Fri 25th - Sun 27th Aug: The Betfred Championship Match Thread

[watcherofRL]

12 hours ago, Londonbornirishbred said:

Faith? Fan estimates of between 300 and 400 in attendance at the last 2 games. Given Hughes target of 5000 per game is due by this seasons end and the current average is now lower than at Ealing, I sincerely hope that your alluded inside knowledge includes a new owner with incredibly deep pockets and the ability to employ competent staff. I attended academy games at The Stoop with crowds of over 1,000 back in 2008 and I have to say that it does seem that even the die hard fans are now starting to drift away. A great many I went with no longer bother and now attend Football or Union, which is very sad, but indicative of Hughes's attitude towards fans.

As for the play offs? Anything can happen in knock-out footie, but ask yourself how will the other SL clubs feel about London back in the top flight? 

No one wants to see London back in SL as inconvenient for them (not consideration for the fact that all those teams Toulouse and Catalan excluded only do the journey once and London do it the other 14 times! It’s always been An imbalance and the inconvenience is why the heartlands continually try to get any other team in that means a quick jaunt along the motorway! Credi where it’s due though, London have began to gel and the results speak for themselves

[watcherofRL]

15 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

A workmanlike win for Fev against Keighley, who defended manfully, but of more concern to Fev are injuries to Arama Hau, who had to be carried off on a stretcher following a head injury, and Luke Briscoe, who also had to be helped/carried off with a knee injury that didn't look good.

Fev have pretty much secured top spot now (would need four Fev defeats, four Toulouse wins and a points difference turnaround of about 230 points) but still have to play those four league games and like every team will be anxious to avoid further injuries.

So are we going to see Fev put out a weaker team to protect their 1st choice as this would have massive impact on the teams all challenging for other 5 spots! Would be poor show but can see it happening!

Edited August 28, 2023 by watcherofRL

[The Phantom Horseman]

49 minutes ago, watcherofRL said:

So are we going to see Fev put out a weaker team to protect their 1st choice as this would have massive impact on the teams all challenging for other 5 spots! Would be poor show but can see it happening!

Well there's absolutely nothing to stop them doing so seeing as teams like St Helens have put out virtually second-string teams for certain SL games in recent years and more recently Hull KR before the Challenge Cup final.

But in Fev's case, it's not going to happen because we don't have a reserve team and we have a squad of about 26-27 of whom 5 or 6 are currently injured. There's precious little between the starters and the fringe players at Fev anyway.

Whether they will be playing at full, play-off intensity in those 4 games is another matter of course.

[Daft old hooker]

51 minutes ago, watcherofRL said:

So are we going to see Fev put out a weaker team to protect their 1st choice as this would have massive impact on the teams all challenging for other 5 spots! Would be poor show but can see it happening!

Not really they have a few injuries such as Hardcastle, Day, Bussey and Yei plus Briscoe limped off yesterday and Hau was carried off on a stretcher before going to hospital. From my estimation from yesterday that only leaves Hall, Lacans, Wilde, Longstaff and Springer to come into the side none of whom particularly weaken the team.

[Fevrover]

1 hour ago, watcherofRL said:

So are we going to see Fev put out a weaker team to protect their 1st choice as this would have massive impact on the teams all challenging for other 5 spots! Would be poor show but can see it happening!

But it's OK when other teams do it ? It was the same with DR but who knows if we will play a 'weaker' team from our SQUAD.

[roversspud]

1 hour ago, watcherofRL said:

So are we going to see Fev put out a weaker team to protect their 1st choice as this would have massive impact on the teams all challenging for other 5 spots! Would be poor show but can see it happening!

If they do, they will have earned the right to do so! And I'm sure the coaching staff will say that they're not concerned with the other teams only with their own. Can't see why it would be a poor show. Fev have to do whatever is necessary in their view to be prepared for the biggest playoffs yet.

[Fevrover]

1 hour ago, roversspud said:

If they do, they will have earned the right to do so! And I'm sure the coaching staff will say that they're not concerned with the other teams only with their own. Can't see why it would be a poor show. Fev have to do whatever is necessary in their view to be prepared for the biggest playoffs yet.

Same as a lot of other teams especially SL teams.

[SUPERSTUD]

On 27/08/2023 at 18:55, The Blues Ox said:

There still seems to be a few of our fans that are quite happy with how we have gone this season and thats despite the majority of people not having us down to finish outside the top 4 and we were discussing today if at the start of the season we would have taken 8th place but it meant that we got to see our team win at Wembley. I'm really undecided on that as much as I enjoyed Wembley I wasn't nervous about the game and it was a nice day out but there is just something about play off rugby that I really enjoy especially when the prize at the end of it is so big.

Hi. Always liked and respected your contribution. Hence why I am posting this directly to you. As you know Liam was at the club previously as were a lot of the current players. What do you see changing under Liam? If players have recently signed an extension let’s say Calcott then Liam must have you would hope authorised it even though not yet officially in post yet . Sutcliffe has Liam brought him in or is that just for this season in other words a Grix stop gap? After his performance yesterday shooting out etc god only knows. In conclusion feel that Liam may have landed on his feet with this one as it looks like a low league position is on the cards. So the only way is UP. Finally my only fear is if Liam is cushty with most of the players what is ultimately going to change?

