Fri 9th June - Sun 11th June : The Betfred Championship Match Thread

[The Phantom Horseman]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

 Fev's future is in the hands of its officers in charge, you don't have to do he wholesale changes as Mr Beaumont did, just a couple of those player's capable of pushing you over the top of everyone else, bottomless funds are not required.
 

We are all well aware of the impending situation Harry but YOU CAN'T SPEND MONEY YOU DON'T HAVE. You just don't seem able to grasp this.

[The Blues Ox]

With the new IMG rankings coming in there is probably less incentive for any team to boom and bust this season depending on how they see their team ranking in the grand scheme of things. Fax are one of the teams who have money available to bring in players as the season progresses but it would be madness to spend a shed load of money which still won't be enough to put you as head and shoulders above the rest like Leigh did, so you have the risk of losing the big one off game. Then you have it where whoever goes up this year will finish bottom of SL the following year and its probably then maybe 50/50 at best that the IMG ratings go in your favor and you keep that place.

I would say the outliners to that would be if Toulouse went up, I don't think they would lose their spot giving us the closed shop that many of us expect. Obviously the other problem is where do you find these top class players at this stage of the season without paying vastly over the odds? The stars aligned for Leigh in that they had money in abundance and a lot of top class players became available for various reasons. As it stands where are Fev getting a top class half back from that would be willing to come to them and not break the bank.

The Leigh model was an outliner and is not a realistic option for any current championship team at this point as much as all of them would love to be able to follow it.

Edited June 13 by The Blues Ox

[Harry Stottle]

32 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

We are all well aware of the impending situation Harry but YOU CAN'T SPEND MONEY YOU DON'T HAVE. You just don't seem able to grasp this.

Has the old saying goes Phantom "there is more than one way to skin a cat", you make it sound as though you need to have a spare million to flash around, but the reality is nothing at all like that is required, but whatever Fev does I hope that come the end of the season you will not once again be walking down the aisle behind the bride.

[The Phantom Horseman]

38 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Has the old saying goes Phantom "there is more than one way to skin a cat", you make it sound as though you need to have a spare million to flash around, but the reality is nothing at all like that is required

If you've got a surefire way of suddenly unearthing chunks of money, and know of a couple of NRL starting-calibre players who fancy a stint at a Championship team, I'm sure Messrs Campbell and Vickers would love to hear from you! As would at least half a dozen SL coaches who have publicly bemoaned the difficulty in signing players of any quality currently.

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

If you've got a surefire way of suddenly unearthing chunks of money, and know of a couple of NRL starting-calibre players who fancy a stint at a Championship team, I'm sure Messrs Campbell and Vickers would love to hear from you! As would at least half a dozen SL coaches who have publicly bemoaned the difficulty in signing players of any quality currently.

OK, best of luck.

So that being the case as you describe above, what is the promoted team for next year going to do? and how do you think they will go in SL '24.

[The Phantom Horseman]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

OK, best of luck.

So that being the case as you describe above, what is the promoted team for next year going to do? and how do you think they will go in SL '24.

I think they be doing remarkably well if they don't struggle big-time! The system as it stands is stacked against the promoted team given it's so hard to recruit unless you are in a position to offer SL-level contracts well before you are promoted.

I think if/when that happens it will then be used as an indication of "why promotion and relegation doesn't work" and as a justification for the IMG-style way forward.

[Harry Stottle]

27 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

I think they be doing remarkably well if they don't struggle big-time! The system as it stands is stacked against the promoted team given it's so hard to recruit unless you are in a position to offer SL-level contracts well before you are promoted.

I think if/when that happens it will then be used as an indication of "why promotion and relegation doesn't work" and as a justification for the IMG-style way forward.

Can't argue with your last paragraph Phantom, but I can't see removing the competition in the 2nd tier which has a purpose - as in promotion - will do the Championship any good whatsoever in the long term, last time attendances fell away alarmingly I believe it will do the same again.

[The Blues Ox]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Has the old saying goes Phantom "there is more than one way to skin a cat", you make it sound as though you need to have a spare million to flash around, but the reality is nothing at all like that is required, but whatever Fev does I hope that come the end of the season you will not once again be walking down the aisle behind the bride.

Its not even a spare million though, most Championship clubs are living hand to mouth and would be lucky to be able to put their hands on 10k nevermind upwards of 50k that they would probably need to bring in a player who is distinctly better than what they have for half a season.

In my opinion there isn't currently a team in the championship that are anywhere near ready, or could be ready for SL by the time the new SL season were to start. It would make sense for the team that does get promoted to simply keep pretty much their current playing roster and bank the extra sky money and see where the land lies after the first round of rankings come out. Can you imagine if say Fev, Sheffield, Batley, Fax etc got promoted and then went full time only to get the boot by the IMG rankings the following season, it would be a disaster for them. Now if they were given assurances that they would keep their place for at least another season then it becomes a totally different prospect and gives them some incentive.

[David Shepherd]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Has the old saying goes Phantom "there is more than one way to skin a cat", you make it sound as though you need to have a spare million to flash around, but the reality is nothing at all like that is required, but whatever Fev does I hope that come the end of the season you will not once again be walking down the aisle behind the bride.

