Rework of IRL/RLWC

[yipyee]

1 minute ago, GeordieSaint said:

In fairness, Scotland just had more turn up in Coventry than Cumbria plus previously had a 20k crowd there against England. Just saying…

Theres no way that many 'turned up' 

20k for England is poor, they got 25k sell out with others wanting tickets for a game against Ireland at Huddersfield 

[londonrlfan]

51 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

This. 

We demand competitiveness and close matches at every single game. So frustrating at times.

It isn't about that tonight. It's about a side who haven't moved forward in 22 years and it's clearly not working there. 

You get blowouts in every sport. 

[londonrlfan]

40 minutes ago, Jughead said:

By that logic, most nations aren’t eligible for the World Cup. See ya later Fiji. On your bike Samoa. Tonga? Get outta here.

 

That's not true of Fiji. Tonga and Samoa I agree though. They contribute nothing to the player pool. 

Maybe NRL clubs could scout over there? 

[londonrlfan]

32 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

The last disaster was 16 teams. This isn't as bad but it's not a million miles better.

I would like to see a 12 team WC, in 3 groups of 4. We should stop worrying about criteria and pretending fairness exists and should just prioritise the countries we want to keep.

Tier 1 - Aus, NZ, Eng

Tier 2 - France, PNG, Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, Wales

Tier 3 - let everyone else fight out over the 3 spots. 

Reduce the number of uncompetitive pure heritage countries while giving them an avenue to compete.

Three groups winners go into the semi-finals, top 2 runners up play a playoff for the 4th spot.

8 teams given automatic qualification in a 12 team tournament?

[londonrlfan]

27 minutes ago, yipyee said:

FWIW 

Scotland drew with NZ at the last home world cup and got big crowds in Cumbria which coincidently is right next to Scotland... the RLWC team then decide to play Scotland game in Coventry?!

Last home world cup France played games in France and got big crowds, RLWC let's play in Doncaster?!

Sold a game out in Bristol so let's not give them a game.

Can't help thinking that their strategy was all wrong.

The England games they have done well with and the anfield cancellation was beyond their control but they should have looked to break even at worst with the other games. 

Tonga games at St helens came good possibly as a fluke due to the Tonga contingent at saints.

The one and only reason I can think of that they have done what they have is to get funding from the levling up fund.

Why would France host games when it's in England? Are you gonna be calling for England games to be in England in 2025?

[Maximus Decimus]

5 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

8 teams given automatic qualification in a 12 team tournament?

Nine.

[yipyee]

Just now, londonrlfan said:

Why would France host games when it's in England? Are you gonna be calling for England games to be in England in 2025?

Yep, it makes sense.

England vs a low rank team would get more fans in Northern England than in France. 

Can't see any French going to cheer on England.

[londonrlfan]

Just now, yipyee said:

Yep, it makes sense.

England vs a low rank team would get more fans in Northern England than in France. 

Can't see any French going to cheer on England.

The idea would be English fans travel and new audiences come to games. 

[londonrlfan]

2 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Nine.

Far too many. How would you decide who's deserving so many years ahead?

[londonrlfan]

Anyway thankfully we won't be dropping to 8, 10 or 12 teams, 16 is here to stay and rightly so. More nations recovering government recognition, IOC, GAISF membership has to be the plan by 2029, and that will bring more money into the sport to help with development. 

[Maximus Decimus]

34 minutes ago, Ragingbull said:

Wales in the same tier as Tonga?  Thats laughable. 

Why is it? I said we should stop pretending that we're basing it on fairness.

People in Wales play rugby league, not a great deal but a lot more than other places.

We should prioritise countries that a) are good for the game and b) play the game. 

Let's stop pretending that Ireland, Scotland and Italy are legitimate development nations. 22 years on and the first two are no better off than they were in 2000.

[Maximus Decimus]

2 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

Far too many. How would you decide who's deserving so many years ahead?

It's based on places that play RL and those that are competitive. Not places that can simply drum up a poor team out of heritage players.

[yipyee]

3 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

The idea would be English fans travel and new audiences come to games. 

But in reality fans don't travel well ( that is the argument to not have teams from outside the M62) and as we are seeing people are not going to the dead rubber games. 

One sell out in England would provide working capital to experiment in France and vice versa !

[SydneyRoosters]

7 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

Anyway thankfully we won't be dropping to 8, 10 or 12 teams, 16 is here to stay and rightly so. More nations recovering government recognition, IOC, GAISF membership has to be the plan by 2029, and that will bring more money into the sport to help with development. 

Why’s that, Dropping to 12 teams would to wonders for the game.

[Gerrumonside ref]

9 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

Anyway thankfully we won't be dropping to 8, 10 or 12 teams, 16 is here to stay and rightly so. More nations recovering government recognition, IOC, GAISF membership has to be the plan by 2029, and that will bring more money into the sport to help with development. 

Agree with this and think there’s been an overreaction to tonight.

 

 

[GeordieSaint]

28 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

It isn't about that tonight. It's about a side who haven't moved forward in 22 years and it's clearly not working there. 

You get blowouts in every sport. 

That’s got nothing to do with the World Cup then - everything to do with Scotland… two very different areas. 

Agreed. Look at Brazil in the football WC SF against Germany. 

