North Wales Crusaders getting shafted

[The Daddy]

 

[Barley Mow]

The only union international fixture I can find reference to in Colwyn Bay around that time is an U20 match v England five days after the North Wales v Dewsbury match.

Are there other age groups that week too that are having an impact or do the WRU get to veto NW playing five days before them?

I recall this happening last year too. I know that their options are limited, but NW don't seem to have the best deal when it comes to other tenants being able to stop them playing at their home ground.

[Eddie]

24 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

NWC are simply, like every ungrowable club in League 1, prisoners of no infrastructure. Oldham, Swinton,Rochdale,Crusaders, Skolars (unless this investment actually happens),Hunslet. Can add workington and midlands into that. 

You would’ve thought WRU in the state they are in would be keen to see any code of rugby do well and give a pathway but no, they are going to get swallowed by football too.

Prisoners of being in the semi professional ten team third tier of a regionaL sport with no money and average attendances of three figures. 

[gogledd]

1 hour ago, Barley Mow said:

I recall this happening last year too. I know that their options are limited, but NW don't seem to have the best deal when it comes to other tenants being able to stop them playing at their home ground.

You are correct; it did happen last year too. The WRU are the big money investors in the ground, the infrastructure and the union team that plays there regularly. We've already had our fixtures changed due to ground improvements after the union season finishes, but this was entirely predictable. The rugby union u20s six nations games are known well in advance. I'm sure the stadium management could have given notice when the League 1 fixtures were announced and the Dewsbury fixture could have been reversed months ago.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

43 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

NWC are simply, like every ungrowable club in League 1, prisoners of no infrastructure. Oldham, Swinton,Rochdale,Crusaders, Skolars (unless this investment actually happens),Hunslet. Can add workington and midlands into that. 

You would’ve thought WRU in the state they are in would be keen to see any code of rugby do well and give a pathway but no, they are going to get swallowed by football too.

Before some irate Swinton fan chimes in can I just point out they got promoted last season.

[FearNothing]

2 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

The only union international fixture I can find reference to in Colwyn Bay around that time is an U20 match v England five days after the North Wales v Dewsbury match.

 

Believe me, that's all the WRU need to pull rank on us......they still think League wrecks the pitch more than Union!! 

[Barley Mow]

1 hour ago, gogledd said:

...I'm sure the stadium management could have given notice when the League 1 fixtures were announced and the Dewsbury fixture could have been reversed months ago.

A good point just made by @Blind side johnny on the N Wales sub-forum, there are visiting fans who have paid for trips away for the weekend at the match & seaside.

I wonder why there wasn't more advanced notice.

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, gogledd said:

You are correct; it did happen last year too. The WRU are the big money investors in the ground, the infrastructure and the union team that plays there regularly. We've already had our fixtures changed due to ground improvements after the union season finishes, but this was entirely predictable. The rugby union u20s six nations games are known well in advance. I'm sure the stadium management could have given notice when the League 1 fixtures were announced and the Dewsbury fixture could have been reversed months ago.

I wonder why the simple expedient of a fixture reversal wasn't taken, even at this late stage. Dewsbury do own their own ground so nobody to placate other than disgruntled fans.

[Toby Chopra]

When did the stadium managers tell NWC the game couldn't go ahead?

If it happened last year too, surely NWC should have at least sought to confirm the match booking as soon as fixtures were released. 

[Blind side johnny]

4 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

When did the stadium managers tell NWC the game couldn't go ahead?

If it happened last year too, surely NWC should have at least sought to confirm the match booking as soon as fixtures were released. 

Yes, this question does need answering. I am told that Dewsbury were still going ahead with their plans for the trip to Colwyn Bay on Friday and have only just been informed of the change.

Very poor communication from NW all round.

[gogledd]

1 hour ago, Barley Mow said:

A good point just made by @Blind side johnny on the N Wales sub-forum, there are visiting fans who have paid for trips away for the weekend at the match & seaside.

I wonder why there wasn't more advanced notice.

I'm sure the Club announced the decision as early as they could, once they were aware the ground wasn't available. I don't think theres any doubt the Club are as disappointed with the decision as the fans.

My view is the stadium management were aware of the RU fixture months ago. They could have advised then that we couldn't play the game and perhaps have reversed the fixtures.

North Wales Supporters Club have offered transport from Wrexham for any Rams fans who can get to the Turf, Mold Road Wrexham for 12:30 on the day of the game. If your on this forum and want to take up this offer let me know.

[fearnowt]

It is very disappointing that this is happening again. The big difference last year was that our game was in the challenge cup, a home draw against Hunslet, which had to be arranged at relatively short notice.

This time, it's a league fixture announced about three months ago, and the union six nations fixtures were announced well before that. Regardless of how this has happened, it could have been avoided.

