England vs Samoa Series

[Click]

3 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

That’s not for this series Click. Nor is it a credible press release. No comment on any players or clubs. No comment on why the players are pulled out. It’s not even a press release from the nation with players pulled out. 

Well its the only press release that has commented on problems that an international series is happening. 

It is a credible press release, it has a comment from the French RL Federation. Are you saying they are lying? 

[Hopie]

12 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

“hey mate, you have a busted shoulder and you’ve played with that busted shoulder for the last six weeks. You need surgery and then time to recover. We’ve lined up a specialist to conduct that surgery next week and your rehab will start immediately and you should be back to training by the new year” is more than acceptable a position for a club to stand by.

Don’t you think?

What I have a problem with is:

"Hey mate, if we had won we would expect you to play for our club next week but as we now deem you are "busted" after our semi final defeat we don't think it is reasonable you play another game in 3 weeks for your country."

Edited September 19 by Hopie

[Sports Prophet]

18 minutes ago, Click said:

Well its the only press release that has commented on problems that an international series is happening. 

It is a credible press release, it has a comment from the French RL Federation. Are you saying they are lying? 

I am saying the press release is not credible because I don’t believe the French have a clue what they are talking about. I don’t think they have spoken to any Lebanese players, I don’t think they have spoken to any NRL clubs.

Most of all, I don’t believe one single source who will do anything they can to avoid scrutiny because that source has shown repeatedly how awful they are at organising international events, when this event was confirmed at the drop of a hat, financed by “privates” related to the touring party.

Lastly, there is ample evidence which goes against any person’s assertion that the NRL/clubs are acting untoward. We have England v Samoa and two tri-series including Aus, NZ, Tonga, PNG, Fiji and Cooks, none of which are experiencing issues with the release of NRL players (which they are all reliant upon).

[Sports Prophet]

59 minutes ago, Hopie said:

What I have a problem with is:

"Hey mate, if we had won we would expect you to play for our club next week but as we now deem you are "busted" after our semi final defeat we don't think it is reasonable you play another game in 3 weeks for your country."

Then that is your problem and one which I accept, you may share with other people supporting our game.

However according to the IRL, SL and NRL, it is a perfectly acceptable situation and one which would be simulated across any sport where players are not centrally contracted by the national body.

[Hopie]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I am saying the press release is not credible because I don’t believe the French have a clue what they are talking about. I don’t think they have spoken to any Lebanese players, I don’t think they have spoken to any NRL clubs.

Most of all, I don’t believe one single source who will do anything they can to avoid scrutiny because that source has shown repeatedly how awful they are at organising international events, when this event was confirmed at the drop of a hat, financed by “privates” related to the touring party.

Lastly, there is ample evidence which goes against any person’s assertion that the NRL/clubs are acting untoward. We have England v Samoa and two tri-series including Aus, NZ, Tonga, PNG, Fiji and Cooks, none of which are experiencing issues with the release of NRL players (which they are all reliant upon).

You really need to work on your material if you want to be taken seriously.

"We can tell the NRL aren't making internationals more difficult because there is a 2 match series in England, which is the shortest anyone can remember, and there are tri series featuring Australia that are half the length of the Tri nations that used to be held..."

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Then that is your problem and one which I accept, you may share with other people supporting our game.

However according to the IRL, SL and NRL, it is a perfectly acceptable situation and one which would be simulated across any sport where players are not centrally contracted by the national body.

"You see they aren't undermining the international game, just ensuring that it keeps its rightful place, below Origin and the NRL..."

[StandOffHalf]

The saddest thing is that a whole generation of NRL players are being taught to place international football below the demands of NRL and Origin.

These things seep down; internationalists will of course persevere, but against a mounting tide.

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, Hopie said:

You really need to work on your material if you want to be taken seriously.

"We can tell the NRL aren't making internationals more difficult because there is a 2 match series in England, which is the shortest anyone can remember, and there are tri series featuring Australia that are half the length of the Tri nations that used to be held..."

Whose comments are those which you are using quotations for?
 

