having that ! We’ll show em 

Once again, we are "world-leading", to use one of our Prime Minister's favourite phrases.

[gingerjon]

If you miss out the matches involving Australia, the Women's World Cup has been surprisingly competitive throughout with plenty of decent games.

If you include Australia, you have to admire a team at the top of their game just turning out and playing their best each time they go out there.

Assuming the results go the way you'd expect in the final few group games then England will finish 3rd and the winner of their semi final will get to lose to the Aussies in the final.

[DavidM]

Our 10 and 11 faced roughly as many balls as everyone else 

[phiggins]

Absolutely appalling opening spell by Overton and Woakes. Overton improved slightly in his last spell, but Woakes is having an stinker of a winter.

[DavidM]

6 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Absolutely appalling opening spell by Overton and Woakes. Overton improved slightly in his last spell, but Woakes is having an stinker of a winter.

Yep , but we haven’t got any opening bowlers knocking about who’ve got lots and lots of wickets …

[Futtocks]

Do not try to out-spod this statistical colossus!

 

[gingerjon]

Whatever happens now, it's England v South Africa in the World Cup semi final.

Whatever happens now, England's red-ball-reset is a joke and the future direction of men's cricket cannot be left to people like Andrew Strauss or Rob Key - or the kind of people who think that Andrew Strauss and Rob Key are the right people to appoint.

But it will be.

[JonM]

20 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Whatever happens now, it's England v South Africa in the World Cup semi final.

Is that right? I thought there was still a chance that India could overtake England, and we would play Australia in the semi final instead.

[gingerjon]

Just now, JonM said:

Is that right? I thought there was still a chance that India could overtake England, and we would play Australia in the semi final instead.

India had to win by enough and, I believe, even if they win now they can only overtake the Windies and so finish 4th.

[phiggins]

23 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Whatever happens now, it's England v South Africa in the World Cup semi final.

Whatever happens now, England's red-ball-reset is a joke and the future direction of men's cricket cannot be left to people like Andrew Strauss or Rob Key - or the kind of people who think that Andrew Strauss and Rob Key are the right people to appoint.

But it will be.

To be honest, if I was in charge of English cricket, the first thing I'd do is ban the term "red ball reset". We seem to be the only country that feels like it cannot improve in one form of the game, without neglecting the other.

And while I'm at it, I'd ban the next test captain from saying "brand of cricket". Which seems to have come about since Eoin Morgan realised that limited overs cricket meant that you had a limited amount of overs to score your runs, and came up with the revolutionary tactic of batting deep and whacking it throughout the innings. Then for some reason, Root, Bayliss, Ed Smith et al thought that would transfer over to the test team.

[gingerjon]

I'm an absolute sucker for stuff like this - and, related, really think we have a perfect sport for doing it in RL but we never seem to ...

 

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, phiggins said:

To be honest, if I was in charge of English cricket, the first thing I'd do is ban the term "red ball reset". We seem to be the only country that feels like it cannot improve in one form of the game, without neglecting the other.

And while I'm at it, I'd ban the next test captain from saying "brand of cricket". Which seems to have come about since Eoin Morgan realised that limited overs cricket meant that you had a limited amount of overs to score your runs, and came up with the revolutionary tactic of batting deep and whacking it throughout the innings. Then for some reason, Root, Bayliss, Ed Smith et al thought that would transfer over to the test team.

We do overthink. We don't really need a red ball reset. We need a pathways opening. I don't want Rob Key anywhere near an organisational position but at least he has recognised that - even if his solutions wouldn't help. There aren't enough players of international standard out there in England right now - and those that are close aren't getting the development they need to get them over the line.

Also, I think you are so massively wrong about what Morgan did with the England white-ball team. He absolutely understood that in limited overs cricket the key word is limited. If you're a bowler you get 60 deliveries (24 in T20 obvs), if you're any batter other than the openers then you will have a diminishing number of balls to face. So it's about two things: balancing the team (and that can include finding batters who may face 20 balls every other match but can still make a difference) and bowlers who can do a job consistently. It isn't rocket science but it's also very much not about whacking it throughout the innings.

[phiggins]

27 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

We do overthink. We don't really need a red ball reset. We need a pathways opening. I don't want Rob Key anywhere near an organisational position but at least he has recognised that - even if his solutions wouldn't help. There aren't enough players of international standard out there in England right now - and those that are close aren't getting the development they need to get them over the line.

Also, I think you are so massively wrong about what Morgan did with the England white-ball team. He absolutely understood that in limited overs cricket the key word is limited. If you're a bowler you get 60 deliveries (24 in T20 obvs), if you're any batter other than the openers then you will have a diminishing number of balls to face. So it's about two things: balancing the team (and that can include finding batters who may face 20 balls every other match but can still make a difference) and bowlers who can do a job consistently. It isn't rocket science but it's also very much not about whacking it throughout the innings.

