Cricket - Matches & General Discussion Thread

[gingerjon]

8 hours ago, Leeds Wire said:

How many paid?

Haven't you heard, it's gauche to ask about what profit(*) a tournament that was specifically created to make money is making?

It's all about positive vibes, family tickets (percentage lower than or equal to existing counties), women (paid less and with more chance of abandoned/incomplete games) and expanding the game by playing at fewer grounds.

Meanwhile, the franchises owners who were meant to be enticed to England are buying up in the Caribbean, South Africa and the USA. If we had a decent media, someone would be asking why.

(* average £5m loss per season just on its own costs)

[17 stone giant]

I guess we'll have to wait and see if they replace The Hundred, and what with.

[JonM]

On 29/08/2023 at 07:19, gingerjon said:

It's all about positive vibes, family tickets

Still a helluva lot of things the RFL and clubs should be taking note of and copying. 

My nieces went to a game at Old Trafford and have started playing cricket as a result. There was a roving spotlight/ camera that went round the crowd before the game, with dramatic music, and people's faces on the screen. They got randomly picked when the music stopped, and got to present the match ball to the bowling team at the start of the game. The kind of thing that gets all the kids in the crowd involved in the event, and costs nothing to do.

[gingerjon]

11 minutes ago, JonM said:

Still a helluva lot of things the RFL and clubs should be taking note of and copying. 

My nieces went to a game at Old Trafford and have started playing cricket as a result. There was a roving spotlight/ camera that went round the crowd before the game, with dramatic music, and people's faces on the screen. They got randomly picked when the music stopped, and got to present the match ball to the bowling team at the start of the game. The kind of thing that gets all the kids in the crowd involved in the event, and costs nothing to do.

Absolutely agree that aspects like that have been done really well - and cricket can be quite chuffed at how well it does do the family atmosphere at games most of the time.

[17 stone giant]

Good performance by England in the T20 at Durham. Some big hitting from Brook and co. Hope for more of the same in the remaining three matches. Nice to see that a couple of them are live on the BBC.

[DavidM]

Harry Brook not in the WC squad … I mean really 

[THE RED ROOSTER]

Yorkshire's financial woes may lead to selling Headingley

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-12466077/Yorkshire-considering-SELLING-Headingley-raise-funds-cash-strapped-county-struggle-secure-20m-investment-ensure-survival-famous-ground-valued-23m.html

[JonM]

3 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Yorkshire's financial woes may lead to selling Headingley

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-12466077/Yorkshire-considering-SELLING-Headingley-raise-funds-cash-strapped-county-struggle-secure-20m-investment-ensure-survival-famous-ground-valued-23m.html

Quality bit of of journalism there: "The purchase cost them £12m, so almost doubling their money in 18 years would be a good return"

Well, yes, if we hadn't seen property prices generally more than double over the same period and we ignore the tens of millions spent on redeveloping Headingley.

[THE RED ROOSTER]

Benjamin Sisraei is alleged to have said there are lies, damned lies and statistics...

On August 2nd the twitter site Being Outside Cricket reported that

Quote

The number of BBC viewers for this season's The Hundred opener was down 33% from 2022, and 61% down from 2021

https://twitter.com/OutsideCricket/status/1686716317976371200/photo/1

Instandly the ECB responded trying to seize the narrative caliming an audiencer of 3.97 million for the on a par with Eastenders

https://twitter.com/InnoBystander/status/1686740542980333570/photo/1

This is easily explained by BOC

Quote

There are different measurements of TV audience which you can use. 4 million people may have watched any three-minute segment between 6.30-10pm on BBC 2, Sky Sports, Sky Showcase, etc. This is called the reach. The figures in our tweet are the average number of viewers on BBC 2

But they have avoided making any further comments since.

This allowed the folowing piece of agitprop from the ECB at the conclusion of the to go unchallenged

Quote

Attendances have been strong. ECB data says 580,000 tickets were sold for the tournament (more than the first two years), with around 300,000 people in early enough for the women’s games. The women’s final had an attendance of 21,636, a record for women’s cricket in the UK. Indeed, record ground attendances of well over 10,000 have been daily occurrences for women’s matches.

