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23 hours ago, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

Apparently they own the pitch, chaddy end, Rochdale rd and the old stand. The new stand is owned by someone else. I believe there's some legal case going through the courts at the moment.

Yes a quite bizarre arrangement....

Went downhill when they swapped the away end to the Chaddy road end...

(I'm one of those strange people who will happily support both clubs, though the Latics is very much cursory these days...)

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With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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10 hours ago, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

It has potential for development though. A joint application to the relevant funding authorities may help.

You could say that about anywhere though, admittedly, there is scope for developing Chadderton but don't think the local infrastructure would be suitable to host a professional sports stadium.

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15 hours ago, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

Do you know the irony of Oldham and the RFL is that the RFL for the first 35 years of its existence was run from Oldham by Joseph Platt, son of Oldham father of Rugby League. When he died he left a whole tranche of land and assets for community sports. He made the RFL the trustees of said assets. One of the areas he left, in trust, was exchanged for another piece of land . The original land is now a Morrisons store.  The new ground, of which the RFL are still trustees, is used by hollinwood ARFL club. Who, I believe, are not keen on any developments.

Whilst I know about Joseph Platt, I was not aware the RFL are trustees of a huge piece of land in Oldham. Tell us more, please.

But so we have then.

Oldham RLFC. Plays at a minimal standard rented football ground

RFL Has an open stretch of land where there is space for three RL pitches and is next to the Metrolink. Hollinwood RLFC play here as well.

St Anne's RLFC play at their own ground near the Metrolink

It is a simple mathematical sum, where the clubs, the RFL, the council, others like Sports England et al, the supporters, tfgm, Andy Burnham and any local financiers can produce.

1. A Championship standard ground.

2. A Championship standard training facility

3. Enhanced facilities for two amatuer clubs.

4. Community facilities

5. All easily accessible by public transport. 

Winners RL, Oldham, Hollinwood and St Anne's RLFCs and the people of Oldham. 

And as for the other suggestion - Chadderton FC.

My Google Earth measurer says the site is 13,700 square meters. There is adjunct empty land to the north behind the Fire Station that could be used. 

More than plenty to build a Championship standard ground on.

Think Salford City FC and how they turned £5m into a 5000 capacity ground. Its possible and affordable.

Edited by idrewthehaggis
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2 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Whilst I know about Joseph Platt, I was not aware the RFL are trustees of a huge piece of land in Oldham. Tell us more, please.

But so we have then.

Oldham RLFC. Plays at a minimal standard rented football ground

RFL Has an open stretch of land where there is space for three RL pitches and is next to the Metrolink. Hollinwood RLFC play here as well.

St Anne's RLFC play at their own ground near the Metrolink

It is a simple mathematical sum, where the clubs, the RFL, the council, others like Sports England et al, the supporters, tfgm, Andy Burnham and any local financiers can produce.

1. A Championship standard ground.

2. A Championship standard training facility

3. Enhanced facilities for two amatuer clubs.

4. Community facilities

5. All easily accessible by public transport. 

Winners RL, Oldham, Hollinwood and St Anne's RLFCs and the people of Oldham. 

And as for the other suggestion - Chadderton FC.

My Google Earth measurer says the site is 13,700 square meters. There is adjunct empty land to the north behind the Fire Station that could be used. 

More than plenty to build a Championship standard ground on.

Think Salford City FC and how they turned £5m into a 5000 capacity ground. Its possible and affordable.

If a 3000 capacity ground can be developed that would be crazy not to be a priority for rfl. 

Go from also ran to yet another champ club with potential for 1500-2000 average and revenue generation. 

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2 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

If a 3000 capacity ground can be developed that would be crazy not to be a priority for rfl. 

Go from also ran to yet another champ club with potential for 1500-2000 average and revenue generation. 

You could say exactly the same for almost anywhere in the country, couldn't you?

Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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I might also say that under the radar, the RFL are building a facility next door to MCFC's ground in east Manchester.

I'd be keen to know what exactly this is.

I would also query why here and not say Salford or Oldham?

And wonder if this, why not help Oldham or Salford (if they move) as well as the Londons , Sheffield et al.

(I will qualify this by saying if its a centre of excellence I will be very happy)

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3 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

I might also say that under the radar, the RFL are building a facility next door to MCFC's ground in east Manchester.

I'd be keen to know what exactly this is.

I would also query why here and not say Salford or Oldham?

And wonder if this, why not help Oldham or Salford (if they move) as well as the Londons , Sheffield et al.