In fairness to the club, they have been occupied with other fixture issues this season due to work being carried out at the stadium, which may have taken their eye off the ball with this game.

After our second home game against Olham on 26th March, we don't play at home again until 11 weeks later, when Workington visit on 11th June. By moving games around involving Doncaster and Midlands Hurricanes, the club believed that we would be playing all of our home games in Colwyn Bay.

The club statement suggests that the new pitch being laid in the summer should avoid this from happening again. I hope they are right, but don't think we should take it for granted. Even if the new pitch is bomb proof, someone will think of an excuse to stop us from playing on it. We're lucky that the stadium is owned by the council, otherwise there would be nowhere in North Wales for us to play.

[Gomersall]

If the union game date was known months before the L1 fixtures were announced I don’t understand why NWC couldn’t request the relevant date being used to allocate them an away match. As the secondary tenant at the stadium the first thing I’d be finding out each year is on which dates the ground is unavailable and informing the RFL fixture compiler. It’s that simple. Isn’t it?

[fearnowt]

Not on social media myself, but still look at the club's twitter for news.

Anyway, they've just posted  this for any Rams fans who have booked accommodation for the weekend.

 

[Josef K]

It can’t be good sharing a ground with another sport especially when it’s not owned by yourselves and the owners are u****.

I still don’t trust them, they are very Dick Dastardly. 

[gogledd]

22 hours ago, Gomersall said:

If the union game date was known months before the L1 fixtures were announced I don’t understand why NWC couldn’t request the relevant date being used to allocate them an away match. As the secondary tenant at the stadium the first thing I’d be finding out each year is on which dates the ground is unavailable and informing the RFL fixture compiler. It’s that simple. Isn’t it?

My best guess, and thats all it is - Conwy Council are the actual owners of the stadium and Crusaders would have booked the fixtures with Counwy Council stadium management. The WRU are the primary users of the stadium and as we discovered last year they dictated the union 6 Nations game would take preference and Crusaders would not be able to use the stadium. As was the case last year it was only weeks before the event the Club were advised they couldn't use the ground. 

However I do agree that this situation could have been avoided with better communication between all parties.

I hope all Rams fans who have taken the step to book accommodation etc can get to the game and take up the offer of the club to let them know by contacting club@northwalescrusadersrlfc.co.uk

Our Supporters Club offer of getting Rams fans from Wrexham to Widnes still stands. We leave from the Turf, Mold Road, Wrexham at 12:30. contact crufansbus@gmail.com for details.

 

[Blind side johnny]

20 hours ago, Josef K said:

It can’t be good sharing a ground with another sport especially when it’s not owned by yourselves and the owners are u****.

I still don’t trust them, they are very Dick Dastardly. 

RU don't own the ground but are more "important" tenants than NW, drawing larger crowds, I believe.

[WelshpoolMarauder]

I’m not sure how they’ve been ‘shafted’?

By the sounds of it, this time last year they knew that the 6 Nations U20s fixtures took priority at the ground, which makes sense as the WRU have thrown a lot of money at the facility and the games are televised and potentially offer a lot of publicity to the venue and area, as well as being good money earners, certainly more than NWC games are.

The games have been taking place on the same weekend as the senior fixtures since they came to Colwyn Bay several years ago, as a general rule on the night before the main game, and the fixture dates are known a better part of a year before (my father has already got potential dates in the diary for a Dublin trip next year), so it seems to me that they should’ve known that there were certain spells of time they couldn’t guarantee being able to play at the ground prior to the fixture list being prepared.

It sucks that they’re not important enough to have more influence over how the ground is used, but you don’t have to be Nostradamus to figure out when these clashes might arise in plenty of time.

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, WelshpoolMarauder said:

I’m not sure how they’ve been ‘shafted’?

By the sounds of it, this time last year they knew that the 6 Nations U20s fixtures took priority at the ground, which makes sense as the WRU have thrown a lot of money at the facility and the games are televised and potentially offer a lot of publicity to the venue and area, as well as being good money earners, certainly more than NWC games are.

The games have been taking place on the same weekend as the senior fixtures since they came to Colwyn Bay several years ago, as a general rule on the night before the main game, and the fixture dates are known a better part of a year before (my father has already got potential dates in the diary for a Dublin trip next year), so it seems to me that they should’ve known that there were certain spells of time they couldn’t guarantee being able to play at the ground prior to the fixture list being prepared.

It sucks that they’re not important enough to have more influence over how the ground is used, but you don’t have to be Nostradamus to figure out when these clashes might arise in plenty of time.

The RU match is five days after the RL match. If that isn't getting shafted then I don't know what is.

[WelshpoolMarauder]

3 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

The RU match is five days after the RL match. If that isn't getting shafted then I don't know what is.