[The Blues Ox]

11 hours ago, SUPERSTUD said:

Hi. Always liked and respected your contribution. Hence why I am posting this directly to you. As you know Liam was at the club previously as were a lot of the current players. What do you see changing under Liam? If players have recently signed an extension let’s say Calcott then Liam must have you would hope authorised it even though not yet officially in post yet . Sutcliffe has Liam brought him in or is that just for this season in other words a Grix stop gap? After his performance yesterday shooting out etc god only knows. In conclusion feel that Liam may have landed on his feet with this one as it looks like a low league position is on the cards. So the only way is UP. Finally my only fear is if Liam is cushty with most of the players what is ultimately going to change?

Its a really tough question to answer. On one side when Liam was at the club we were playing the best rugby that I have seen us play in over a decade but when he and Scott Grix left near the back end of the season our for dipped culminating in a home loss in the playoffs to York and then our form this season has not improved with questionable signings and team selections. My hope is we can get back to how we were performing when Liam was at the club.

The other side is that it might just be that a number of players have been at the club for a while now and they might have had their time here, I guess the hope is a new coach is easier to freshen things up rather than a full turnaround of players. I look at our squad of players and wonder what has gone wrong because it was only a minority of people that tipped us outside the top 4 let alone the top 6 and ultimatley it is always the coach that pays the price and we are just lucky that Grix did not sign the new contract that was offered to him.

Regarding signings its really hard to say as Grix and Finn are good mates so maybe there is some influence but Grix does come across as quite stubborn so I would lean towards Finn not having much say and most of the signings have already been made for next season so its questionable how much stamp Liam will get to put on the squad but again looking at the squad most coaches would give their right arm to have this much talent in key positions so he might not be too bothered.

[SUPERSTUD]

3 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

Its a really tough question to answer. On one side when Liam was at the club we were playing the best rugby that I have seen us play in over a decade but when he and Scott Grix left near the back end of the season our for dipped culminating in a home loss in the playoffs to York and then our form this season has not improved with questionable signings and team selections. My hope is we can get back to how we were performing when Liam was at the club.

The other side is that it might just be that a number of players have been at the club for a while now and they might have had their time here, I guess the hope is a new coach is easier to freshen things up rather than a full turnaround of players. I look at our squad of players and wonder what has gone wrong because it was only a minority of people that tipped us outside the top 4 let alone the top 6 and ultimatley it is always the coach that pays the price and we are just lucky that Grix did not sign the new contract that was offered to him.

Regarding signings its really hard to say as Grix and Finn are good mates so maybe there is some influence but Grix does come across as quite stubborn so I would lean towards Finn not having much say and most of the signings have already been made for next season so its questionable how much stamp Liam will get to put on the squad but again looking at the squad most coaches would give their right arm to have this much talent in key positions so he might not be too bothered.

Thanks for responding. Can’t disagree with any of your comments. 

[Ovenden Grunt]

On 27/08/2023 at 18:55, The Blues Ox said:

There still seems to be a few of our fans that are quite happy with how we have gone this season and thats despite the majority of people not having us down to finish outside the top 4 and we were discussing today if at the start of the season we would have taken 8th place but it meant that we got to see our team win at Wembley. I'm really undecided on that as much as I enjoyed Wembley I wasn't nervous about the game and it was a nice day out but there is just something about play off rugby that I really enjoy especially when the prize at the end of it is so big.

I absolutely wouldn't have taken 8th spot and a Wembley appearance. We also had a great weekend in London for Wembley but coming 8th in't 2nd Division isn't my aim or ambition for Halifax RLFC.

[The Blues Ox]

8 hours ago, Ovenden Grunt said:

I absolutely wouldn't have taken 8th spot and a Wembley appearance. We also had a great weekend in London for Wembley but coming 8th in't 2nd Division isn't my aim or ambition for Halifax RLFC.

Too many of our fans happy with mediocrity, other clubs would have moved quicker to remove a coach from his post when it was clear things were not right. In Grix's case maybe the cup run saved him but the fact that the board offered him another contract worrys me. All we used to hear was that we have the 9th or 10 smallest budget in the league so we are actually over achieving. Most people forget the logistics surrounding budgets and even the fact that as we are pretty central to the area the game been played people will actually accept less money to play for us because they have less expenses. Its not rocket science.

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Too many of our fans happy with mediocrity, other clubs would have moved quicker to remove a coach from his post when it was clear things were not right. In Grix's case maybe the cup run saved him but the fact that the board offered him another contract worrys me. All we used to hear was that we have the 9th or 10 smallest budget in the league so we are actually over achieving. Most people forget the logistics surrounding budgets and even the fact that as we are pretty central to the area the game been played people will actually accept less money to play for us because they have less expenses. Its not rocket science.

