Salford fan shares and financial issues.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Oxford said:

It was an "if" Leonard and really just for those who keep posting dire doom messages and little else.

Being a fan run club is a dicey gamble and if it comes off will be quite an achievement and if they get enough backing it could prove to be the making of their aspirations and ambitions.

It's fascinating that among other clubs on here SRD have been bashed for years for lacking ambition and now it's a case of curbing them.

Sounds very much like a lose lose job to me.

 

No problem - it was more a wider comment to other posts.

With the TV money - seems to me that going bust is just a function of whether a side is relegated and that is not on the horizon for SRD.

Fair play to them if they can raise money through other avenues. They seem to be doing the right things.

[Guest]

They also seem to be slowly increasing their crowds as well. With a bit of luck can break the 5k average this season.

[Oxford]

2 hours ago, Leonard said:

They also seem to be slowly increasing their crowds as well. With a bit of luck can break the 5k average this season.

They seem to have made huge efforts in this regard and slow as it is just shows what hard work it is in that neck of the woods.

Came back to this with another quote

"Over 400 investors. It'll be a real achievement if we can get to 1,000 investors." 

These are the signs of ambition, involvement and all you'd want from fans being connected to a club.

And good IMG fodder too!

Edited May 4, 2023 by Oxford

[Gavin Harrison]

On 02/05/2023 at 16:31, Oxford said:

All I can say FTV is you must love standing out like a sore thumb!

SRD were one of the few I've seen to far to put the news that Physical Disability is on at the magic Weekend once again. And their Arise vid shows inclusivity and fanbase is at the heart of all this.

But for some good news is not news.

https://deviltalk.co.uk/thread/3173/salford-devils-community-share-scheme?page=1

As I keep saying hear it from SRD fans themselves before you speak for them.

The PDRL side is nothing to do with SRD. It's the SRD Foundation which runs all the community work.

[Gavin Harrison]

8 hours ago, Leonard said:

They also seem to be slowly increasing their crowds as well. With a bit of luck can break the 5k average this season.

Salford were the lowest supported club last year & they might well be again this time. Vying with Wakefield for the honour.

Over the season, I doubt they will see much change at all.

The fans arevery fickle. A run like the one Hull FC had & they would soon be sub 3k crowds.

[Griff]

14 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Community Share Offer Document

Business Plan

Again, I implore you to read what they are actually saying to get the answers to the questions you keep asking. You might believe their plans not to be realistic, that wouldn't be an unreasonable critique, but making out like they're just asking for 250k as if it's a bucket collection isn't a fair representation. 

It's strong on target setting.

How they intend to achieve those targets seems to be commercially sensitive.

[Man of Kent]

Having read the documents, I’m impressed by the depth of thought into this venture, and that it recognises some fans are more equal than others (ie tiered membership).

It also seems to recognise the need for strong central leadership with the CEO retaining much of his operational power over the rugby club (as sole director of Salford City Reds Ltd) while having a strategic role for fans on sub-committees. 

On the face of it, this seems well placed to succeed.

[idrewthehaggis]

On 28/04/2023 at 21:25, Ray Cashmere said:

Just a couple of points to address the (perfectly reasonable) cynics in the room:

• The Community Share Offering has been in the works  by the club for a couple of years now, this has not been a sudden reaction to an immediate cashflow issue (which there may or may not be, but which no one on here knows the details);
• This is not a rejection of a traditional ownership model. The club is, as we speak, approaching Salford businessmen/businesses as potential benefactors (the £10,000+ share option is a not so subtle reflection of this); 
• The club will benefit financially from the new stadium deal whereby F&B and non-matchday revenues will, for the first time, be retained.

 SRD are in the same position that every other professional rugby league club (save for, I would guess, Leeds and Catalans) in the Northern Hemisphere would be in without a benefactor to underwrite the losses. Super League, and its clubs, do not generate sufficient revenues to sustain successful and ambitious sport.

The club is, quite wisely, exploring as many different opportunities as possible to overcome this problem. 

It may ultimately fail, but it is not a last-ditch attempt to meet the day-to-day running costs of the club.

There is far more cause for (pragmatic) optimism than there has been for many years at the club.

 

 

Mature sensible post Ray.

Just to say back when Koukash asked for feedback on a possible re-design, I and a number of supporters argued SRD should be looking to fan ownership like FC United for inspiration. 

The Supporters Trust have long advocated this.

And King announced it was going to be delivered this year, last summer.

So no, it isn't born this Spring as a last desperate action. It is a long term desire.

 

[idrewthehaggis]

And as the sun falls on this Saturday, the total is £131,000 from 470 supporters.

1/10 of average attendance. Like an extra game. Or an extra 5,000 fans on the gate.

That and the unique benefits of the democratization of the club and the Game.

Thought is imagine if the RFL had established such a similar supporters Bond from day one.

Each year 1/10 of the 110,000 total support of SL clubs, investing £100 per season over 25 plus years.

Are we talking the millions that would make the difference? 

 

[LeytherRob]

11 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

And as the sun falls on this Saturday, the total is £131,000 from 470 supporters.

1/10 of average attendance. Like an extra game. Or an extra 5,000 fans on the gate.

That and the unique benefits of the democratization of the club and the Game.

Thought is imagine if the RFL had established such a similar supporters Bond from day one.

