BARLA CUP FINAL

[tms]

Featherstone Rovers

BARLA CUP FINAL | We can’t wait to welcome both players and supporters from Waterhead ARLFC and Sharlston Rovers to the Millennium this Sunday as they face off in the BarlaCups National Cup Final! this Sunday at 2pm

 

 

[Davo5]

5 minutes ago, POR said:

Featherstone Rovers

BARLA CUP FINAL | We can’t wait to welcome both players and supporters from Waterhead ARLFC and Sharlston Rovers to the Millennium this Sunday as they face off in the BarlaCups National Cup Final! this Sunday at 2pm

 

 

Real shame to see how far this once great competition has declined,from the amateur games flagship to a glorified pub team trophy.

[Fevrover]

Hoping to go with no Fev game.

[fighting irish]

2 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Real shame to see how far this once great competition has declined,from the amateur games flagship to a glorified pub team trophy.

To what do you attribute the so called decline?

I'm not trying to draw you into a trap, I just don't know what's happened to BARLA in the last 30 years and I'm interested in your take on it. 

[yipyee]

3 hours ago, fighting irish said:

To what do you attribute the so called decline?

I'm not trying to draw you into a trap, I just don't know what's happened to BARLA in the last 30 years and I'm interested in your take on it. 

This could become a 500 page thread....

[fighting irish]

9 hours ago, yipyee said:

This could become a 500 page thread....

Yes, but i'd be eager to hear the story.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

Yes, but i'd be eager to hear the story.

Okay i'll give you a couple for a start. The NCL is now, and has been for the past 10+ years, the dominant league system at amateur level - it is completely unaffiliated with BARLA which has historically caused problems just because of that very point. Then the fact BARLA cup comps are played through the winter, which again does not align to the NCL season and therefore means, at best, most clubs enter 2nd string and/or young teams into it...if they even bother that is. And if all of that doesn't sour the taste enough you then have the ridiculous rule(s) around players not being eligible if they've ever played pro at any level - which when you consider the amount of lads who've had spells at league one clubs (where the level is arguably lower than NCL premier in many cases) you can see how it really dilutes the quality of the sides. 

All of that said - it does still hold prestige in a lot of club houses to say you're National Cup champions and Sharlston getting to the final is an example of a side where summer rugby has never really take off and they see this as a chance to compete against some, albeit slightly watered down, NCL teams. Good luck to both sides! 

[Davo5]

9 hours ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Okay i'll give you a couple for a start. The NCL is now, and has been for the past 10+ years, the dominant league system at amateur level - it is completely unaffiliated with BARLA which has historically caused problems just because of that very point. Then the fact BARLA cup comps are played through the winter, which again does not align to the NCL season and therefore means, at best, most clubs enter 2nd string and/or young teams into it...if they even bother that is. And if all of that doesn't sour the taste enough you then have the ridiculous rule(s) around players not being eligible if they've ever played pro at any level - which when you consider the amount of lads who've had spells at league one clubs (where the level is arguably lower than NCL premier in many cases) you can see how it really dilutes the quality of the sides. 

All of that said - it does still hold prestige in a lot of club houses to say you're National Cup champions and Sharlston getting to the final is an example of a side where summer rugby has never really take off and they see this as a chance to compete against some, albeit slightly watered down, NCL teams. Good luck to both sides! 

It was a real shame the Yorkshire mafia at BARLA ganged up to make sure one of their own got the chair instead of Stuart Prior who had a real vision for the amateur game and could have brought all members of the community board together with the added benefit of a National Cup restored to its illustrious place.

[theswanmcr]

9 hours ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Okay i'll give you a couple for a start. The NCL is now, and has been for the past 10+ years, the dominant league system at amateur level - it is completely unaffiliated with BARLA which has historically caused problems just because of that very point. Then the fact BARLA cup comps are played through the winter, which again does not align to the NCL season and therefore means, at best, most clubs enter 2nd string and/or young teams into it...if they even bother that is. And if all of that doesn't sour the taste enough you then have the ridiculous rule(s) around players not being eligible if they've ever played pro at any level - which when you consider the amount of lads who've had spells at league one clubs (where the level is arguably lower than NCL premier in many cases) you can see how it really dilutes the quality of the sides. 

All of that said - it does still hold prestige in a lot of club houses to say you're National Cup champions and Sharlston getting to the final is an example of a side where summer rugby has never really take off and they see this as a chance to compete against some, albeit slightly watered down, NCL teams. Good luck to both sides! 

Thanks for this from someone who was also wondering about the history.

It’s reassuring that the governance of the sport is a basket case at all levels.

[del capo]

On 06/04/2022 at 20:04, fighting irish said:

To what do you attribute the so called decline?

I'm not trying to draw you into a trap, I just don't know what's happened to BARLA in the last 30 years and I'm interested in your take on it. 

30 years ago there was a serious attempt by some at Barla and the RFL to re-unify the game. That produced push back by 'traditionalists' within  Barla . who won but lost good people as a consequence.

