England vs Samoa Series

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

You've noted elsewhere that we have fewer NRL/peak Aussies coming over for the club game, and now we have fewer international sides and players wanting to tour.

You can object to some of the stereotyping whilst acknowledging there is a truth to it.

Nah. This is a stretch.

The last Ashes was due to take place at Bolton, Elland Rd and Spurs, UK home of the NFL. That isn't why the Kangaroos don't want to come.

Top players don't come as much because there is more money in the NRL, not because they don't care for Wigan.

It's possible to believe we should do more in London, France, wherever without sh***ing on the likes of Wigan and Leeds.

[StandOffHalf]

19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

These places have been good enough for RL legends for over 100 years.

I mean, I don't like it. Hard to not think that those sort of thoughts will have influenced the Samoan pull-outs.

[Archie Gordon]

39 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm OK with Wigan and Leeds being locations for internationals, with London ideally. The majority of our most successful series have been NW, NE and London. It's a formula that works.

...

The formula that has worked best has been London as the big one of the three, kicking off the series. It has not been a case of 'with London ideally'. London has been first cab off the rank and it has proved itself in that slot.

Several England Tests in a row now at Warrington, St Helens, Huddersfield and Leeds doesn't seem to be working and gives off Northern Union vibes. And the problem is, we know that the decision-makers in the UK will not see these failures as happening for a lack of ambition. The learnings will be that we've been overambitious and that we need to retreat even further. The absolute tragedy is that a future Test in London becomes ever less likely due to the failure to attract a crowd at Wigan.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Archie Gordon said:

The formula that has worked best has been London as the big one of the three, kicking off the series. It has not been a case of 'with London ideally'. London has been first cab off the rank and it has proved itself in that slot.

Several England Tests in a row now at Warrington, St Helens, Huddersfield and Leeds doesn't seem to be working and gives off Northern Union vibes. And the problem is, we know that the decision-makers in the UK will not see these failures as happening for a lack of ambition. The learnings will be that we've been overambitious and that we need to retreat even further. The absolute tragedy is that a future Test in London becomes ever less likely due to the failure to attract a crowd at Wigan.

We do have a couple of challenges here. One of the biggest is that we just don't play enough games, and pretty much none against the Aussies or Kiwis any more. They are the games that we took to London. Recent history has shown that if we get a series involving those teams we play a game in London.

What we have never done is stage internationals outside of those two in London really (Samoa in the WC Semi was the odd one out). I think we need to work on getting an appropriate ground in play in London/the South which allows us to stage events that may be in that 25k space.  

When I look at the scheduling, the only one that I think was absolutely a car crash was last year. 

[Damien]

5 hours ago, Dave T said:

Nah. This is a stretch.

The last Ashes was due to take place at Bolton, Elland Rd and Spurs, UK home of the NFL. That isn't why the Kangaroos don't want to come.

Top players don't come as much because there is more money in the NRL, not because they don't care for Wigan.

It's possible to believe we should do more in London, France, wherever without sh***ing on the likes of Wigan and Leeds.

That series being cancelled has proved to be disastrous. It followed the London, Lancashire, Yorkshire formula we've all wanted and was the big stadium return we all wanted too.

If events had been different and that series went ahead, and the World Cup not postponed too, I think the international game would be in a very different place.

[Dave T]

19 minutes ago, Damien said:

That series being cancelled has proved to be disastrous. It followed the London, Lancashire, Yorkshire formula we've all wanted and was the big stadium return we all wanted too.

If events had been different and that series went ahead, and the World Cup not postponed too, I think the international game would be in a very different place.

I agree. That's not to say we wouldn't have still made bad calls and unambitious decisions, but for a sustained period we had had some ambitious selections. I hated a lot of things about the world cup, I think they got it horribly wrong, but even that had some glimmers of hope with Newcastle and Arsenal for example. 

It feels at the moment like we have gone back to that 2001 spell where we had to reconcile and for a few years it became very safe, 25k stadia in the North, modest costs, modest returns. 