Each year 1/10 of the 110,000 total support of SL clubs, investing £100 per season over 25 plus years.

Are we talking the millions that would make the difference? 

 

Isn't the SRD share issue a single payment though, not £100 every year? 

[idrewthehaggis]

3 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

Isn't the SRD share issue a single payment though, not £100 every year? 

Well so far yes, but I am minded to imagine first there will be some fee to remain a stakeholder and that there will be concurrent fund raisers.

If you re-read my post, I was speculating on a RFL supporters Bond.

 

 

[sweaty craiq]

Is this a trust or a bucket collection? The CEO retains control with the plebs votes not really counting and no obvious plans for Y2 etc. A number of clubs have ISA’s raising cash for their clubs eg LISA has raised over £500k since being formed. A FCU type trust would probably work better, turn loans into shares and £x per share made available with monthly DD to support continual investment

[Griff]

On 07/05/2023 at 00:34, idrewthehaggis said:

Well so far yes, but I am minded to imagine first there will be some fee to remain a stakeholder....

Depends what you mean by that but that could be unlawful.

You don't see Shelloil asking for a subscription every year.

It's the one-off nature of the funding which is its weakness.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Griff

[Griff]

5 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Is this a trust or a bucket collection? 

Bucket collection. I said so early in the thread.

[Man of Kent]

59 minutes ago, Griff said:

Bucket collection. I said so early in the thread.

Bucket collections don’t have voting rights, to be fair. 

[DI Keith Fowler]

6 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Is this a trust or a bucket collection? The CEO retains control with the plebs votes not really counting and no obvious plans for Y2 etc. A number of clubs have ISA’s raising cash for their clubs eg LISA has raised over £500k since being formed. A FCU type trust would probably work better, turn loans into shares and £x per share made available with monthly DD to support continual investment

The CEO doesn't retain control the entire board is going to resign after a fixed period. Then they're having elections to make up the new one with all shareholders having 1 vote and being eligible to stand.

There's also a 5 year plan on the website, it's all been explained again I must ask people to read the documentation before commenting because we're just going round in circles. 

[Griff]

2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Bucket collections don’t have voting rights, to be fair. 

What influence does a 1% holding - or less - have?

 

[Man of Kent]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

What influence does a 1% holding - or less - have?

 

If you mean one share - 1% would be much more than one share - the influence would be electing/getting rid of the board and influencing club policy. 

That’s a good point actually…do we know the existing shareholding breakdown in Salford Holdings?

[Griff]

8 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

If you mean one share - 1% would be much more than one share - the influence would be electing/getting rid of the board and influencing club policy. 

One share, 1% - you'll need a lot of mates to elect/get rid of the board.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

The CEO doesn't retain control the entire board is going to resign after a fixed period. Then they're having elections to make up the new one with all shareholders having 1 vote and being eligible to stand.

There's also a 5 year plan on the website, it's all been explained again I must ask people to read the documentation before commenting because we're just going round in circles. 

Most people on TotalRL can't change their underwear daily - let alone read.

[sweaty craiq]

1 hour ago, Leonard said:

Most people on TotalRL can't change their underwear daily - let alone read.

Help me out please, as far as I can see Salford RD holdings is a dormant company that owns Salford city reds 2014 ltd which is £3m in debt. A Community co op has been set up to hold any cash raised which may, I dont know, have some tax benefits like gift aid and corporation tax. Does the share apply to the CoOp, why is SRD dormant, How many shares are available, can the CoOp control the business and if so what happens to existing shares and who pays the £3m debt or is this a classic roll it and move on scheme??

your help in allowing me understand it would be greatly appreciated

[Gavin Harrison]

On 07/05/2023 at 00:34, idrewthehaggis said:

Well so far yes, but I am minded to imagine first there will be some fee to remain a stakeholder and that there will be concurrent fund raisers.

If you re-read my post, I was speculating on a RFL supporters Bond.

 

 

There can be no change of terms of share ownership once purchased.

It's a one off payment. There could be a further share issue, but only if agreed by current shareholders.

Given there's no market value & shares cannot be bought/sold, this may be the way to raise more money in future.

[dboy]

What is the deadline for the fundraiser?

It seems the scheme is £119000 short at this point - so only just over 50% of the target.

Has any money changed hands yet, or is it just pledges at this stage?

[LeytherRob]

41 minutes ago, dboy said:

What is the deadline for the fundraiser?

It seems the scheme is £119000 short at this point - so only just over 50% of the target.

Has any money changed hands yet, or is it just pledges at this stage?

5th June 5pm is the deadline. The documentation written by SRD states that is £250k isn't hit all pledges will be returned, however it appears whoever set up the crowdfunder page selected the option to keep all pledges regardless of the amount raised. So it isn't entirely clear what will happen at this point.

I'm a little surprised none of the more cynical journos have looked into any of this a bit deeper to be honest.

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

5th June 5pm is the deadline. The documentation written by SRD states that is £250k isn't hit all pledges will be returned, however it appears whoever set up the crowdfunder page selected the option to keep all pledges regardless of the amount raised. So it isn't entirely clear what will happen at this point.

I'm a little surprised none of the more cynical journos have looked into any of this a bit deeper to be honest.

Even a sympathetic "helpful explainer for anyone wanting to get involved" wouldn't be amiss.

Perhaps the lack of coverage is an indictment of the situation at large.