FEV and IMG

[Rarefrith]

We could go up on the pitch this season. Do a Leigh in super league next season and still be relegated. Or we stay down, win the grand final in 2024 and not be promoted. It’s not sport, it is a stitch up. I’m not going to games when there is no jeopardy on the pitch. Went through that before, it’s a different form of licensing. If you can’t  see that I don’t know where you are looking. You need to read closely at the criteria. The game outside super league is dead and I’m done with the sport after this season. 

[David Shepherd]

2 minutes ago, The Grinder said:

I just can't believe that anyone believes this is true, they will score better than us on finances, on field performance and fandom.

Wakey are a financial basket case. We are always looking at new ways to make revenue from our big asset. we've proved we can still field an expensive squad despite a massive drop in TV money.

Fandom isn't just attendances, it's social media engagement, getting more fans in (Cas probably have hit their ceiling, we have much more room to grow). 

Stadium - It's the best in the area.

We have no reason to fear this system

[The Phantom Horseman]

2 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

I don't believe it will be a closed shop.  I'm happy to trust that IMG know their onions.

Let's say Wakefield averaged 4.5k home crowds for their last 2 years in SL and get 2.5k in Championship next year (if relegated).

And let's say we averaged 2.8k in our last 2 years in Championship and 5k in SL (if promoted).

From what we know of the IMG rules, they would score more than us on attendance points.

And if they finish 10th (as they did last year), 12th and then 3rd in Championship, and we finish 2nd, 1st in Championship and then 11th in SL, they will score higher than us in that category too.

All other things being equal, we could get promoted, finish 11th next year, and be replaced the following year by Wakefield after they finished 3rd or 4th in the Championship with smaller crowds than us.

[The Grinder]

3 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

I don't believe it will be a closed shop.  I'm happy to trust that IMG know their onions.

That is exactly what it will become, see the the IMG presentation here on slide 15. In essence this means that all you have to do is to be in top 12 ranked teams (the grading A, B & C is a bit meaningless in truth).

So if every year the top 12 teams in SL have the best fandom, performance and finances because they are in SL (which is more than likely) it just becomes a closed shop.

[Rarefrith]

3 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Let's say Wakefield averaged 4.5k home crowds for their last 2 years in SL and get 2.5k in Championship next year (if relegated).

And let's say we averaged 2.8k in our last 2 years in Championship and 5k in SL (if promoted).

From what we know of the IMG rules, they would score more than us on attendance points.

And if they finish 10th (as they did last year), 12th and then 3rd in Championship, and we finish 2nd, 1st in Championship and then 11th in SL, they will score higher than us in that category too.

All other things being equal, we could get promoted, finish 11th next year, and be replaced the following year by Wakefield after they finished 3rd or 4th in the Championship with smaller crowds than us.

Summed up perfectly. It’s an absolute farce and not sport. I’m out. 

[David Shepherd]

2 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Let's say Wakefield averaged 4.5k home crowds for their last 2 years in SL and get 2.5k in Championship next year (if relegated).

And let's say we averaged 2.8k in our last 2 years in Championship and 5k in SL (if promoted).

From what we know of the IMG rules, they would score more than us on attendance points.

And if they finish 10th (as they did last year), 12th and then 3rd in Championship, and we finish 2nd, 1st in Championship and then 11th in SL, they will score higher than us in that category too.

All other things being equal, we could get promoted, finish 11th next year, and be replaced the following year by Wakefield after they finished 3rd or 4th in the Championship with smaller crowds than us.

Attendances are just one small part of the overall score. We would also get a small bonus for winning the championship.

Look at our foundation, it's absolutely fantastic at what it does. Certainly more active than Wakey or Cas and worth more than the difference between 12th in SL and 1st in Championship.

 

I get that I'm an outlier among Fev fans.  I've spent way too much time looking at this scheme and I can't help but like what I see.  It's rational and fair and I honestly don't think we've anything at all to fear.

