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IMG - Vote on Wednesday


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17 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Dave Woods on the BBC saying the ‘Super League’ branding likely to be scrapped.

Something that represents the whole of the game likely to come instead.

As for the other details it seems a fudge between those who want franchising and those who want P and R.

Is this something they nicked as an idea from European basketball?

I’m all for not re-inventing the wheel when it comes to creating things but how successful has the model been?

Alphamax Football !!!

With regard to your second point I think IMG are telling clubs to put mechanisms in place to build the clubs assets for the medium to long term and not gamble all their available resources on a squad they hope will get them promoted.

This strategy and the commitment to it, will allow B grade clubs to build in, stability and sustainability and grow to a Super Club (and the surrounding grass roots, infrastructure) over time.

There-in lies the rub.

No-one wants to do the right thing because it involves delayed gratification.

You know that big ''grown-up'' habit we tell our kids to develop for a better future.

If you get any information on the Euro Basketball, I'd be eager to see/hear it? 

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14 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If you think that if say Leigh merge with Wigan, Widnes with Saints or Warrington, Fev with Cas or Wakefield that it will be hunky dory and the fans will follow think again, you would be taking these clubs out of their spiritual home, you will probably go into some silliliquey about the mergers in Australia and the same reaction was from the fans there in the mergers, but I would say there is a massive cultural difference in the attitudes of people belonging to places that are many years older than places with not much history.

Yes, the 13 year head start in England has really added to these feelings of nostalgia.... 🙄

 

If teams don't want to merge then that's fine. Stay a category C team. 

Edited by Pulga
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18 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I’m all for not re-inventing the wheel when it comes to creating things but how successful has the model been?

Some figures are in here.

There's dozens of equivalent articles from the past few years.

https://basketnews.com/news-175443-euroleague-reportedly-projects-to-reach-100-million-in-turnover-next-year.html

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3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Some figures are in here.

There's dozens of equivalent articles from the past few years.

https://basketnews.com/news-175443-euroleague-reportedly-projects-to-reach-100-million-in-turnover-next-year.html

It's interesting stuff, although I think there is some real lack of transparency there around numbers, with floating % used for many things. 

But I think somebody linked to an article that a new 10 year agreement has been reached, which suggests this has been a success. I think if we extend in a decade then we'd have to assume it is good news. 

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2 minutes ago, Jughead said:

John Davidson saying “several Super League clubs are behind the proposal” and Featherstone have publicly backed it. I imagine both London’s are probably behind it and so will the two French sides. 

 

York are supportive too. 

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's interesting stuff, although I think there is some real lack of transparency there around numbers, with floating % used for many things. 

But I think somebody linked to an article that a new 10 year agreement has been reached, which suggests this has been a success. I think if we extend in a decade then we'd have to assume it is good news. 

Yes, that's basically a Serious About RL level bit of reporting. There is somewhat more fudging about numbers because some of the teams are Real Madrid and Barca and the taxman might be reading - and there's ongoing issues with FIBA and other European domestic leagues, international competitions and the like because basketball is a massive global sport.

The boil-down in any version though is, genuinely, improving teams, bigger audiences, more money and a league which people are clambering to join.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

These changes will benefit lower clubs far more than the Wigans and Leeds of the world.

 OR OTHERWISE totally putting on my Cherry and White specs, when (not if) Leigh win promotion on Sunday, before this announcement there was a clear view and stratergy that had to be acheived and that was to consolidate in SL by not finishing lower than 11th position next season and build from there, they could very possibly accomplish that but on field performance is not what will be required in the future to maintain a seat at the top table will it?

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7 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Alphamax Football !!!

With regard to your second point I think IMG are telling clubs to put mechanisms in place to build the clubs assets for the medium to long term and not gamble all their available resources on a squad they hope will get them promoted.

This strategy and the commitment to it, will allow B grade clubs to build in, stability and sustainability and grow to a Super Club (and the surrounding grass roots, infrastructure) over time.

There-in lies the rub.

No-one wants to do the right thing because it involves delayed gratification.

You know that big ''grown-up'' habit we tell our kids to develop for a better future.