The WRU no doubt have a contractual clause stating that the pitch can’t be used for X amount of days prior to these games. Eirias is a multi use facility and from my experience the pitch isn’t the best at any time, so imagine how it would look on TV if it was a state for a nationally televised game. If you were a sponsor, you wouldn’t be chuffed if your logo was a mess. 

If they really were targeting NWC, they could have used their influence with Conwy Council to stop them playing there at all, they put a lot of money into the venue, far more than NWC do.

Frankly, the WRU have far bigger issues to deal with right now (poor results, sexism row, regions and community clubs struggling) than trying to cause bother to a League 1 club whose crowds are in the 100s. 

If, has been mentioned, this was an issue last year, surely a bit of forethought and a look at the 6 Nations fixtures for this year 12 months ago would’ve shown where there could be issues and arrangements could have been made and discussions had. They’ve been playing the U20s games at Eirias the night before the main games for several years now, it’s not a new thing.

[Blind side johnny]

2 hours ago, WelshpoolMarauder said:

The WRU no doubt have a contractual clause stating that the pitch can’t be used for X amount of days prior to these games. Eirias is a multi use facility and from my experience the pitch isn’t the best at any time, so imagine how it would look on TV if it was a state for a nationally televised game. If you were a sponsor, you wouldn’t be chuffed if your logo was a mess. 

If they really were targeting NWC, they could have used their influence with Conwy Council to stop them playing there at all, they put a lot of money into the venue, far more than NWC do.

Frankly, the WRU have far bigger issues to deal with right now (poor results, sexism row, regions and community clubs struggling) than trying to cause bother to a League 1 club whose crowds are in the 100s. 

If, has been mentioned, this was an issue last year, surely a bit of forethought and a look at the 6 Nations fixtures for this year 12 months ago would’ve shown where there could be issues and arrangements could have been made and discussions had. They’ve been playing the U20s games at Eirias the night before the main games for several years now, it’s not a new thing.

Brilliant!

You make an assumption then base your logic upon this being correct. The fact that the WRU has bigger fish to fry doesn't stop individuals with an agenda from making trouble.

[WelshpoolMarauder]

11 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Brilliant!

You make an assumption then base your logic upon this being correct. The fact that the WRU has bigger fish to fry doesn't stop individuals with an agenda from making trouble.

It’s not an assumption. I was at one point quite an important figure within the North Wales Rugby Union and I know this is how they do it. 

You’re jumping at shadows, making a conspiracy where there isn’t one. The Under 20s Six Nations fixture list isn’t built around the potential to make things difficult for a League 1 rugby league side with crowds in the 100s and whose fixture list isn’t produced until many months later.

This was a totally avoidable situation had there been some forethought put in. If anything, this thread should be called ‘Dewsbury fans shafted’.

[Barley Mow]

1 hour ago, WelshpoolMarauder said:

It’s not an assumption. I was at one point quite an important figure within the North Wales Rugby Union and I know this is how they do it. 

You’re jumping at shadows, making a conspiracy where there isn’t one. The Under 20s Six Nations fixture list isn’t built around the potential to make things difficult for a League 1 rugby league side with crowds in the 100s and whose fixture list isn’t produced until many months later.

This was a totally avoidable situation had there been some forethought put in. If anything, this thread should be called ‘Dewsbury fans shafted’.

No matter whether blame can be laid at WRU's door or not, North Wales Crusaders do seem to have been 'shafted' by Conwy Council giving such late notice.

Perhaps the club should have anticipated it after last year. But the Council as their landlords must have had no issue with their match being scheduled at Colwyn Bay for that date (up until a week before the game) so maybe they thought the WRU had realised that having a match 5 days before their own isn't a big deal.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Barley Mow

[WelshpoolMarauder]

17 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

No matter whether blame can be laid at WRU's door or not, North Wales Crusaders do seem to have been 'shafted' by Conwy Council giving such late notice.

Perhaps the club should have anticipated it after last year. But the Council as their landlords must have had no issue with their match being scheduled at Colwyn Bay for that date (up until a week before the game) so maybe they thought the WRU had realised that having a match 5 days before their own isn't a big deal.

I agree with you about Conwy Council, it’s very poor on their part if they’ve only given a few days notice.

I just don’t think it’s a massive union conspiracy to damage NWC. 

[headtackle]

Shouldn’t be that difficult to accommodate both games over a weekend 

presumably bookings are made reasonably well in advance so if Crusaders had Sunday booked the WRU should have told they had Friday night or Saturday- surely not difficult unless you work for a council 

suppose a lot comes down to the terms of the lease 

Difficult for crusaders in finding another suitable stadium at short notice.  Presume Wrexham no longer available given the Hollywood connection  

Caldy RU last year is a bit amateurish and basically an open field with a grass bank   
 

Widnes probably makes sense so well done them for helping out