Why don't rugby league people in England receive knighthoods?

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

What other sports are yet to have anyone knighted alongside Rugby League? I’m sure there are some but I’m struggling to come up with anything.

This is a list of sporting knights.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sporting_knights_and_dames 

Take out New Zealand who seem to shower them like confetti, according to that list anyway, so, for the UK:

Netball, basketball, swimming, diving, martial arts, speedway, squash

The badminton lad seems to have got his for being high up in the IOC rather than being amazing at hitting cocks.

[Barley Mow]

2 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

What other sports are yet to have anyone knighted alongside Rugby League? I’m sure there are some but I’m struggling to come up with anything.

This is a list of sporting knights.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sporting_knights_and_dames 

So from that list it seems New Zealand as well as UK rugby league personalities are under represented in knighthoods bestowed.

That said, NZ have knighted Sir Graham Lowe (the only primarily RL name on the rugby list), but apparently this was for for services to youth and education rather than to RL.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

I didn’t realise Scottish Rugby Union legend Sir Ian McGeechan was actually Leeds born and bred, it doesn’t seem to bother the other code when heritage players represent counties other than their place of birth and where they were brought up.

[RL Sonja]

13 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

So from that list it seems New Zealand as well as UK rugby league personalities are under represented in knighthoods bestowed.

That said, NZ have knighted Sir Graham Lowe (the only primarily RL name on the rugby list), but apparently this was for for services to youth and education rather than to RL.

The Mad Butcher has one for charitable duties too but he is mostly known for his love and support for the great game. 

[JohnM]

I've just written to the Rugby League APPG asking them to have a look at the article and the issues it raises. I hope that this, along with the various actions taken by RL Sonja, the OP, will bear fruit.

Members of the Rugby League APPG include: ( party allegiance deleted as this is not a political issue)

Lord Hoyle - Life peer

Lindsay Hoyle - Speaker

Marie Rimmer - St Helens South and Whiston

Mark Pawsey - Rugby

Tonia Antoniazzi - Gower

Chris Green - Bolton West

James Grundy - Leigh

Jason McCartney - Colne Valley

Catherine West - Hornsey and Wood Green

Charlotte Nichols - Warrington North

Jessica Morden - Newport East

Baroness Blake of Leeds -Life peer

Lord Caine - Life peer

Lord Mann - Life peer

Mike Amesbury - Weaver Vale

Nick Smith - Blaenau Gwent

Scott Benton - Blackpool South

Yvonne Fovargue - Makerfield

[Oxford]

Why don't rugby league people in England receive knighthoods?

 

Because they don't have much time left to collect them between changing the rules, avoiding moaning fans, darning their cloth caps, whippet training and collecting their parcel from the food bank.

 

[Big Picture]

On 16/04/2022 at 09:11, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

I didn’t realise Scottish Rugby Union legend Sir Ian McGeechan was actually Leeds born and bred, it doesn’t seem to bother the other code when heritage players represent counties other than their place of birth and where they were brought up.

According to his Wikipedia entry his father was a Scot from Glasgow, and players representing the country of their father's birth has long been accepted in soccer and evidently in RU too.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

23 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

According to his Wikipedia entry his father was a Scot from Glasgow, and players representing the country of their father's birth has long been accepted in soccer and evidently in RU too.

Along with representing the country of their mother’s birth or any of their grandparents birth, virtually all sports have similar international eligibility rules

[Big Picture]

3 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Along with representing the country of their mother’s birth or any of their grandparents birth, virtually all sports have similar international eligibility rules

No, that's not true.  At least half of the team sports which have a World Cup or World Championship (basketball, baseball, handball, hockey, ice hockey and lacrosse all included) base eligibility on citizenship and require players either to be citizens of the country they represent or (in some sports only) be eligible to become citizens.  Most of those would only allow a player to represent the country of a grandparent's birth if that country's law made him eligible for citizenship on that basis.