[Mojo]

On 08/10/2024 at 11:55, UTK said:

Despite turning up every few years with stacked sides Samoa has never really built the culture of consistency that Tonga has. Rather disappointing that this problem has come up again.

Admittedly it doesn't help that they have a strong Penrith contingent who have played as many high-level Club/Origin/International games as possible over the last 4 years.

Credit to the players who do choose to play in the post-season, every single player would have an injury at this point of the season that they could use to be ruled out medically so all players taking the field have made an active decision to do so.

In all fairness to the samoan team most of there key player are in the panthers team and they also play Origin compared to the tongan team. So they'll be playing alot of games this year. Only one Panthers player is playing rep and it's Yeo,  if the samoa  players pull out. I'm hearing word the samoan team list will come out today and it won't be a strong one

[Mojo]

[NRLandSL]

1 hour ago, Mojo said:

No Fa’alogo, To’o, Crichton, Utoikamanu, Paulo, Leniu, Papali’i, Levi, Su’a, Luki and a few others. A lot of massive outs for Samoa

Though seeing Blaize Talagi, Nanai, Mariner and Blore are very good pick ups for Samoa.

starting 13 will probably look like this-

1-Roger Tuivasa-Sheck  
2-Deine Mariner  
3-Izack Tago  
4-Ricky Leutele  
5-Jeral Skelton  
6-Blaize Talagi  
7-Jarome Luai  
8-Francis Molo  
9-Gordon Chan Kum Tong
10-Terrell May  
11-Shawn Blore  
12-Jeremiah Nanai  
13-John Asiata

Not a horrible team but not the greatest, I don’t think this team will Challenge England too much.

[Mojo]

11 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

No Fa’alogo, To’o, Crichton, Utoikamanu, Paulo, Leniu, Papali’i, Levi, Su’a, Luki and a few others. A lot of massive outs for Samoa

Though seeing Blaize Talagi, Nanai, Mariner and Blore are very good pick ups for Samoa.

starting 13 will probably look like this-

1-Roger Tuivasa-Sheck  
2-Deine Mariner  
3-Izack Tago  
4-Ricky Leutele  
5-Jeral Skelton  
6-Blaize Talagi  
7-Jarome Luai  
8-Francis Molo  
9-Gordon Chan Kum Tong
10-Terrell May  
11-Shawn Blore  
12-Jeremiah Nanai  
13-John Asiata

Not a horrible team but not the greatest, I don’t think this team will Challenge England too much.

Solid line up. It's a very solid team and they'll definitely be a bigger challenge then any European team that England would faced. I'm glad Luai is there because if he's in the team anything possible with this line up. I'm surprised none of the samoan boys in the SL final aren't picked 

[NRLandSL]

1 hour ago, Mojo said:

Solid line up. It's a very solid team and they'll definitely be a bigger challenge then any European team that England would faced. I'm glad Luai is there because if he's in the team anything possible with this line up. I'm surprised none of the samoan boys in the SL final aren't picked 

Will be exciting to watch Blaize Talagi, he has potential to be one of the best players in the world one day. I think there’s too much class in the England back line for Samoa and Samoa’s foward pack also doesn’t look particularly strong. England by 30 is my prediction.

Yeah Tyrone May totally deserves a call up, so does Mago and Ese’ese. 

Edited October 9 by NRLandSL

[Mojo]

28 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

Will be exciting to watch Blaize Talagi, he has potential to be one of the best players in the world one day. I think there’s too much class in the England back line for Samoa and Samoa’s foward pack also doesn’t look particularly strong. England by 30 is my prediction.

Yeah Tyrone May totally deserves a call up, so does Mago and Ese’ese. 

I agree I think England will be too good for this team. But at least they're playing a decent opponent and not France after the recent game. Payne Haas is the one to watch out for he just posted the samoan team on his Instagram, I think he'll be playing for Samoa next year and the next world cup. I don't think the aussies will be too happy when that day comes. Tino is also another that might be committed as well

[Welshleaguelover]

1 hour ago, Mojo said:

I agree I think England will be too good for this team. But at least they're playing a decent opponent and not France after the recent game. Payne Haas is the one to watch out for he just posted the samoan team on his Instagram, I think he'll be playing for Samoa next year and the next world cup. I don't think the aussies will be too happy when that day comes. Tino is also another that might be committed as well

Think Tino did actually come out and say it'll be Samoa going forward for him.