 

Anyway, must do some work.  The boss (Mrs Shepherd) is giving me some right grief.

 

[Rarefrith]

1 minute ago, David Shepherd said:

Attendances are just one small part of the overall score. We would also get a small bonus for winning the championship.

Look at our foundation, it's absolutely fantastic at what it does. Certainly more active than Wakey or Cas and worth more than the difference between 12th in SL and 1st in Championship.

 

I get that I'm an outlier among Fev fans.  I've spent way too much time looking at this scheme and I can't help but like what I see.  It's rational and fair and I honestly don't think we've anything at all to fear.

 

Anyway, must do some work.  The boss (Mrs Shepherd) is giving me some right grief.

 

My version of fair is the worst team in super league get relegated and the best team in the championship get promoted. It’s why we watch sport right? How can anyone be happy with it being decided on a spreadsheet every season with a formula heavily suited to the status quo. 

[The Phantom Horseman]

6 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

 

I get that I'm an outlier among Fev fans.  I've spent way too much time looking at this scheme and I can't help but like what I see.  It's rational and fair and I honestly don't think we've anything at all to fear.

 

 

On the contrary, I think fair play to you for stating your views. I actually really hope you're right, and I'd much rather read that than the usual "it's all bent" victim complex/conspiracy theory stuff. I just worry that the guidelines set will make it too difficult for Championship clubs (not just us) to outscore SL teams. Maybe I'll be proved wrong, I hope so.

Edited April 19, 2023 by The Phantom Horseman

[sentoffagain2]

  Under the proposals i can only see the standard in the Championship going down.With no promotion to aim at the games will become meaningless.Why pay good contract money to sign better players with nowt to show for it only being champions of the division.It will work for anyone with 4 or 5 million to come in with a team like Toronto did and outclass the rest of the Championship hoping to be selected for SL on that basis.All they would need is a decent ground to play out of and the rest will follow.

[Monkeymagic22]

15 minutes ago, Rarefrith said:

We could go up on the pitch this season. Do a Leigh in super league next season and still be relegated. Or we stay down, win the grand final in 2024 and not be promoted. It’s not sport, it is a stitch up. I’m not going to games when there is no jeopardy on the pitch. Went through that before, it’s a different form of licensing. If you can’t  see that I don’t know where you are looking. You need to read closely at the criteria. The game outside super league is dead and I’m done with the sport after this season. 

I agree. For us it’s do or die this season. If we do get promoted, we’ve got a chance of staying up, probably slim but at least a chance. Fail this year and we won’t ever be promoted. 

[David Shepherd]

59 minutes ago, Monkeymagic22 said:

I agree. For us it’s do or die this season. If we do get promoted, we’ve got a chance of staying up, probably slim but at least a chance. Fail this year and we won’t ever be promoted. 

Say we do get promoted this year (something wrong if we don’t). Everything is stacked against us next year. We get last choice on available players, the other 11 SL clubs having snapped up the pick of the available players months before our final.

Let’s assume that every other aspect of the club is performing well. Crowds are up, money is rolling in, foundation are in more schools than ever before. Social media engagement is through the roof. We’ve invested that WMDC £2m wisely.

Do we really want a season of misery followed by immediate relegation? We’ve spent 15 years and millions of pounds to get to the promised land. Everything else is brilliant, yet we’re back down and fighting for another go at getting up.

This is why I support the new way of doing things.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

Statement from Barrow https://www.barrowrlfc.com/latest-news/club-statement-img-vote/

Couple of interesting snippets in there:

Barrow Raiders were disappointed, despite repeated requests, that we were denied access to the detail of the proposals. 

We were told that we would be able to attract investors because we would know exactly what we needed to improve to become an A-grade club. Unfortunately with the lack of detail in the proposal that transparency has yet to emerge. We had hoped we would have sight of the detail before the vote.