[RL Sonja]

The trend is other sports adopting our eligibility rules rather than the other way around (see union). 

[RL Sonja]

On 19/04/2022 at 22:40, JohnM said:

I've just written to the Rugby League APPG asking them to have a look at the article and the issues it raises. I hope that this, along with the various actions taken by RL Sonja, the OP, will bear fruit.

Members of the Rugby League APPG include: ( party allegiance deleted as this is not a political issue)

Lord Hoyle - Life peer

Lindsay Hoyle - Speaker

Marie Rimmer - St Helens South and Whiston

Mark Pawsey - Rugby

Tonia Antoniazzi - Gower

Chris Green - Bolton West

James Grundy - Leigh

Jason McCartney - Colne Valley

Catherine West - Hornsey and Wood Green

Charlotte Nichols - Warrington North

Jessica Morden - Newport East

Baroness Blake of Leeds -Life peer

Lord Caine - Life peer

Lord Mann - Life peer

Mike Amesbury - Weaver Vale

Nick Smith - Blaenau Gwent

Scott Benton - Blackpool South

Yvonne Fovargue - Makerfield

Genuinely thanks for doing this. Will be interested in the response. 

[JohnM]

7 hours ago, RL Sonja said:

Genuinely thanks for doing this. Will be interested in the response. 

Will report back. Nothing as yet. May I encourage people to contact their own MPs. linking to the article and asking them for advice on the issue.

 

 

[fieldofclothofgold]

On 07/04/2022 at 03:18, RL Sonja said:

Didn't want to sidetrack the Burrow thread...

https://thecritic.co.uk/class-matters-why-rugby-league-players-dont-receive-knighthoods/

Frankly it is pathetic and needs to change. And I'm not just talking about Sinfield.

Neil Fox won a World Cup as captain 1960 - nothing.

Clive Sullivan won a World Cup as captain 1972 - nothing. 

You can't tell me J. WIlkinson earned his more waddling behind a huge pack of forwards and kicking the odd drop goal. 

 

Neil Fox who I greatly admire and should be a RL Knight ,but World Cup winning captain in 1960 ? I thought it was the late great Eric Ashton another one worthy of a Knighthood 

[RL Sonja]

16 hours ago, fieldofclothofgold said:

Neil Fox who I greatly admire and should be a RL Knight ,but World Cup winning captain in 1960 ? I thought it was the late great Eric Ashton another one worthy of a Knighthood 

Hats off to fieldofclothofgold. I went to the books to check the facts, rather than relying on my obviously failing knowledge...  

You are quite correct. Eric Ashton was captain of the winning 1960 World Cup team, not Neil Fox. Ashton also captained the 1962 Tour to Australia and Great Britain. An immense centre in his own right. Quite worthy of the accolade being discussed if it was awarded posthumously.

I'd still include Fox as a worthy Sir though too - still a remarkable player.  

JohnM my sincere apologies for the errors. Hopefully it doesn't upset the apple cart!

[RL Sonja]

That Ashton / Boston combination was quite something. 

[fieldofclothofgold]

4 hours ago, RL Sonja said:

Hats off to fieldofclothofgold. I went to the books to check the facts, rather than relying on my obviously failing knowledge...  

You are quite correct. Eric Ashton was captain of the winning 1960 World Cup team, not Neil Fox. Ashton also captained the 1962 Tour to Australia and Great Britain. An immense centre in his own right. Quite worthy of the accolade being discussed if it was awarded posthumously.

I'd still include Fox as a worthy Sir though too - still a remarkable player.  

JohnM my sincere apologies for the errors. Hopefully it doesn't upset the apple cart!