The whole Championship is a bit mediocre at the moment, the standard has definitely dropped.  People go on about not being enough players for a 14 Team Super League, I'd say the same about the Championship - I think a reduction to 12 may increase standards a bit, plus solve the issue in League 1 for not enough fixtures.

A few years back there were genuinely around 6-8 teams who provided decent encounters.  I look at the table now, and an average Bradford are 3rd.  Still not sure how my team Widnes are still in the hunt for the playoffs (which I hope they miss out and put this sorry season behind us)

[The Blues Ox]

16 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The whole Championship is a bit mediocre at the moment, the standard has definitely dropped.  People go on about not being enough players for a 14 Team Super League, I'd say the same about the Championship - I think a reduction to 12 may increase standards a bit, plus solve the issue in League 1 for not enough fixtures.

A few years back there were genuinely around 6-8 teams who provided decent encounters.  I look at the table now, and an average Bradford are 3rd.  Still not sure how my team Widnes are still in the hunt for the playoffs (which I hope they miss out and put this sorry season behind us)

Yeah I agree there certainly seems to have been a leveling off in standards this season with only Fev who I think have performed to a similar standard as last year near the top of the table. For me Toulouse have been of a similar standard to the likes of Batley and Fax last season. I think Bradford have improved without a doubt but in my opinion not to the point where they would have challenged for 3rd or 4th last season.

[watcherofRL]

On 27/08/2023 at 15:57, ATLANTISMAN said:

Have the faith more going on than you think there:)

How do you know? Think London Fax and Batley might now begin to  now as pressure on coaching team to ‘get it right’ increases and not got experience to take them all the way. With Fev also losing coach things are very interesting! Sheffield, Bradford and Toulouse seem to have stabilised but worry about next few matches as all so tight and DH may be more concerned with who and what he is paying big bucks to/for?

[The Phantom Horseman]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

The whole Championship is a bit mediocre at the moment, the standard has definitely dropped. 

 

 

1 hour ago, The Blues Ox said:

Yeah I agree there certainly seems to have been a leveling off in standards this season with only Fev who I think have performed to a similar standard as last year near the top of the table.

I think this too, I think the biggest clue is comparing the Toulouse promotion-winning team of 2021 to this year's version which is miles weaker across the board yet is still in second place well clear of the remainder.

It's a worry in terms of the SL performance next year for whoever gets promoted, Fev have been by some way the most consistent team but are likely to lose at least three of their better forwards to retirement. Fev will certainly spend money if they do go up but if it isn't Fev (and we haven't been especially convincing lately) then it's going to be an even weaker team on paper - Toulouse are far worse off than they were prior to the 2022 season even accounting for how they lost Ford and Kheirallah in pre-season, and if it's not either Fev or Toulouse that go up then we're potentially looking at teams that have lost 10+ games in a sub-standard Championship season suddenly being elevated to SL and with most of the better SL players already signed up for next year.

The reason for this is not hard to find, the slashing of Championship club budgets at the last Sky money reduction means it's even tougher for them to compete with SL clubs for those fringe players. This is always going to be an issue when there isn't a club with a vastly wealthy owner trying to make the leap from Championship to SL when the previous year they only had around 10% of the funding of SL clubs.

[The Blues Ox]

On the flip side to the new IMG criteria, this will be the first year in a while where it will not matter how strong a team the promoted team can put on the field and in theory they could throw their central funding in to things off the field that may provide more points or simply chuck it in the bank for the following year once SL goes back to the current 12 clubs.

[Ovenden Grunt]

2 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

Too many of our fans happy with mediocrity, other clubs would have moved quicker to remove a coach from his post when it was clear things were not right. In Grix's case maybe the cup run saved him but the fact that the board offered him another contract worrys me. All we used to hear was that we have the 9th or 10 smallest budget in the league so we are actually over achieving. Most people forget the logistics surrounding budgets and even the fact that as we are pretty central to the area the game been played people will actually accept less money to play for us because they have less expenses. Its not rocket science.

I don't think it was the cup runs that saved SG from being moved on although it won't have done him any harm, the fact that he's a popular Halifax lad will have been as much a part of it.The main reason though, i would say, is the Fax board's lack of ambition for the club. Don't forget that this BOD voted for IMG's farcical plans for the game's future and in doing so committed our club to years of what amounts to friendlies unless we get promoted this year. That thinking gets talked about in the pubs and clubs and workplaces and results in pathetic crowds such as last Sunday verses Widnes. Where we go from here is anyone’s guess and although I am critical of the BOD i don't envy them their task ahead and hope somehow they can eventually get Fax back to the top end of British Rugby League. 

[watcherofRL]

On 28/08/2023 at 10:22, roversspud said:

If they do, they will have earned the right to do so! And I'm sure the coaching staff will say that they're not concerned with the other teams only with their own. Can't see why it would be a poor show. Fev have to do whatever is necessary in their view to be prepared for the biggest playoffs yet.

Fair enough