(I will qualify this by saying if its a centre of excellence I will be very happy)

It is a centre of excellence with education and training facilities:

https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2022/01/17/rfl-submits-plans-for-new-stadium-complex-in-manchester/

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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23 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

I might also say that under the radar, the RFL are building a facility next door to MCFC's ground in east Manchester.

I'd be keen to know what exactly this is.

I would also query why here and not say Salford or Oldham?

And wonder if this, why not help Oldham or Salford (if they move) as well as the Londons , Sheffield et al.

(I will qualify this by saying if its a centre of excellence I will be very happy)

I think the sad thing is that we are talking about one facility like this and where it should be based. I think the sport misses a huge trick when it comes to better using the funds it receives to invest in infrastructure and using that investment to then access greater levels of external funding. Something like the Millennium Stadium in Wales cost £121 million but £46 million of that came from public funding.

Every SL club receiving £100,000 a year less should be peanuts for a professional sport, its one decent player. That would though give £1.4 million a year (£7 million over a 5 year TV deal) that could be invested. If this could be matched by external funding that possibly be doubled. Every 5 years you could get Oldham playing in a decent RL facility in Oldham, Swinton in Swinton etc and these could double up as RL hubs for the community game. Instead we **** away every TV deal living cap in hand from one deal to the next.

Edited by Damien
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5 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Whilst I know about Joseph Platt, I was not aware the RFL are trustees of a huge piece of land in Oldham. Tell us more, please.

But so we have then.

Oldham RLFC. Plays at a minimal standard rented football ground

RFL Has an open stretch of land where there is space for three RL pitches and is next to the Metrolink. Hollinwood RLFC play here as well.

St Anne's RLFC play at their own ground near the Metrolink

It is a simple mathematical sum, where the clubs, the RFL, the council, others like Sports England et al, the supporters, tfgm, Andy Burnham and any local financiers can produce.

1. A Championship standard ground.

2. A Championship standard training facility

3. Enhanced facilities for two amatuer clubs.

4. Community facilities

5. All easily accessible by public transport. 

Winners RL, Oldham, Hollinwood and St Anne's RLFCs and the people of Oldham. 

And as for the other suggestion - Chadderton FC.

My Google Earth measurer says the site is 13,700 square meters. There is adjunct empty land to the north behind the Fire Station that could be used. 

More than plenty to build a Championship standard ground on.

Think Salford City FC and how they turned £5m into a 5000 capacity ground. Its possible and affordable.

That all sounds fine fine on paper - or on Google Maps - but the reality is a bit different.

Hollinwood is nowhere near Roughyeds traditional base in the north/centre of town. You are getting towards the edge of Manchester here. Latics had problems when trying to relocate to a potential new stadium close to this in winning the hearts and minds of their supporters. 

There is also real history with the Council - who supposedly promised a new ground when Watersheddings was sold http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/8358265.stm This has obviously never happened.

Now might be a very good time for both Latics and Roughyeds fans to apply pressure on the Council to find a solution at Boundary Park or elsewhere. I'm sure that Chris Hamilton will still be banging this drum behind closed doors.

   

 

 

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29 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Well what do I know! New training base in Hollinwood.... 
https://roughyeds.co.uk/2022/04/oldham-rlfc-acquires-training-base-new-era-for-roughyeds/

Very good.

I'm intrigued as to what the case is with the RFL is and these fields (I know it was mentioned on the last page about them being trustees). It just seems odd given Oldham's nomad existence since selling the Watersheddings that nothing has come of this before.

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3 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

You could say exactly the same for almost anywhere in the country, couldn't you?

Yes and no, if it was within the rfl´s reach then in some ways yep but as regards to Greater Manchester it should be a priority. 

It is in the region they are based next to other big clubs or heartlands with a formerly successful professional club and still with an amatuer background. The foundations are still there for success than say if you droppñed one in Weston Super Mare as a random example. 

The RFL bases themselves out of a region with no professional academy and a region they blocked another team to protect teams that are currently dying. The RFL are responsible for the growth of the game however much people whinge about clubs responsibility. 

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17 minutes ago, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

Gobsmacked! Ha ha ha. Just as we were discussing it.

Sounds awesome if they can get it to champ standard but training base is ok for now. 

Edited by ShropshireBull
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54 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Yes and no, if it was within the rfl´s reach then in some ways yep but as regards to Greater Manchester it should be a priority. 