[NRLandSL]

57 minutes ago, Mojo said:

I agree I think England will be too good for this team. But at least they're playing a decent opponent and not France after the recent game. Payne Haas is the one to watch out for he just posted the samoan team on his Instagram, I think he'll be playing for Samoa next year and the next world cup. I don't think the aussies will be too happy when that day comes. Tino is also another that might be committed as well

France are a very solid team, they haven’t had a strong performance in England in a while but there is a lot of talent on the French team. This Samoan team vs France would be a pretty close game.

International rugby league desperately needs to introduce a rule around changing nations. It’s beginning to become a joke. The amount of players that are changing nations left right and centre like there changing clubs is silly. Player’s should be committed long term to a national team in my opinion. It makes a mockery out of the international game with all these players playing for who they please when they please.

They should make once your appear for national team you must play for the team for the next 5 years at least, and you must not play for your former national team for at least 2 years if you want to change. Also you should not be able to play for more than 2 national teams and you should only be able to change national teams once in your career. No player should be allowed to play for 2 national teams at once, or have a backup nation if they don’t get selected for aus or nz.

[Mojo]

7 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

France are a very solid team, they haven’t had a strong performance in England in a while but there is a lot of talent on the French team. This Samoan team vs France would be a pretty close game.

International rugby league desperately needs to introduce a rule around changing nations. It’s beginning to become a joke. The amount of players that are changing nations left right and centre like there changing clubs is silly. Player’s should be committed long term to a national team in my opinion. It makes a mockery out of the international game with all these players playing for who they please when they please.

They should make once your appear for national team you must play for the team for the next 5 years at least, and you must not play for your former national team for at least 2 years if you want to change. Also you should not be able to play for more than 2 national teams and you should only be able to change national teams once in your career. No player should be allowed to play for 2 national teams at once, or have a backup nation if they don’t get selected for aus or nz.

France aren't that good. This Samoan team would put 50pts on France tbh

[Mojo]

9 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

France are a very solid team, they haven’t had a strong performance in England in a while but there is a lot of talent on the French team. This Samoan team vs France would be a pretty close game.

International rugby league desperately needs to introduce a rule around changing nations. It’s beginning to become a joke. The amount of players that are changing nations left right and centre like there changing clubs is silly. Player’s should be committed long term to a national team in my opinion. It makes a mockery out of the international game with all these players playing for who they please when they please.

They should make once your appear for national team you must play for the team for the next 5 years at least, and you must not play for your former national team for at least 2 years if you want to change. Also you should not be able to play for more than 2 national teams and you should only be able to change national teams once in your career. No player should be allowed to play for 2 national teams at once, or have a backup nation if they don’t get selected for aus or nz.

You change the eligibility rule to the old ways it'll ruin the international game even more! Hip hopping around different nations isn't as bad as before tho it was only one last year (Taulagi) and only 2 this year (Nanai and Coates)

Nanai and Taulagi are probably gonna stay with Samoa for good now. If Haas and Tino goes to samoa it'll only improve the international game even more because the aussies will be weaker and it creates an even playing field

[Mojo]

15 minutes ago, Welshleaguelover said:

Think Tino did actually come out and say it'll be Samoa going forward for him.

He only said he won't rule out playing for samoa in the future but he hasn't confirmed anything yet

[Dunbar]

3 hours ago, NRLandSL said:

No Fa’alogo, To’o, Crichton, Utoikamanu, Paulo, Leniu, Papali’i, Levi, Su’a, Luki and a few others. A lot of massive outs for Samoa

Though seeing Blaize Talagi, Nanai, Mariner and Blore are very good pick ups for Samoa.

starting 13 will probably look like this-

1-Roger Tuivasa-Sheck  
2-Deine Mariner  
3-Izack Tago  
4-Ricky Leutele  
5-Jeral Skelton  
6-Blaize Talagi  
7-Jarome Luai  
8-Francis Molo  
9-Gordon Chan Kum Tong
10-Terrell May  
11-Shawn Blore  
12-Jeremiah Nanai  
13-John Asiata

Not a horrible team but not the greatest, I don’t think this team will Challenge England too much.