[Ragingbull]

2 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Agree with this and think there’s been an overreaction to tonight.

 

 

100% . teams get spanked in world cups in every sport. Heck they get spanked in league games in every sport.  

People jumping on the band wagon like is the worst beating seen in any sport ever played.  

[Exiled Wiganer]

48 minutes ago, yipyee said:

FWIW 

Scotland drew with NZ at the last home world cup and got big crowds in Cumbria which coincidently is right next to Scotland... the RLWC team then decide to play Scotland game in Coventry?!

Last home world cup France played games in France and got big crowds, RLWC let's play in Doncaster?!

Sold a game out in Bristol so let's not give them a game.

Can't help thinking that their strategy was all wrong.

The England games they have done well with and the anfield cancellation was beyond their control but they should have looked to break even at worst with the other games. 

Tonga games at St helens came good possibly as a fluke due to the Tonga contingent at saints.

The one and only reason I can think of that they have done what they have is to get funding from the levling up fund.

Your last sentence answers the point about France and Bristol (which was a privilege to attend, but did not sell out, and that was with £10 tickets). While I have never been a fan of games in Coventry which could be played elsewhere, Scotland did end up with more in Coventry than they got in Cumbria. I enjoyed their Newcastle game as well, and it made sense to play somewhere much closer to Scotland. 

I think today, again, was neither triumph nor disaster from an attendance perspective. Overall, I will end up going to as many games, but end up spending 3/4 times as much. And the teams that will benefit most from a strong financial performance are the Scotland, Greece and Waleses of our game. 

As for the best structure, I would happily see us go back to 12/14 teams with an emerging nation competition alongside it, but I can see the logic in a 16 team build it and they will come approach. 

[SydneyRoosters]

10 minutes ago, Ragingbull said:

100% . teams get spanked in world cups in every sport. Heck they get spanked in league games in every sport.  

People jumping on the band wagon like is the worst beating seen in any sport ever played.  

Difference is in the other sports the teams that get spanked are Teams with 100% domestic born players and a Country Wide following.

No one in Scotland cares about this, nor should they as the players are not Scottish.

in all fairness I could have made this thread a month ago, I’m doing it now as it is big news. The main thing I’m annoyed about that is we have these heritage players to make nations “Stronger” Yet they get battered by almost 90 points. They would be 100 times better off starting from scratch in Euro C whilst using entirely Domestic players and slowly trying to work there way up just like every other non-World Cup nation in rugby league and every other sport.

[londonrlfan]

28 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

It's based on places that play RL and those that are competitive. Not places that can simply drum up a poor team out of heritage players.

But Tonga and Samoa are heritage teams as well

[londonrlfan]

24 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

Why’s that, Dropping to 12 teams would to wonders for the game.

It wouldn't as you'd still get blowouts and probably less domestic players. Jamaica and Greece haven't been the problem, they've been a breath of fresh air. 

[londonrlfan]

30 minutes ago, yipyee said:

But in reality fans don't travel well ( that is the argument to not have teams from outside the M62) and as we are seeing people are not going to the dead rubber games. 

One sell out in England would provide working capital to experiment in France and vice versa !

England fans don't travel in the M62 either! Imo a French World Cup should be about growing the sport in France and growing its audience, not relying on M62 fans travelling down. 

[londonrlfan]

10 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

Difference is in the other sports the teams that get spanked are Teams with 100% domestic born players and a Country Wide following.

No one in Scotland cares about this, nor should they as the players are not Scottish.

in all fairness I could have made this thread a month ago, I’m doing it now as it is big news. The main thing I’m annoyed about that is we have these heritage players to make nations “Stronger” Yet they get battered by almost 90 points. They would be 100 times better off starting from scratch in Euro C whilst using entirely Domestic players and slowly trying to work there way up just like every other non-World Cup nation in rugby league and every other sport.

Exactly. We're told sides have to rely on heritage players because of blowouts, but we're still getting blowouts. Would Scotland have been any worse off if David Scott played tonight?

[Copa]

While I think Scotland’s lack of domestic activity is an issue and they perhaps shouldn’t have been in the WC, I think that if I was a part-time athlete and got a chance to play against the best team in the world, I’d absolutely love it.

It’s the only opportunity they’ll ever have to play against the elite in the game they love. They can go back to their teaching jobs, supermarket shelf filling, accounting jobs, etc after playing against the best in the world on TV screens all around the world and think “f*** me! What just happened?”

Only the World Cup can offer this.

[SydneyRoosters]

22 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

It wouldn't as you'd still get blowouts and probably less domestic players. Jamaica and Greece haven't been the problem, they've been a breath of fresh air. 

I 100% Agree about Jamaica and Greece they have been really enjoyable.

With 12 Teams the World Cup would most likely look like this

6 Oceania-

Australia

New Zealand

Tonga

Papua New Guinea

Fiji

Samoa

 

4 Europe-

England

France

Wales

Ireland ??

 

1- America

Jamaica

 

1- Play off-

Pacific- Cook Islands

Europe- Greece

MEA- Lebanon

America- USA

 

In the 2025 World Cup there’s 2 spots for americas Teams, if we drop it to 12 teams I’m sure there would still be 1 Americas Spot. Greece are hard to leave out, but I have no doubt after a few years of development they will be the 4th best in Europe after England, France and Wales.