The Sports Council eventually stepped in and forced a marriage but by then Barla had sustained  self inflicted wounds. They even managed to expel the NCL. from its ranks.

Others followed  over the years and few now bother to attend meetings.  A resistance to summer rugby and  an inability to rediscover itself  governmentally ( the voting structure still lies in most cases with dormant or non existent District Leagues rather than active clubs ) or converse progressively with other stakeholders in the game has not helped... 

What has happened to Barla in the last 30 years - your question - is perhaps for their current leaders to answer...    

[fighting irish]

1 hour ago, del capo said:

30 years ago there was a serious attempt by some at Barla and the RFL to re-unify the game. That produced push back by 'traditionalists' within  Barla . who won but lost good people as a consequence.

The Sports Council eventually stepped in and forced a marriage but by then Barla had sustained  self inflicted wounds. They even managed to expel the NCL. from its ranks.

Others followed  over the years and few now bother to attend meetings.  A resistance to summer rugby and  an inability to rediscover itself  governmentally ( the voting structure still lies in most cases with dormant or non existent District Leagues rather than active clubs ) or converse progressively with other stakeholders in the game has not helped... 

What has happened to Barla in the last 30 years - your question - is perhaps for their current leaders to answer...    

Thank you for answering my query. Would you take the trouble to elaborate a bit? Can you describe the ''push back'' and what you meant by the traditionalists winning?

Can you tell me what the self inflicted wounds they sustained were and how the came to expel the NCL? Which others followed (where? Do you mean into expulsion) and why did that result in the meetings being poorly attended?

To what do you attribute the resistance to Summer Rugby and (perhaps more importantly) the resistance to progressive change?

Finally, who can I ask (for more information) who is representative of the current leaders?

[Futtocks]

On 07/04/2022 at 09:57, hunsletgreenandgold said:

the ridiculous rule(s) around players not being eligible if they've ever played pro at any level

Almost as idiotic and self-damaging as RU's rules against RL "contamination" during their shamateurism era.

[fighting irish]

7 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Almost as idiotic and self-damaging as RU's rules against RL "contamination" during their shamateurism era.

What are the other idiotic rules?

 

[Futtocks]

8 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

What are the other idiotic rules?

Sorry; accidental plural. Just a single gigantic stupid rule.

[fighting irish]

2 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Sorry; accidental plural. Just a single gigantic stupid rule.

Why on earth do you think BARLA maintain this S.G.S.R.?

I mean, what's in it for them?

[del capo]

2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Thank you for answering my query. Would you take the trouble to elaborate a bit? Can you describe the ''push back'' and what you meant by the traditionalists winning?

Can you tell me what the self inflicted wounds they sustained were and how the came to expel the NCL? Which others followed (where? Do you mean into expulsion) and why did that result in the meetings being poorly attended?

To what do you attribute the resistance to Summer Rugby and (perhaps more importantly) the resistance to progressive change?

Finally, who can I ask (for more information) who is representative of the current leaders?

 In the 90's the President  of BARLA secured a mandate from the floor  to negotiate a settlement.That sort of power frightened some on the BARLA committee and they fettered his ability to do a deal by insisting on 2 other reps being present as well. Still negotiated a deal worth £1 m a year to the amateur game ( we are talking 1990's here ) but the hard liners would have none of it.

You either trust your top people to do the right thing or you don't.  Barla  Exec didn't and the President chose not to seek re-election thereafter........

 In the 2000's the NCL sanctioned a club for failing to keep the rules.  That club took the matter to Barla who  on appeal chose ( largely for political reasons ) to over rule the NCL committee.  NCL declined to accept the result and Barla expelled them.

I still remember the ' Peace meeting ' at Blackbrook overseen by Big Nigel. Suffice it to say that NCL came out of it intact and have not looked back since.

Barla over the years have generally been perceived as traditionalist. It has been , whether that be a switch to summer or otherwise. in their nature to resist anything new.

If you want more info on Barla today, ask the next vice president of the RFL , Sue Taylor ,  or  Steve Manning . They keep a web site largely up to date.

 

[fighting irish]

1 hour ago, del capo said:

 In the 90's the President  of BARLA secured a mandate from the floor  to negotiate a settlement.That sort of power frightened some on the BARLA committee and they fettered his ability to do a deal by insisting on 2 other reps being present as well. Still negotiated a deal worth £1 m a year to the amateur game ( we are talking 1990's here ) but the hard liners would have none of it.

You either trust your top people to do the right thing or you don't.  Barla  Exec didn't and the President chose not to seek re-election thereafter........

 In the 2000's the NCL sanctioned a club for failing to keep the rules.  That club took the matter to Barla who  on appeal chose ( largely for political reasons ) to over rule the NCL committee.  NCL declined to accept the result and Barla expelled them.