Thing is Harry, if we’re signing anyone now to blow the rest away, we need them on 18 month contracts to have any chance of avoiding 12th place next year.

Mark Campbell’s pockets aren’t as deep as Degsy’s and he can’t take that risk. You’ve proved that you need to go up with an SL ready squad. We won’t do that and it’s likely we’ll be straight back down. (Assuming we manage to go up, by no means a certainty)

Unless I win the euro millions tonight of course.

Edited June 13 by David Shepherd

[kiggy]

2 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

If you've got a surefire way of suddenly unearthing chunks of money, and know of a couple of NRL starting-calibre players who fancy a stint at a Championship team, I'm sure Messrs Campbell and Vickers would love to hear from you! As would at least half a dozen SL coaches who have publicly bemoaned the difficulty in signing players of any quality currently.

One thing I thought of about with TO after watching the highlights. When a player gets injured the state will pay their salary (I think) up to 80%, e.g. Reuben Rennie not playing again this season. That should free up a chunk of money to bring in someone new...finding someone available and who wants to play in France is the sticking point. 

[Bring back GB]

51 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Thing is Harry, if we’re signing anyone now to blow the rest away, we need them on 18 month contracts to have any chance of avoiding 12th place next year.

Mark Campbell’s pockets aren’t as deep as Degsy’s and he can’t take that risk. You’ve proved that you need to go up with an SL ready squad. We won’t do that and it’s likely we’ll be straight back down. (Assuming we manage to go up, by no means a certainty)

Unless I win the euro millions tonight of course.

Isn't there no relegation from 2024 ?

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

Its not even a spare million though, most Championship clubs are living hand to mouth and would be lucky to be able to put their hands on 10k nevermind upwards of 50k that they would probably need to bring in a player who is distinctly better than what they have for half a season.

In my opinion there isn't currently a team in the championship that are anywhere near ready, or could be ready for SL by the time the new SL season were to start. It would make sense for the team that does get promoted to simply keep pretty much their current playing roster and bank the extra sky money and see where the land lies after the first round of rankings come out. Can you imagine if say Fev, Sheffield, Batley, Fax etc got promoted and then went full time only to get the boot by the IMG rankings the following season, it would be a disaster for them. Now if they were given assurances that they would keep their place for at least another season then it becomes a totally different prospect and gives them some incentive.

Good points Oxy but that is why I say for the team who gets promoted this year, they have a far better chance of staying in SL for '25 than hoping to get into SL via the IMG browny points system. For a start they will be over £1 million pound in funding better off, they will almost certainly get more revenue from higher gate receipts, Leigh with nearly with half a season gone have over 4,000 fan increase on last years game average £25/ head that is over £100,000 extra per home game, and if a club owns it's own ground which Leigh don't they will make all the extra profit revenue from Food and Drink sales. 

As I said in discussion with @The Phantom Horseman Fev are probably in the best place with their present squad to go just the extra step in recruitment to enable promotion to become a reality, if I was Mr Campbell I would have weighed all these possibilities up and would be having sleepless nights thinking should I or shouldn't I, with especially the way Fev fans keep advising and tell us how assest rich they are as a club with the land they own and the renting of their facilities to other organisations there must definitely be some bargaining power in that lot, buisness people take these type of financial decisions and decide to go for it or leave well alone as I think Mr Beaumont did, he is not mega rich with money he can squander, bit it seems his gamble has paid of with Leigh Centurions - as they were when he hatched this plan - having nowhere near the assests that Featherstone Rovers have, he gambled and it has paid off, I doubt he would have done it if it just meant being the best in the Championship he saw the honey pot and went for it.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Bring back GB said:

Isn't there no relegation from 2024 ?

Correct GB, see the post above getting into SL is paramount this season.

[Blind side johnny]

2 hours ago, Bring back GB said:

Isn't there no relegation from 2024 ?

Now you've done it!

[Griff]

4 hours ago, Bring back GB said:

Isn't there no relegation from 2024 ?

Who knows?

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

6 hours ago, kiggy said:

One thing I thought of about with TO after watching the highlights. When a player gets injured the state will pay their salary (I think) up to 80%, e.g. Reuben Rennie not playing again this season. That should free up a chunk of money to bring in someone new...finding someone available and who wants to play in France is the sticking point. 

Depends on the salary cap situation

[kiggy]

58 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Depends on the salary cap situation

I doubt very much the TO salaries come any where near a cap. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

1 hour ago, kiggy said:

I doubt very much the TO salaries come any where near a cap. 

The cap is the lower of £1.8m (or whatever the figure currently is) and the 'sustainable cap' (based on projected income) so TO, and any other club, could be at their cap without being anywhere near the maximum allowed. Also while it is possible for SL clubs to remove injured players from their cap calculation there is no mention of that option being available to Championship and L1 clubs in their cap rules!

[PECETTO]

On 10/06/2023 at 21:42, The Phantom Horseman said:

I think I saw Reuben Rennie in a boot after the game so unless I have mistaken him for someone else there might be another long-term injury there I'm afraid.

Reuben is out for the season