Not a horrible team and some quality in some positions... notably Blore and Nanai in the second row, Luai and some good backs (RTS, Tago, Mariner). But too many weak links as well.  The middles are not strong enough and not enough creativity from the spine.

[NRLandSL]

11 minutes ago, Mojo said:

France aren't that good. This Samoan team would put 50pts on France tbh

No way, would be around 26-12. Wouldn’t at all rule a France win either. France have some top quality players Garcia, Mourge, Romano, Fages, Bousquet, Da Costa, Seguier, Rougé and others. Do you even know a single French player ?

[NRLandSL]

10 minutes ago, Mojo said:

You change the eligibility rule to the old ways it'll ruin the international game even more! Hip hopping around different nations isn't as bad as before tho it was only one last year (Taulagi) and only 2 this year (Nanai and Coates)

Nanai and Taulagi are probably gonna stay with Samoa for good now. If Haas and Tino goes to samoa it'll only improve the international game even more because the aussies will be weaker and it creates an even playing field

If you wan’t international rugby league to remain a silly end of your muck around we’re players represent a different grandparent each year, sure. But if international rugby league want’s to grow there must be structure and coordination around which national team you are allowed to represent and the amount of heritage players nations are allowed to select. International rugby league and rugby league as a whole will never grow unless these regulations are implemented.

[Mojo]

Just now, NRLandSL said:

No way, would be around 26-12. Wouldn’t at all rule a France win either. France have some top quality players Garcia, Mourge, Romano, Fages, Bousquet, Da Costa, Seguier, Rougé and others. Do you even know a single French player ?

I remember someone said the same thing the last world cup and samoa put them away with ease. This Samoan team may not be as strong as before but they're all quality nrl players. To be fair I don't know any of those French players but do you seriously think they can trouble this samoan team or even beat them??

[NRLandSL]

4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Not a horrible team and some quality in some positions... notably Blore and Nanai in the second row, Luai and some good backs (RTS, Tago, Mariner). But too many weak links as well.  The middles are not strong enough and not enough creativity from the spine.

Yeah, the middle looks particularly weak, Molo, May, Asiata and Vaalepu and Palasia off the bench. Very poor besides May.

[Mojo]

Just now, NRLandSL said:

If you wan’t international rugby league to remain a silly end of your muck around we’re players represent a different grandparent each year, sure. But if international rugby league want’s to grow there must be structure and coordination around which national team you are allowed to represent and the amount of heritage players nations are allowed to select. International rugby league and rugby league as a whole will never grow unless these regulations are implemented.

The international game in terms of being competitive is at an all time high. If the rules were changed England wouldn't have an opponent right now. Tonga wouldn't be one of the big nations. The fact that Tonga and Samoa are so good it's all the Pacific Island fans in nz are glued to rugby league instead of rugby union which why the games taking a bit of a hit in nz. There's way more positive then negatives with the new eligibility rule.

[Mojo]

3 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

Yeah, the middle looks particularly weak, Molo, May, Asiata and Vaalepu and Palasia off the bench. Very poor besides May.

Some of those middles can do very well in the SL and since they're playing against SL middles I think it could be an even battle. Pahulu is also another solid middle from the titans

[NRLandSL]

1 minute ago, Mojo said:

I remember someone said the same thing the last world cup and samoa put them away with ease. This Samoan team may not be as strong as before but they're all quality nrl players. To be fair I don't know any of those French players but do you seriously think they can trouble this samoan team or even beat them??

I won’t argue with you about the French World Cup performance. That performance was dreadful and there whole tournament was as a whole. The French have regularly showed they can give an England a relatively close game (only losing by 4 or so tries) despite not having any stand out performances for a while.

France vs Samoa would be pretty close game and France could certainly win on a good day.