[POR]

NOW the dust has settled looks like some on here think it will be the death of FEV without knowing what ranking points we will receive  well I don't  WHY easy according to the board 

the board feels that IMG present the best hope for the sport’s future, and the leadership that the sport so desperately needs.

and

We believe that we stand in good stead with the IMG grading criteria 

[J Phil Loxton]

It's not just about Fev though. We are starting to sound like once we are there and accepted that everything in the garden will be rosie. It's about the game. It's about being a part of sport that allows teams to go up and down with promotion based on results. Do we just become 'one of them'? and to hell with what's beneath us.

[sentoffagain2]

   Nowt else to say it's been voted through and we will have to see how it works.As my old gran used to say (you have made your bed you will have to lie in it}.

[J Phil Loxton]

14 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

   Nowt else to say it's been voted through and we will have to see how it works.As my old gran used to say (you have made your bed you will have to lie in it}.

It's sad really because they were brought in to improve the game NOT to preserve each individual rights of super League clubs to maintain their  positions in the higher echelons of the game. What does this do to improve the product on the field to encourage youngsters to become interested? Do they think that new fans will now come flocking to watch Dewsbury Oldham Batley and Swinton etc which was an important issue with the game?. The answer is No not really. Fev have often been the beacon for small clubs to emulate them in years gone by. Fans of these smaller clubs will walk away in their droves and the game will become more insular. We will shortly need an app on our phones to work out if we have gained promotion or not when the grand final is over.

[sweaty craiq]

We have been to 5 grounds this season in SL, Catalan, Hull and Wire are first class. HKR are improving massively but parking is awful and still retains a few Knobheads but mainly kids. Then we have Wakefield, it is shocking!!! nice flat pitch now though and what looks like a great stand rising. Away terrace has no height to view, bogs are interesting but they get food n beer out quickly - and great fans. It has pros and cons compared to POR and they are the ones you will replace at year end - if you do go up I can see Wakey being in a right mess financially, which may give you 12/13th spot depending on TO

Edited April 27, 2023 by sweaty craiq

[Monkeymagic22]

One argument that has been used for this nee system is it causes ‘boom and bust’ for promoted/relegated teams, but surely if an adequate parachute payment is provided to relegated teams, this allows strong Championship teams to grow. Not that I’m suggesting that the SL clubs want to keep this money for themselves

[sweaty craiq]

8 hours ago, Monkeymagic22 said:

One argument that has been used for this nee system is it causes ‘boom and bust’ for promoted/relegated teams, but surely if an adequate parachute payment is provided to relegated teams, this allows strong Championship teams to grow. Not that I’m suggesting that the SL clubs want to keep this money for themselves

The relegated club comes down keeps a good squad and goes back up therefore ruining the Championship 

[Monkeymagic22]

45 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

The relegated club comes down keeps a good squad and goes back up therefore ruining the Championship 

But it gives confidence that a team can attempt promotion.

[lingaro]

On 19/04/2023 at 13:20, David Shepherd said:

Wakey are a financial basket case. We are always looking at new ways to make revenue from our big asset. we've proved we can still field an expensive squad despite a massive drop in TV money.

Fandom isn't just attendances, it's social media engagement, getting more fans in (Cas probably have hit their ceiling, we have much more room to grow). 

Stadium - It's the best in the area.

We have no reason to fear this system

Wakefield has the same catchment as us and cash and Dewsbury

 

9 hours ago, Monkeymagic22 said:

One argument that has been used for this nee system is it causes ‘boom and bust’ for promoted/relegated teams, but surely if an adequate parachute payment is provided to relegated teams, this allows strong Championship teams to grow. Not that I’m suggesting that the SL clubs want to keep this money for themselves

Just share the bloody money out equally. 

[Monkeymagic22]

Just now, lingaro said:

Wakefield has the same catchment as us and cash and Dewsbury

 

Just share the bloody money out equally. 

Ideally, but realistically that won’t happen. 

[David Shepherd]

1 hour ago, lingaro said:

Just share the bloody money out equally. 

Never going to happen. SL teams provide the content that Sky pay for. Only right that they keep the majority of the cash.