I still remember the ' Peace meeting ' at Blackbrook overseen by Big Nigel. Suffice it to say that NCL came out of it intact and have not looked back since.

Barla over the years have generally been perceived as traditionalist. It has been , whether that be a switch to summer or otherwise. in their nature to resist anything new.

If you want more info on Barla today, ask the next vice president of the RFL , Sue Taylor ,  or  Steve Manning . They keep a web site largely up to date.

 

You mention the £1 million per year for the amateur game, (then) but what kind of support do they ( BARLA and/or the NCL) get these days?

[del capo]

26 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

You mention the £1 million per year for the amateur game, (then) but what kind of support do they ( BARLA and/or the NCL) get these days?

They were different times then.

Barla once controlled the whole community game ( income and expenditure ) but over the years that has become the responsibility of the RFL overseen by the Community Board.

Neither Barla nor NCL receive direct financial support now.

RFL continue to supply an employee for NCL ( and other playing leagues ).

RFL applies between £1 .5 and £2m per year to the community game at present but negotiates / controls all income and spend.

[fighting irish]

2 minutes ago, del capo said:

They were different times then.

Barla once controlled the whole community game ( income and expenditure ) but over the years that has become the responsibility of the RFL overseen by the Community Board.

Neither Barla nor NCL receive direct financial support now.

RFL continue to supply an employee for NCL ( and other playing leagues ).

RFL applies between £1 .5 and £2m per year to the community game at present but negotiates / controls all income and spend.

Thank you for the information.

I think its a shame that the game below the RFL (once, I believed a great strength) seems to be in such disarray.

Do you think it still has a place? Can it provide a vision for the amateur game?

Can it be reformed, refreshed, or is it just a malingering spent force?  

[del capo]

2 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Thank you for the information.

I think its a shame that the game below the RFL (once, I believed a great strength) seems to be in such disarray.

Do you think it still has a place? Can it provide a vision for the amateur game?

Can it be reformed, refreshed, or is it just a malingering spent force?  

Irish the game itself at amateur level is not in disarray.

NCL is in good shape and the Tier 5 regional  playing leagues are doing  o.k. as far as I'm aware.There is a fairly effective governance structure  both up and down the line.

What you seem to be asking is  ' what is the role for BARLA now ? '

Only they can answer that. They are an intrical part of the history of TGG and still a significant stakeholder- they have after all a seat on the Full Council.

But they do need to re- invent themselves, as you say refresh , reform  and maybe even seek to re-establish  their voice as real representatives of at least some of the core parts of the community game.

You otherwise have to ask what purpose they serve............

[fighting irish]

30 minutes ago, del capo said:

Irish the game itself at amateur level is not in disarray.

NCL is in good shape and the Tier 5 regional  playing leagues are doing  o.k. as far as I'm aware.There is a fairly effective governance structure  both up and down the line.

What you seem to be asking is  ' what is the role for BARLA now ? '

Only they can answer that. They are an intrical part of the history of TGG and still a significant stakeholder- they have after all a seat on the Full Council.

But they do need to re- invent themselves, as you say refresh , reform  and maybe even seek to re-establish  their voice as real representatives of at least some of the core parts of the community game.

You otherwise have to ask what purpose they serve............

This question of purpose is what I'm thinking about too.

I'm trying to discover if BARLA has a development agenda, or if they are content operating in maintenance mode.

I'd be disappointed to hear that they don't have development on the agenda at every league meeting throughout the amateur game.

Even if they are volunteers (only) I can't see any reason why they can't promote the spread of the game. I don't just mean paying lip service but actually organising and making some real efforts towards new and sustainable growth.

To my mind, it's not enough to just maintain the status quo.

Some time in each committee meeting should be spent discussing what they can do and reporting on what they have just done, to increase participation.

Perhaps, the re-invention you mention above might (ought to) include that kind of commitment. 

[snoopdog]

The amateur game is dying in many areas , Cumbria being one! While the teams in the NCL thrive ,the CARLA league is on the verge of collapse yet the management sit by and watch, £££ sitting in bank accounts but yet offer nothing for development etc .

[Fevrover]

On 08/04/2022 at 21:43, snoopdog said:

The amateur game is dying in many areas , Cumbria being one! While the teams in the NCL thrive ,the CARLA league is on the verge of collapse yet the management sit by and watch, £££ sitting in bank accounts but yet offer nothing for development etc .

Crazy really is.

[Fevrover]

HT 18 - 0 to Waterhead, huge difference in the teams.

[Marauder]

On 06/04/2022 at 17:15, Davo5 said:

Real shame to see how far this once great competition has declined,from the amateur games flagship to a glorified pub team trophy.

FFS If you check it's history you'll find pub teams did very well in it and Sharlston have a clubhouse and so do Waterhead, in fact ask any of the players taking part in the final if it's declined in their eyes, then ask the NCL why it has declined from their prospective. bearing in mind that Waterhead had to fulfil a league fixture in the NCL Div 3 yesterday.