I'm not normally pedantic, but I couldn't let that one go .best wishes 

[Harry Stottle]

Watching the snooker the other day, the honours board of past Champions is in view when player's are being interviewed, not one of them has been Knighted but plenty OBE and MBE's, so is this another sport that has been dealt a disservice? I would hazard a guess that since Pot Black first hit our screens and moreso since the World Championships went to The Crucible 45 years ago in 1977 and got saturation FTA television coverage that there are far more Nationally famous people in Snooker than RL can boast in the same timescale. Not that I am saying RL player's should not be awarded the honour, but when spoke about in comparrison to the number of people who are actually aware of the Snooker player's as opposed to our RL performers it is understandable.

[HawkMan]

42 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Watching the snooker the other day, the honours board of past Champions is in view when player's are being interviewed, not one of them has been Knighted but plenty OBE and MBE's, so is this another sport that has been dealt a disservice? I would hazard a guess that since Pot Black first hit our screens and moreso since the World Championships went to The Crucible 45 years ago in 1977 and got saturation FTA television coverage that there are far more Nationally famous people in Snooker than RL can boast in the same timescale. Not that I am saying RL player's should not be awarded the honour, but when spoke about in comparrison to the number of people who are actually aware of the Snooker player's as opposed to our RL performers it is understandable.

That is 100% right Harry. Take Sir Steve Redgrave,  rowing is a minority sport but he is a Nationally known figure, thanks to our success in Olympic rowing. Or Sir Jackie Stewart,  F1 though immensely popular I would still classify as minority sport, but he is known nationally.  Knighthoods for local people are awarded for such fine achievements in Industry or Charity,  service to community,  sports Knighthoods for nationally recognised people even if their achievements are not necessarily National ones. 

If England win two World Cups this year, RLWC and FIFA , I expect Wane to get a OBE or MBE, Southgate though will be knighted. 

[Harry Stottle]

22 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

That is 100% right Harry. Take Sir Steve Redgrave,  rowing is a minority sport but he is a Nationally known figure, thanks to our success in Olympic rowing. Or Sir Jackie Stewart,  F1 though immensely popular I would still classify as minority sport, but he is known nationally.  Knighthoods for local people are awarded for such fine achievements in Industry or Charity,  service to community,  sports Knighthoods for nationally recognised people even if their achievements are not necessarily National ones. 

If England win two World Cups this year, RLWC and FIFA , I expect Wane to get a OBE or MBE, Southgate though will be knighted. 

Yes, Sir Lewis Hamilton?

[Bobby123]

On 07/04/2022 at 09:02, LeeF said:

Correct but you can nominate people and if they meet the requisite standard then they should get the appropriate award. I would hazard a guess that some very worthy people have not been nominated for a multitude of reasons 

And by the same token a lot of "unworthy" people have been nominated and have achieved the honours.

[JohnM]

An update on my attempt to raise this issue with the Rugby league APPG. 

I've had absolutely  no response.

Next up: I'll try to email Mr. Sir Speaker Hoyle, who is a member.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

An update on my attempt to raise this issue with the Rugby league APPG. 

I've had absolutely  no response.

Next up: I'll try to email Mr. Sir Speaker Hoyle, who is a member.

Why John?

Perhaps their is good reason you have not received any communication from the Parliamentary group, read Hawkmans post above and what I said about north to south and east to west coast nationally known snooker player's none of those have received the big gong, plenty OBE's & MBE's but no Knighthoods in their ranks, so you can see why a minority sport like RL doesn't achieve any also.

[JohnM]

I'm not making any claims. All I'm doing is asking the question raised in the piece that opened the topic and looking for a response, or maybe some useful advice on how to submit a case for an award.

[RigbyLuger]

2 hours ago, JohnM said:

An update on my attempt to raise this issue with the Rugby league APPG. 

I've had absolutely  no response.

Next up: I'll try to email Mr. Sir Speaker Hoyle, who is a member.

No surprise. The Bradford MP who puts her head above the parapet when the Bulls were denied an academy, but stayed silent when the club was being run unto the dirt. Not to tar MPs with the same brush.

[RL Sonja]

I’m sure they don’t want to rock the boat. Disappointing but expected.