Wed 24th Aug: SL: Leeds Rhinos v Huddersfield Giants KO 8pm (Sky)

[Dunbar]

5 minutes ago, dkw said:

Unbelievable, so its the refs fault that Myler cheated....

A few people have explained (and I am one of them) that they think Hill instigated Myler being lifted off the ground as it would be impossible for him to get himself in that position (head down and hips up) and then lift himself off the ground.

You clearly think that Myler cheated.  Are you saying that Myler lifted himself off the ground and (because Hill was holding him tightly) he also did that against the force that Hill was applying.

I am just keen to understand the specific cheating that Myler did in this case? 

[V02]

16 minutes ago, dkw said:

Unbelievable, so its the refs fault that Myler cheated....

No, Myler was responsible for playing for a penalty (if that's what you think happened). But the ref (and governing body indirectly) was responsible for awarding that penalty, same as when refs reward players taking a dive for obstruction or pretend to not strip the ball. Players are going to bend the rules, it's professional sport, it's the job of the referee to stop them (or at least not reward them). Arguing otherwise is unbelievably naïve.

Edited August 25, 2022 by V02

[Harry Stottle]

9 hours ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

Agreed, great game.

So many posts on SM having a go at the ref, it's exhausting reading the hate.

I consider Mr Smith to be the best ref we have.............................................at recognising forward passes he was certainly on the ball last night, there are as many forward passes in loads of games but they are either just let go or not recognised by the officials, FWIW I think Mr Kendall is the worst at recognising this offence, he simply doesn't see them.

[muckymunksy]

We all know the RFL agenda to get the darling Whinos into the grand final. 

If Smith and the Video Ref had any balls they would of made a example of Myler by sin binning him and giving the giants  a pen. 

But of course it was Leeds so a blind eye was taken. 

[David Dockhouse Host]

9 hours ago, V02 said:

It's not Myler's responsibility to not trick the referee. It's the responsibility of the referee to not be tricked, and the governing body to have enough sensibility in place to prevent that outcome too.

Overly harsh penalties for nothing incidents unsurprisingly lead to events like this. There's no room for nuance, and that's been the case all year whether tip tackles, late hits or contact with the head.

Players strip the ball and pretend not to have done, move off the mark to PTB, lay down for minimal contact or take a dive for obstruction in every single game. We can pretend this is all about Myler or we can acknowledge the governing body have created this to an extent by rewarding the players for doing it. 

Players must be responsible for their actions, and not blame others for what they do.

By pushing blame elsewhere your suggesting players shouldn't be expected to have integrity and they are allowed to cheat.  

The act of cheating is to trick the ref, very hard for the ref if all 26 are play acting and tricking continually.

Yes we need to stop it, but it's hard to know what is play acting accurately every time, it's even more for the ref to judge. It so subjective, many on SM blame Hill, when there's a split in opinion who is the arbitrator? Who ever makes the ultimate decision will be slated as at least half disagree with the subjective decision.

Expect more from players and help officials rather than move focus to the ref when a player cheats 

[David Dockhouse Host]

2 minutes ago, muckymunksy said:

We all know the RFL agenda to get the darling Whinos into the grand final. 

If Smith and the Video Ref had any balls they would of made a example of Myler by sin binning him and giving the giants  a pen. 

But of course it was Leeds so a blind eye was taken. 

How does that work? They sit down and decide to instruct officials to favour Leeds? 

Last week the RFL wanted Toulouse, then Saints, then it was Catalan, struggling to keep up with who they are favouring each week. 

[David Dockhouse Host]

14 minutes ago, V02 said:

No, Myler was responsible for playing for a penalty (if that's what you think happened). But the ref (and governing body indirectly) was responsible for awarding that penalty, same as when refs reward players taking a dive for obstruction or pretend to not strip the ball. Players are going to bend the rules, it's professional sport, it's the job of the referee to stop them (or at least not reward them). Arguing otherwise is unbelievably naïve.

Then you should expect them to get some wrong.

[Harry Stottle]

9 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I agree that Myler engineered himself into the position.  But I also felt that Hill lifted him into the air... into a position that Myler could never have put himself in on his own.

But the sin bin was harsh.

The human body bends in the middle when face down, irrespective of Hill lifting Myler from the upper torso in the chest region for approx 2" it would be totally impossible for Mylers legs to go vertical unless he voluntarily decided to do so, he most certainly put himself into that position.

I don't agree with Wilkin applauding him for his 'gamesmanship' but he recognised immediately that Myler was the perpertrator of the action, and not the victim.

[Dunbar]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

The human body bends in the middle when face down, irrespective of Hill lifting Myler from the upper torso in the chest region for approx 2" it would be totally impossible for Mylers legs to go vertical unless he voluntarily decided to do so, he most certainly put himself into that position.

I don't agree with Wilkin applauding him for his 'gamesmanship' but he recognised immediately that Myler was the perpertrator of the action, and not the victim.

It is the lift I am talking about Harry.  Myler put himself into a strange (but entirely legal) position and then Hill lifted him.  I am still trying to understand how Myler cheated.

[David Dockhouse Host]

24 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

A few people have explained (and I am one of them) that they think Hill instigated Myler being lifted off the ground as it would be impossible for him to get himself in that position (head down and hips up) and then lift himself off the ground.

You clearly think that Myler cheated.  Are you saying that Myler lifted himself off the ground and (because Hill was holding him tightly) he also did that against the force that Hill was applying.

I am just keen to understand the specific cheating that Myler did in this case? 