...Sky, who invest around £200m in English cricket each year, are delighted with the tournament’s progress, with an eight per cent increase in viewers per men’s match and 20 per cent per women’s.

https://twitter.com/willis_macp/status/1696131731961557335

You may not be aware that the ECB wines and dines the Cricket writers befoire the season starts , preferential treatment goes to those who toe the party line in respect of "scoops" / Kite-flying. Client Journalism must explain the following which has gone - like the rest of the cricket season during the largely unreported

Quote

Despite being played outside of the height of the summer, more than 800,000 fans attended Blast fixtures across its six-week window, with the ECB reporting that the competition had enjoyed its second-highest advanced tickets sales ever (up 16% on 2022).

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/t20-blast-finals-day-set-for-september-due-to-world-cup-clash-1395105

As regards the TV deal for this bonus to the game quoting from page 17 of the Kent CCC annual report and Financial statement for the yewar ended 31st October 2022

Quote

.."as a game we have to accept that over a 4 year period, even if the rate of inflation were to average aqt 5%, the game will see a 20% reduction in broadcast income by the end of year 4 (of the SKY deal).

There simply is no more money available to subsidise the urban bourgoise to watch their competition and no more money to pay international "stars" to play in the as oppseed to the much better funded and IPL backed Caribbean Premier League and US Major League Cricket both of which will eat into next summer unless.... You get the IPL owners to to buy into Franchises / Counties

One of the "news" stories reported as a "scoop" was that it is proposed that in 2024 the Blast is no longer a Northern and Southern Group but mixed teams so for example, Kent wiould play Yorkshire which is something I was asked fill in a questionnaire on a couple of weeks ago as you too can have your say through the Cricket Supporters Assocation Surevy

https://crweblab.com/WebProd/cgi-bin/AskiaExt.dll?Action=DoInterview&Survey=3XR1LDTZJAXO6VMF&Intvw=3XR0H01FY1V2RF16

From a Cricket POV it makes sense to add variety to the Blast but it also paves the way for a 8 team premier league and 10 team second division of which only the premier league clubs are on TV with private investment, mainly from IPL owners in the top eight Test match grounds.

The plus would be some retention of county identity and playing in the same format as the rest of the world.

Sir Geoffrey Boycott;'s co-author , John Hotten agrees:

Quote

Actually the future of the men's Hundred is glaringly obvious: become a T20 comp and hitch/sell the franchises to the global T20 IPL brands or die. You can have that, ECB, for er... I dunno, a tenner.

Well my theory is that in a few years, franchise cricket will have harmonised in this way, with a year-round circuit and contracted players, like a sort of premier/champions league, leaving international windows. And county cricket survives underneath it in a different tier

 

That's not to say it's what I want, just what I think will happen, logically. And player development will split between the two.

https://twitter.com/theoldbatsman/status/1696211425004290361

So in a couple of years the Roses game for you Northerners, if Yorkshire is still around, may be MI Lancashire v Yorkshire Super Kings...

[Futtocks]

England choosing to bat first - unusual!

[Futtocks]

Kiwis 103 all out, chasing 199. Good win.

[DavidM]

17 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Kiwis 103 all out, chasing 199. Good win.

I was gonna say I’ll catch the highlights but for some reason Sky just replay 20/20 games in full

[Futtocks]

The T20 v New Zealand is about to start on BBC1.

[17 stone giant]

On 01/09/2023 at 14:28, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Cricket

1. I have no interest in arguing over attendances or viewing figures regarding The Hundred. Ultimately, the ECB (in conjunction with the other relevants parties - BBC, SKY, the counties, etc.) will have access to all the data they require in order to decide what to do going forward. If they're manipulating or cherry picking figures to suit, it will eventually be exposed anyway. They'd only be fooling themselves in the long term. I'll just keep enjoying the cricket until they scrap it, and then I'll take a look what they do instead to see if I'll like that too. But as I said before, cricket should be wary about going down the rugby league route and scrapping everything after a few years. It makes it look amateurish and incompetent.

