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The Art of Hand and Foot
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Pulga

Pulga

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"During the inaugural season of rugby league, the rules were changed to require the scrum-half to retire behind a scrum until the ball was out. The scrum-half would now be deemed offside if they moved past their team's forwards while the ball was in the opposing pack. When the game was introduced to Australia several years later, the change was noted by The Sydney Sportsman on 15 April 1908 to "make the game fast and open" as it allowed the side that wins the contest for the ball to mobilise their backs "without interference". Before this a scrum-half had been permitted to follow the ball as it progressed through the packed forwards of their opponents half of the scrum."

There's a bit of a list of the changes on Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_rugby_league#History_of_changes_to_the_Laws?wprov=sfla1

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The Art of Hand and Foot

The Art of Hand and Foot

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3 hours ago, Pulga said:

"During the inaugural season of rugby league, the rules were changed to require the scrum-half to retire behind a scrum until the ball was out. The scrum-half would now be deemed offside if they moved past their team's forwards while the ball was in the opposing pack. When the game was introduced to Australia several years later, the change was noted by The Sydney Sportsman on 15 April 1908 to "make the game fast and open" as it allowed the side that wins the contest for the ball to mobilise their backs "without interference". Before this a scrum-half had been permitted to follow the ball as it progressed through the packed forwards of their opponents half of the scrum."

There's a bit of a list of the changes on Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_rugby_league#History_of_changes_to_the_Laws?wprov=sfla1

That's interesting. The reason I asked is because in the 1901 film of Oldham v Swinton the commentary, on YouTube , states that the ruck and maul were abolished in 1899 to be replaced by a scrum after every tackle. In that film you can see the scrum half stand quite some way off from the scrum and throw the ball in. He doesn't seem to retreat, although the film is quite grainy.  The scrum after every tackle was replaced by the play the ball in 1906. 

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Toby Chopra

Toby Chopra

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6 hours ago, Pulga said:

"During the inaugural season of rugby league, the rules were changed to require the scrum-half to retire behind a scrum until the ball was out. The scrum-half would now be deemed offside if they moved past their team's forwards while the ball was in the opposing pack. When the game was introduced to Australia several years later, the change was noted by The Sydney Sportsman on 15 April 1908 to "make the game fast and open" as it allowed the side that wins the contest for the ball to mobilise their backs "without interference". Before this a scrum-half had been permitted to follow the ball as it progressed through the packed forwards of their opponents half of the scrum."

There's a bit of a list of the changes on Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_rugby_league#History_of_changes_to_the_Laws?wprov=

Great list, I've not seen that before. 

Anybody know, when did the play-the-ball stop being contested and how did that come about? 

For me that's the fundamental point of difference from union that leads to a much better sport overall. 

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Griff

Griff

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13 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Great list, I've not seen that before. 

Anybody know, when did the play-the-ball stop being contested and how did that come about? 

For me that's the fundamental point of difference from union that leads to a much better sport overall. 

1996

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Griff

Griff

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23 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Really? Maybe my memory is shoddy but I started watching league on grandstand in the early 80s and don't remember striking at the ball. Did teams mostly just opt not to do it? 

It's on the list you were so excited to see.🤣

Markers stopped striking after 1966 because, if they touched the ball, it restarted the set.  It stopped being a percentage play.

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Dunbar

Dunbar

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26 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Really? Maybe my memory is shoddy but I started watching league on grandstand in the early 80s and don't remember striking at the ball. Did teams mostly just opt not to do it? 

 

1 minute ago, Griff said:

It's on the list you were so excited to see.🤣

Markers stopped striking after 1966 because, if they touched the ball, it restarted the set.  It stopped being a percentage play.

It was definitely a law all the way through my playing days that finished in the mid 90's.

Not many players did it but I had one teammate who tried it loads in every game but it nearly always resulted in a penalty or a set restart.

The second most annoying player to play with.  The most annoying was a guy who was always offside trying to get an intercept.  He gave away loads of penalties. 