It is in the region they are based next to other big clubs or heartlands with a formerly successful professional club and still with an amatuer background. The foundations are still there for success than say if you droppñed one in Weston Super Mare as a random example. 

The RFL bases themselves out of a region with no professional academy and a region they blocked another team to protect teams that are currently dying. The RFL are responsible for the growth of the game however much people whinge about clubs responsibility. 

Not wishing to nitpick but so many projections quote "potential for support of XXX" as yours did. This potential exists almost anywhere provided that the profile of the sport as a whole was raised: that is the real task, not planting acorns.

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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5 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Not wishing to nitpick but so many projections quote "potential for support of XXX" as yours did. This potential exists almost anywhere provided that the profile of the sport as a whole was raised: that is the real task, not planting acorns.

The acorns are already planted in Oldham. The same can't be said of most places.

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1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

Not wishing to nitpick but so many projections quote "potential for support of XXX" as yours did. This potential exists almost anywhere provided that the profile of the sport as a whole was raised: that is the real task, not planting acorns.

But one has historical projections of a club that has previously been successful. Now past performance is not... but a latent fanbase to tap into and again,  the rfl stupidly banned a team in central manchester to 'protect' teams like oldham so they should be justifying that and backing it up with effort to rebuild the shattered clubs they supposedly were protecting. 

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14 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

But one has historical projections of a club that has previously been successful. Now past performance is not... but a latent fanbase to tap into and again,  the rfl stupidly banned a team in central manchester to 'protect' teams like oldham so they should be justifying that and backing it up with effort to rebuild the shattered clubs they supposedly were protecting. 

An interesting discussion, possibly worthy of a separate thread, but latent fanbases have a habit of not being resurrected. I did read an article a long time ago about the concept of "lost generations" whereby following a club (not just in RL) was often something that was handed down from parent to child. When the parent stopped going to matches this link became broken and has not been restored.

A classic example of this can be found at Huddersfield where the fans were alienated over a long period of time resulting in a currently relatively successful club playing at a comfortable stadium struggling to attract healthy levels of support. The same might happen at such as Oldham or Swinton even if they were able to return to similar facilities within their traditional home areas.

I continue to argue that the most important job that the RFL has is to make the "product" of RL as attractive as possible. Actual match attendances will build upon that attractiveness.

 

Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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17 hours ago, Damien said:

Very good.

I'm intrigued as to what the case is with the RFL is and these fields (I know it was mentioned on the last page about them being trustees). It just seems odd given Oldham's nomad existence since selling the Watersheddings that nothing has come of this before.

The land which Joseph Platt owned was to the side of the huge Feranti Transformer factory. He gave the land to the RFL on the condition to was used for Rugby League in perpetuity. The Feranti closed and the MEN moved in, the council were also keen to get Morrisons onto the adjacent site. However to do this the Feranti RL  team (now Hollinwood) had to be moved and needed the same size of facility. So the council agreed the land swop with the RFL and the team moved acrosss the road to Melrose Playing Fields. The in perpetuity clause still remains.

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27 minutes ago, sheddingswasus said:

The land which Joseph Platt owned was to the side of the huge Feranti Transformer factory. He gave the land to the RFL on the condition to was used for Rugby League in perpetuity. The Feranti closed and the MEN moved in, the council were also keen to get Morrisons onto the adjacent site. However to do this the Feranti RL  team (now Hollinwood) had to be moved and needed the same size of facility. So the council agreed the land swop with the RFL and the team moved acrosss the road to Melrose Playing Fields. The in perpetuity clause still remains.

Thanks for that, it's most interesting. 

I do find it odd still though that the RFL have owned this land yet for 25+ years Oldham have struggled for a home.

Edited by Damien
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21 hours ago, theswanmcr said:

That all sounds fine fine on paper - or on Google Maps - but the reality is a bit different.

Hollinwood is nowhere near Roughyeds traditional base in the north/centre of town. You are getting towards the edge of Manchester here. Latics had problems when trying to relocate to a potential new stadium close to this in winning the hearts and minds of their supporters. 

There is also real history with the Council - who supposedly promised a new ground when Watersheddings was sold http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/8358265.stm This has obviously never happened.

Now might be a very good time for both Latics and Roughyeds fans to apply pressure on the Council to find a solution at Boundary Park or elsewhere. I'm sure that Chris Hamilton will still be banging this drum behind closed doors.

   

 

 

Oldhams traditional base is East Oldham.

Also Melrose playing fields are in  chadderton not Hollinwood. 

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