2. I've read numerous people who are against The Hundred admit that they think 18 counties is too many for a premier competition and that some form of franchising is desirable. I've read elsewhere about the 8 and 10 idea and it was said that they wouldn't be using the county names. I'll wait and see what actually gets proposed more concretely before giving a full opinion on that.

3. Who cares what happens to the Roses game? It's already been made clear on the rugby league forum that Lancashire doesn't really exist and very few people from the former Lancashire care about a rivalry with Yorkshire. Plus you're all one big northern family and share the same culture and it's really only the south they have a hatred of. 

4. I don't follow closely The Blast - went to a Hampshire T20 game and watched and listened to bits of our route to another final - but don't really watch much else. Unlike The Hundred where I watch a lot, due to the format being more 'bitesize'. If you're going to make The Blast more important then mixing up north and south gives it more credibility. Doing things regionally is a bit tin pot, like the old Simod/ZDS Cup in football. Although I didn't think it was tin pot in 1992 when Southampton got to the final! The downside of course is the additional cost and time taken for travelling.

5. I agree that going forwards the calendar will need to try and find a way to accomodate all these new leagues, because there's no way T20 and perhaps even 100 ball cricket is going anywhere but up and forwards in terms of interest and money. I remain of the view that England needs a competition along the lines of The Hundred with 8 or so elite teams playing a smaller number of matches. Trying to accomodate 18 won't work. I don't see how you won't end up with that anyway if you start trying to do a two division thing. Unless you somehow redistribute the money, how will you stop the bigger counties like Surrey, Yorkshire, Lancashire, Nottinghamshire who are playing at the test grounds, from being far superior to little old Northampshire and Somerset? I suppose the positive in all this is that cricket seems to be in good shape. Rather than arguing about whether something can and should be played - like happens in RL - the debate instead is how you fit everything in.

[THE RED ROOSTER]

On 04/09/2023 at 10:55, 17 stone giant said:

1. I have no interest in arguing over attendances or viewing figures regarding The Hundred.

In response, Firstly, thank you for confirming that attenders basically have little if any interest in other forms of the game. This is what most County members feel.

1  What sporting governing body declines to provide details of its accounts to its own shareholders, The ECB does when the Worcester chair Fanos Hira investigated the accounts and was able toi prove that  the is loss making enterprize he was denied access to a chunk of the accounts

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/the-hundred-loss-ecb-finances-county-cricket-central-contracts-yorkshire/

Many journalists connected with cricket from George Dobell, Simon Wilde and Ali Martin of The Guardian who broke the Bonus scandal  are digging into this, with rumours of payments to "social media influencers " being made by the ECB.

Here a link here to The Grumbler's weekly newsletter which covers the debate.

https://countycricket.substack.com/p/no-103-sept-2-the-grumblers-county

As for compriosons with league, the good things is that when there have been clunkers, Club-call and the 8 x 8 these have been dispensed with quickly. It's gooid to recognise when a mistake has been made.

2 Franchises are parasitical, they do not create players nor look after them when injured. The Counties all but three are member owned, would be mad to cede part of the summer to private equity. The current idea being a "golden share" held by the counties / ECB. Unfortunatel;y, what the m,embers want and want CEO's want are two distinct things and as with everything else in UK life today, Short-termism and greed may end up making a rod for the game's back.

3  I have been called many things in life. and on the board, but a Northerner...

4  See my opening paragraph.

5  Any two division structure will inevitably favour the Test Match Grounds, Surrey earns £ 30 million per year, Kent £ 8 million. It's obvious there is a disparity in resources even without the booze sales from the widening the gap. If you did folow the blast you would note that of the eight quarter-finalist over the last few years the same names are recurring and they are the monied Test Match Grounds.

I would not be too sure about the which no-one else plays or T20 going on an ever upward curve. Australia has cut back the Big Bash League this season and even in India there is a bit of a decline in viewership, hence the gimmicks being brought into the IPL.

If T20 is cricket's version of McDonald's then all I will conclude in saying is that eating the plain fayre in a fast food servery gets a bit samey after a while and in the long term is no good for you.