The position was exaggerated by Mylers push upwards with his legs. This was an attempt which I've seen before from players to get legs above the horizontal and therefore get a penalty.

Whether Hill did or did not hold down too long or put the player in a position to slow the play doesn't alter that fact 

Players are allowed to hold longer if the ball carrier goes down easy, it's to stop false tackles.

[David Dockhouse Host]

13 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I consider Mr Smith to be the best ref we have.............................................at recognising forward passes he was certainly on the ball last night, there are as many forward passes in loads of games but they are either just let go or not recognised by the officials, FWIW I think Mr Kendall is the worst at recognising this offence, he simply doesn't see them.

To be honest I don't notice either, I just watch the game without trying to figure refs out. I don't understand the obsession TBH 

 

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

The position was exaggerated by Mylers push upwards with his legs. This was an attempt which I've seen before from players to get legs above the horizontal and therefore get a penalty.

Whether Hill did or did not hold down too long or put the player in a position to slow the play doesn't alter that fact 

Players are allowed to hold longer if the ball carrier goes down easy, it's to stop false tackles.

Thanks for that.

I guess it boils down to this question.  Did Myler push his legs to force his body up off the ground and therfore win a penalty or did Hill lift him.  I am inclined to think, based on the video, that it is the latter.

But asnI have said before, if it warranted any punishment it wad just a penalty.  A sin bin was far too harsh.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Dunbar

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, muckymunksy said:

We all know the RFL agenda to get the darling Whinos into the grand final. 

Complete utter rubbish, I am not a Rhino fan by the way in fact they are one of my least favourite teams, but these conspiracy theories of the RFL and Officials favouring one team over others is complete bunkum.

[JohnM]

42 minutes ago, tonyXIII said:

God! You are showing your age, John. Newton is so outdated. Quantum theory is the new way to go. The ball can be in two different places at the same time, so when you next shout "Forward!" at a Leeds pass, you know you are wrong.

Just to prove my time at Woolsthorpe Manor House wasn't completely wasted......

[David Dockhouse Host]

5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Thanks for that.

I guess it boils down to this question.  Did Myler push his legs to force his body up off the ground and therfore win a penalty or did Hill lift him.  I am inclined to think, based on the video, that it is the latter.

But asnI have said before, if it warranted any punishment it wad just a penalty.  A sin bin was far too harsh.

It looks to me that Myler pushed more than Hill pulled. There is the problem for refs, easy to blame the ref but it's subjective, only the player really knows if their intent was to cheat. We have to improve player integrity.

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

To be honest I don't notice either, I just watch the game without trying to figure refs out. I don't understand the obsession TBH 

 

Simply because this offence is probably the one that leads to more scores being allowed that should be and can influence the outcome of matches, correction you obviously don't just watch the game.

[David Dockhouse Host]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Complete utter rubbish, I am not a Rhino fan by the way in fact they are one of my least favourite teams, but these conspiracy theories of the RFL and Officials favouring one team over others is complete bunkum.

And a growing problem, people working in the echo chamber of SM feel this view is valid as lots of people sharing the same view, however misguided.

[David Dockhouse Host]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Simply because this offence is probably the one that leads to more scores being allowed that should be and can influence the outcome of matches, correction you obviously don't just watch the game.

I dont take as much notice as many others over the ref, some people seem to only watch to find an error to justify outrage IMO.

Not saying that's you, but some

[Harry Stottle]

13 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

It is the lift I am talking about Harry.  Myler put himself into a strange (but entirely legal) position and then Hill lifted him.  I am still trying to understand how Myler cheated.

Read again what I wrote, better still try it with a family member let them be Myler and you be Hill and take up the same positions and lift them a couple of inches with your arms around their chest region as Hill did, there is no way on earth their legs will go upright, as I say the Human Body bends in the middle by it's own accord only a voluntary action will cause the legs to lift up.

[Dunbar]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Read again what I wrote, better still try it with a family member let them be Myler and you be Hill and take up the same positions and lift them a couple of inches with your arms around their chest region

I just asked my wife.  I think her exact words were "what the #£%& are you going on about".

[Chrispmartha]

35 minutes ago, muckymunksy said:

We all know the RFL agenda to get the darling Whinos into the grand final. 

If Smith and the Video Ref had any balls they would of made a example of Myler by sin binning him and giving the giants  a pen. 

But of course it was Leeds so a blind eye was taken. 

Ah yes, the RFL turning a blind eye to Leeds poor discipline.

Maybe instead of spouting conspiracy theory rubbish look at the amount of times Leeds players have been banned this season.

[Harry Stottle]

14 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

We have to improve player integrity.

Good luck with that one, the sporting field these days is just an extension of modern society, even that bastion of fair play Cricket has a lot of those who want to gain an advantage by improper means, perhaps Snooker is the most honest but with the amount of Camera's in close up they have little option.

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I just asked my wife.  I think her exact words were "what the #£%& are you going on about".

Your missus swears? Then find another volunteer to prove your theory or mine.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Harry Stottle

[fieldofclothofgold]

36 minutes ago, muckymunksy said:

We all know the RFL agenda to get the darling Whinos into the grand final. 

If Smith and the Video Ref had any balls they would of made a example of Myler by sin binning him and giving the giants  a pen. 

But of course it was Leeds so a blind eye was taken. 

Next you are going to say the powers that be are allowing Leeds to get to OT because they are one of the few clubs to attract a reasonable attendance 

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, fieldofclothofgold said:

Next you are going to say the powers that be are allowing Leeds to get to OT because they are one of the few clubs to attract a reasonable attendance 

I think you will find most clubs attend finals well, save for the overseas ones.