If you get any information on the Euro Basketball, I'd be eager to see/hear it? 

Of course it all depends on the criteria and whether it's within reasonable reach. Let's make an assumption that stadium capacity is one of the criteria. For the sake of ease, let's use the criteria used for licensing when first implemented back in 2009, which was 10,000. Only 8 clubs out of the 25 Championship and League 1 clubs would meet this and many would consider it unachievable; so is there anything to play for? Perhaps this is just way of surreptitiously trimming down the number of professional clubs. 

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I want to see what impact this new approach to structure has on the pitch.

The one thing that I find immensely frustrating in modern Rugby League in the UK is that we seem to always need a reason to win and if that reason is not there fans, and indeed clubs, disconnect from the idea that winning a match matters for the sake of winning - surely what sport should be about.

We hear it all the time with fans describing a match as meaningless (because play off / relegation places have been confirmed) or clubs fielding sides full of kids because they have decided that this is a game they can't be bothered to try and win.

My fear is that teams being guaranteed top tier status will only inflate this attitude with clubs and fans deciding that games become meaningless if there is nothing to play for.  This drives an apathy which can infest the whole sport. 

(None of the above is about the players - they try every game, they have to, Rugby League is a tough and unforgiving game.  It is about clubs deciding that some games, that their fans pay good money to attend, can be treated as superfluous to the season and they simply don't need to be won).

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4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

 OR OTHERWISE totally putting on my Cherry and White specs, when (not if) Leigh win promotion on Sunday, before this announcement there was a clear view and stratergy that had to be acheived and that was to consolidate in SL by not finishing lower than 11th position next season and build from there, they could very possibly accomplish that but on field performance is not what will be required in the future to maintain a seat at the top table will it?

Make sure you get to as many games as you can next year mate. You may not see Leigh in the top flight for at least 12 years after 2023.

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10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

 OR OTHERWISE totally putting on my Cherry and White specs, when (not if) Leigh win promotion on Sunday, before this announcement there was a clear view and stratergy that had to be acheived and that was to consolidate in SL by not finishing lower than 11th position next season and build from there, they could very possibly accomplish that but on field performance is not what will be required in the future to maintain a seat at the top table will it?

TBH Harry, nothing can be said that will make you see any benefits - and that's fine, you have your preference that we retain a simple P&R based on the ladder. It's a valid preference, but one the sport has decided doesn't really work for it. 

But I think you threw the word strategy in to make P&R appear more strategic than it is. 

There isn't anything anyone can say that will convince you this is the way to go, just as nothing will convince haters of P&R that is right. 

Sometimes in life we just don't get what we want. 

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44 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

20 A Grade clubs is not going to happen in my life time. 10 at most

Mate very sorry to hear that, when did you get the bad news ?

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41 minutes ago, Jughead said:

John Davidson saying “several Super League clubs are behind the proposal” and Featherstone have publicly backed it. I imagine both London’s are probably behind it and so will the two French sides. 

 

If all the English SL clubs 10 + Fev + 2 London clubs + 2 French totalling 15 from 37 will that be enough to pass it?

Just curios?

Edit, just seen York mentioned so 16/37 For.

Edited by Harry Stottle
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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

No one knows because the criteria and weighting haven't been finalised yet. So, no, they're not accurate.

And nobody is calling Hull KR one of the big four or five, are they?

  I state K.R over Hull F.C. because they have been relegated from SL but have managed to get promoted and establish themselves as a worthy S.L team.Despite putting money into the stadium improving it year by year and doing good work in the community.R.L will have a main club in Hull and at present K.R. are well in front of Hull F.C.

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6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If all the English SL clubs 10 + Fev + 2 London clubs + 2 French totalling 15 from 37 will that be enough to pass it?

Just curios?

Edit, just seen York mentioned so 16/37 For.

League 1 likely to be mostly in favour too.

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3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

League 1 likely to be mostly in favour too.

Let's wait to see the announcement on funding first, maybe some of the Championship clubs may change their minds if it is taken away.