 

[THE RED ROOSTER]

Yorjkshire now to be sold to Rajastan Royals

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-12488799/Rajasthan-Royals-launch-sensational-takeover-bid-Yorkshire-IPL-sides-asking-price-set-25m.html

A little bit of background here, this is not the first time that Rajastan Royals have tied in with an English county there was a short lived tie-in with Hampshire whereby they spent a year as part of the "Royals family". Easy to do as Rod Brnasgrove is the owner not te members.

Red Bird Capital mentioned in the article is also involved in funding the XFL in the USA

https://redbirdcap.com/companies/#team-8-info

Lachlan Murdch also mentioned is the heir apparent to the Murdoch Millions.

Rajastan Royals were suspended by the IPL for two years from 2015-2017 over players engaged in Match fixibng.

Mike ashley who may get Headingley is well known if not loved by Newcastle Soccer fans.

Colin Graves grandfather to the and ECB chair at the time of Rafiq allegations is set to profit out of this as part of the conditions of any deal will resolve the issue of the £ 15 million owed to the Graves family trust.

Yourkshire fans still in denial- see "finances" thread

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/whiteroseforum/finances-t13715-s330.html?sid=305e1a9b19949bd7ebde69773c3e36bc

Edited September 7, 2023 by THE RED ROOSTER

[17 stone giant]

16 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Firstly, thank you for confirming that attenders basically have little if any interest in other forms of the game. This is what most County members feel.

With this nonsense, you lost my interest in discussing anything with you. I would however recommend that you go back to your County member chums and inform them that way to improve and increase interest in the sport they profess to love, isn't to alienate people by judging them and attempting to belittle them. They might achieve more that way.

[DavidM]

I know my minces are going a bit but at times i find it hard to see the white ball against the pitch in sunny conditions . 

[Wolford6]

I watched a bit of today's One Day International at Cardiff.

England fielding; Ben Stokes was discusing the bowling tactics with bowler Chris Woakes. Looked like he was actually giving Chris "very strong advice".

The camera panned to Joss Buttler, the ODI captain, behind the stumps. He didn't look the happiest I've ever seen him.

[tim2]

A slight aside - Freddie Flintoff looked a bit rough considering it's 9 months since his accident.

If Top Gear does resume maybe they'll stop amateur drivers from doing risky stuff. In fact, they should have stopped it after Hammond nearly died.

[Wolford6]

22 hours ago, tim2 said:

maybe they'll stop amateur drivers from doing risky stuff. In fact, they should have stopped it after Hammond nearly died.

Personally, I'd hope not before they let Clarkson have a go.

[Futtocks]

On 10/09/2023 at 12:48, Wolford6 said:

Personally, I'd hope not before they let Clarkson have a go.

Tricky, seeing as he was axed from the programme over eight years ago.

[Wolford6]

20 hours ago, Futtocks said:

Tricky, seeing as he was axed from the programme over eight years ago.

Not literally, I hope.

[THE RED ROOSTER]

World Cup starting and a lack of interest on the forum.

I have a bad feeling about the aging England side with a lot of players past their peak playing on past form rather than present. One acid test being tomorrow against New Zealand in a game that could determine 4th spot behind India, Pakistan and Australia.

The good news is all of England's games Save Bangladesh next Tuesday are starting 09:30am (08:30 when the clocks go back) Will be a very tight game against a Kiwi side who reumouir has it have opted to rest Kane Williamson.

One of the usual suspects, paid  booster, a man who is on record as  demanding three counties be axed and now MCC chairman, a establishment job for a ex-public schoolboy chooses this moment to trash the 50 over game.

[17 stone giant]

1 hour ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

World Cup starting and a lack of interest on the forum.

I'll keep a check on the scores, but I doubt I'll watch that much of it - perhaps the semi finals/final, if England get there. To be honest I haven't even checked what channel it's on, but I'm assuming it will be Sky.

My reasons are that I'm not as interested in cricket outside of the summer months, although I do try and follow England test matches over the winter, especially the Ashes.

I'm also not that big a fan of one day matches. I prefer Test matches and T20s.