That's fair about Morgan. He found players to play specific roles, such as Plunkett in the middle overs when bowling and some ability at the death if needed, and Stokes / Buttler at the death etc... But I think my point about how transferrable it is to the test team still stands, given the roles are very different. That is why the talk of a brand of cricket, when related to the test match side annoys me.

Root, Bayliss, Silverwood etc... seem to see batting as something that is purely defensive, or purely attacking and not about building and innings and scoring runs in a variety of ways depending on a player's strengths. It frustrates me to see players like Burns, Sibley and Pope have promising spells that show they have talent, but then once they're figured out by opponents and go through a difficult spell, the magic coaching spell seems to be to have them stand on off stump, then ditch them. 

My big fear now is that Root keeps the captaincy by default, because there is nobody else guaranteed a place in the side, but there will never be anybody guaranteed a place in the side under his leadership.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, phiggins said:

That's fair about Morgan. He found players to play specific roles, such as Plunkett in the middle overs when bowling and some ability at the death if needed, and Stokes / Buttler at the death etc... But I think my point about how transferrable it is to the test team still stands, given the roles are very different. That is why the talk of a brand of cricket, when related to the test match side annoys me.

Root, Bayliss, Silverwood etc... seem to see batting as something that is purely defensive, or purely attacking and not about building and innings and scoring runs in a variety of ways depending on a player's strengths. It frustrates me to see players like Burns, Sibley and Pope have promising spells that show they have talent, but then once they're figured out by opponents and go through a difficult spell, the magic coaching spell seems to be to have them stand on off stump, then ditch them. 

My big fear now is that Root keeps the captaincy by default, because there is nobody else guaranteed a place in the side, but there will never be anybody guaranteed a place in the side under his leadership.

Aye, I think we're pretty close on this. Where things are transferrable are things like captaincy, preparation and coaching. I don't really like Morgan the man but I really do admire Morgan the captain. He seems to understand what his role is, takes time to learn and constantly takes the pressure off his players when they make mistakes or don't deliver. The white ball team has been showered with money but then the Test set up isn't poor. But the white ball side have plans that always seem to make sense and they do seem to support players through coaching.

Meanwhile, the red ball set-up complete half bakes everything, constantly undermines players, exposes individuals to press wrath and has decisions about everything from fielding placement in game to player rotation to game time for development that just seem to fly in the face of any kind of sense at all.

Burns, Sibley and Pope (and the rest) are obviously not bad players but the way we hang players out to dry - and expect them to somehow find the skills themselves even when their entire confidence has gone - is close to obscene.

[DavidM]

Root has to go . You just end up with nothing new to say , nothing new to offer , and we’ll be spared from those soul destroying management speak interviews after games where he speaks but doesn’t say anything other than cloud cuckoo land rubbish . I’ve never thought he was a good captain . He’s reactive , not astute tactically , to often defensive and doesn’t seem to see the moment he needs to grasp . Yes his cattle is average but his leadership of them over time has been uninspiring . The argument that he stays on because there’s no one else isn’t really a ringing endorsement . And the only reason I’d back Rob Key for any position is that it would get him out the commentary box  . On Morgan , he’s a brilliant captain - you see him and you know who’s in charge 

Edited March 28, 2022 by DavidM

[Futtocks]

The BBC are currently streaming Shane Warne's memorial service.

[gingerjon]

As expected, Australia absolutely hammer the Windies in the semi final.

Reduced to 45 overs, they still got past 300. Windies were 'all out' with eight wickets down. Can't fault their effort but when your board hasn't put in a domestic league since 2019 and you're up against the best resourced, prepared and focused side in history (who could probably beat any of the other 7 with their reserves) then there will be days like this.

England v South Africa later.

Winners gets to be stamped on by Australia in the final unless it rains and they sneak a bowl out.

[Futtocks]

22 hours ago, gingerjon said:

England v South Africa later.

SA 148 for 8, chasing 293. Something nice to wake up to.

[gingerjon]

10 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

SA 148 for 8, chasing 293. Something nice to wake up to.

You knew how in control England were because Ecclestone didn't come on to bowl until the 23rd over.

And then she took 6/36 because she's an actual freak.

Not the type of match I expected at all. Still can't see past an Australia win in the final. So much has to go right for England, and so much wrong for Australia, that it just seems ridiculous to even think it.

[Gerrumonside ref]

FYI - England vs Australia World Cup to be shown on FTA and YouTube:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/60953084