Which brings up another question, considering any vote should be taken before the '23 season commences and there is going to be a time lag before the TV contracts are negotiated, then surely some committal has to be made how much funding will be paid, if then there is a further drop for the SL clubs tough, it should not be on a proviso.

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Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about other sports heading towards a watershed moment with some big decisions to be made. 

Big decisions have needed to be made in RL for as long as i've been following the game, which is over 30 years. Change does need to happen, and controlled correctly. 

Sadly the future for RL might mean some people get left further behind. Hopefully not. Hopefully we can all enjoy the benefits of a successful sport.

I think we can draw some comparisons from how Formula 1 have adapted and flourished in an ever changing sporting landscape. F1 is currently more popular than ever, and shows no sign of slowing down in its pursuit of popularity. This is entirely down to Liberty Media and their approach to opening new markets and appealing to a broader new fan base and not solely focusing on the existing niche customer. The value of F1 has apparently grown by 250% since 2016 when liberty media took ownership.

This approach is something i feel we need to try and emulate in RL, and possibly will through IMG.

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3 hours ago, Pulga said:

It all sounds extremely reasonable and not very controversial at all despite the response from the usuals. 

P&R is a quaint framework that, to me, isn't much different to the old Rah Rah view of amateurism. 

"If you're good enough on the field you deserve to be in the top flight" is such a strange view from a bygone era. The results are really the tip of the iceberg. The business is the main part of the club. It's 2022. It is an entertainment business, the same as WWE wrestling, soccer, darts and Netflix. We're in direct competition with anything else that people spend time and money on. 

EuroLeague Basketball has just re-signed with IMG after their initial partnership of 10 years. What does that tell you? Look at the stats they're quoting.

https://sbcnews.co.uk/sportsbook/2022/03/30/img-arena-and-euroleague-basketball-extend-long-standing-collaboration/

EuroLeague Basketball does seem to be a success, but then it is unique in being a multinational league.  What worked for it isn't really applicable to British RL at it is now.

3 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

Indeed. And now the excitement of the announcement has subsided, I'm left feeling that IMG's aim, with full agreement from the RFL, is to make the best of what we've got rather than reinvent the wheel. 

Obviously the non-structure stuff is all about that, but for me all the categorisation stuff fits in with that too.

If you stop looking at the the clubs through a sporting rivalry lens, and instead see them as different parts of a business, it kinda makes sense.

Make your most successful outlets market leading, and outline a structure for the next group of existing outlets to step up. 

They're explicit about not going into new countries, and even France is capped at what we have. This is the end of pins-in-map expansion in my view. It's about looking at where the game is strongest - defined in ways we're not quite sure yet - and making the most of that. 

Five years from now I wouldn't be surprised if the top tier was M62 plus France, and IMG being fine with that. 

The problem with that is that we've already seen that M62 plus two places in France isn't strong, it's weak.  This IMG report is just the sort of thing I expected from an Aussie from Sydney who doesn't really understand the root cause of the game's weakness in the UK.

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6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Let's wait to see the announcement on funding first, maybe some of the Championship clubs may change their minds if it is taken away.

Which brings up another question, considering any vote should be taken before the '23 season commences and there is going to be a time lag before the TV contracts are negotiated, then surely some committal has to be made how much funding will be paid, if then there is a further drop for the SL clubs tough, it should not be on a proviso.

League 1 clubs get barely any funding now, I'm not sure that is their biggest concern.

It seems the lopsided nature of money in the Championship over the past 8 years or so may have tipped many clubs into seeing this as the best viable solution.

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25 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If all the English SL clubs 10 + Fev + 2 London clubs + 2 French totalling 15 from 37 will that be enough to pass it?

Just curios?

Edit, just seen York mentioned so 16/37 For.

Imagine some of the top Championship sides will likely be on board if Featherstone and York are, so likely enough to tip the scales. 

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14 hours ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/could-imgs-recommendations-lead-to-super-league-changing-name-59744/

 

"his could see an end to the name Super League which has been going strong for 27 years since 1996 and the arrival of summer rugby league."

The south wales ''Sunshine League'' was the first Northern hemisphere rugby league competition to be played in the Summer months. It was inaugurated in the season before Maurice Lindsay's SuperLeague.

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