And even more frustrating was he was about as fast as a snail carrying a tortoise so when he did get an intercept once in a blue moon, he was caught after 5 yards.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Dunbar

Dunbar

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The other variation at the ruck was being able to play the ball to yourself.  This was legal even with a marker and then they changed it to just when there was no marker in place.

I can't remember when that change was made.  I certainly remember John Ferguson doing it at Wembley in '85 with a marker but I'm sure it stayed a fair bit after that.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Griff

Griff

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Just now, Dunbar said:

The other variation at the ruck was being able to play the ball to yourself.  This was legal even with a marker and then they changed it to just when there was no marker in place.

I can't remember when that change was made.  I certainly remember John Ferguson doing it at Wembley in '85 with a marker but I'm sure it stayed a fair bit after that.

As far as I know, you can still do that but you have to play it backwards, turn round and pick it up.  You're not going to gain much advantage doing all that.

Another 1996 change.  It's also on the list.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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bobbruce

bobbruce

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8 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

The other variation at the ruck was being able to play the ball to yourself.  This was legal even with a marker and then they changed it to just when there was no marker in place.

I can't remember when that change was made.  I certainly remember John Ferguson doing it at Wembley in '85 with a marker but I'm sure it stayed a fair bit after that.

When they eventually banned taping the ball to yourself at the PTB. We had the strange sight for a season or two were players would ptb then turn round and pick it up themselves as that was still allowed. 

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Dunbar

Dunbar

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5 minutes ago, Griff said:

As far as I know, you can still do that but you have to play it backwards, turn round and pick it up.  You're not going to gain much advantage doing all that.

Another 1996 change.  It's also on the list.

The 1996 change was not being able to play the ball to yourself even with the absence of markers.

So, there was the original law where a player could play the ball to themselves any time and then the period where it could only be done when there was no marker and then finally the ban altogether.

I can't see any reference to the first change though.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Griff

Griff

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Just now, Dunbar said:

The 1996 change was not being able to play the ball to yourself even with the absence of markers.

 

No, it was not being able to play the ball forwards to yourself.

It's on the list.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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Dunbar

Dunbar

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4 minutes ago, Griff said:

No, it was not being able to play the ball forwards to yourself.

It's on the list.

Yes, it's on the list and says "At the play-the-ball, the tackled player was stopped from being able to tap the ball forwards to himself – even in the absence of markers."

As I say, there was a period where you could only play the ball forward to yourself when there were no markers... but I don't know how long that lasted.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Griff

Griff

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5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Yes, it's on the list and says "At the play-the-ball, the tackled player was stopped from being able to tap the ball forwards to himself – even in the absence of markers."

As I say, there was a period where you could only play the ball forward to yourself when there were no markers... but I don't know how long that lasted.

If you tapped the ball forwards to yourself with a marker in front of you, the ball wouldn't have left the ruck.  You'd need to kick it past the marker before you could pick it up.   It wouldn't be a smart play.

On the other hand, if there were no markers, yes, it would've left the ruck and you could pick it up.

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"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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Dunbar

Dunbar

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1 minute ago, Griff said:

If you tapped the ball forwards to yourself with a marker in front of you, the ball wouldn't have left the ruck.  You'd need to kick it past the marker before you could pick it up.   It wouldn't be a smart play.

That's not how it worked.  You could tap it and go again.  As I say, there is an example of John Ferguson doing it at Wembley in 85 with a marker in front of him.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Griff

Griff

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1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

That's not how it worked.  You could tap it and go again.  As I say, there is an example of John Ferguson doing it at Wembley in 85 with a marker in front of him.

Yeah - sorry - I missed your point but I've edited my post now.

No markers, tap and go, there since 1906, I suspect.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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Dunbar

Dunbar

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1 minute ago, Griff said:

Yeah - sorry - I missed your point but I've edited my post now.

No markers, tap and go, there since 1906, I suspect.

Indeed.

And then there was the law where you could only tap and go when there were no markers set... before the final change in 96 to say it couldn't be done at all.

Any idea when the first change came about?

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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