The NRL will be responsible for organising 8 men’s test matches this summer. That’s ok in my book. How many would it take before you are satisfied?

1 hour ago, Hopie said:

 

"You see they aren't undermining the international game, just ensuring that it keeps its rightful place, below Origin and the NRL..."

Again, I don’t know who said what you put in quotations, but I see nothing wrong with the NRL separating Origin as mid year and international to end of season to give each their own window. NRL can prioritise Origin all they like. It’s their prerogative and in their best interest.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, StandOffHalf said:

The saddest thing is that a whole generation of NRL players are being taught to place international football below the demands of NRL and Origin.

These things seep down; internationalists will of course persevere, but against a mounting tide.

This is the narrative that has been pushed for quite some time. The NRL has done its upmost to keep the genie in the bottle when it comes to international Rugby League.

[StandOffHalf]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

This is the narrative that has been pushed for quite some time. The NRL has done its upmost to keep the genie in the bottle when it comes to international Rugby League.

Yes, I really should have said ''have been'' rather than ''are being''.

[RP London]

3 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Whose comments are those which you are using quotations for?
 

The NRL will be responsible for organising 8 men’s test matches this summer. That’s ok in my book. How many would it take before you are satisfied?

Again, I don’t know who said what you put in quotations, but I see nothing wrong with the NRL separating Origin as mid year and international to end of season to give each their own window. NRL can prioritise Origin all they like. It’s their prerogative and in their best interest.

Let's have origin and teams can rest players around it from club matches.. but don't you dare organise an international game becuase there is no way we are organising a rest week and those players cannot be rested by their clubs.. proven by the absolute nightmare that was the denver test.. 

Proof is in the pudding, when games are organised the NRL and clubs dont like (for whatever reason)will do whatever they like and if it doesn't suit them (world cup, and dont give me "COVID" plenty of international sports were back on with no issues whatsoever and weve been through this before) they will do whatever it takes spurious or not, to destroy it.. that mid season England v nz match should be nailed into the calendar by now but thanks to the utter palaver caused by the NRL around that Denver test it doesn't... its stupid. 

[Sports Prophet]

6 hours ago, RP London said:

Let's have origin and teams can rest players around it from club matches.. but don't you dare organise an international game becuase there is no way we are organising a rest week and those players cannot be rested by their clubs.. proven by the absolute nightmare that was the denver test.. 

Proof is in the pudding, when games are organised the NRL and clubs dont like (for whatever reason)will do whatever they like and if it doesn't suit them (world cup, and dont give me "COVID" plenty of international sports were back on with no issues whatsoever and weve been through this before) they will do whatever it takes spurious or not, to destroy it.. that mid season England v nz match should be nailed into the calendar by now but thanks to the utter palaver caused by the NRL around that Denver test it doesn't... its stupid. 

Your accusations don’t stack up. I will give you Covid as an excuse thank you very much, because guess what, the following year, the WC tournament went ahead without a single argument. 

Whatever you think, I guarantee, no NRL clubs rest players so they can go and play Origin. To the contrary, more often than not, players are selected to play within 2-4 days of an Origin match.

 

[RP London]

15 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Your accusations don’t stack up. I will give you Covid as an excuse thank you very much, because guess what, the following year, the WC tournament went ahead without a single argument. 

Whatever you think, I guarantee, no NRL clubs rest players so they can go and play Origin. To the contrary, more often than not, players are selected to play within 2-4 days of an Origin match.

 

Covid was a cover, it was not an excuse that held water and was proven at the time to be utter scaremongering balls. it didn't suit so the NRL decided it wasn't going to happen and when there were decenting voices pressure was applied.. it cost the game here a huge amount of money and lost potential.. just becuase you don't like the argument doesn't make it less true.. 

The last paragraph is patently untrue and is so utterly blinkered it is ridiculous and shows exactly why there is no debating this with you... every year it happens. It just shows it'll be like playing chess with a pigeon so I'm out. 

The NRL pay lipservice to the international game, that is fine that is, as you say, their prerogative.. but let's not see differently from how it is and make them some great, virtuous, blameless and glorious institution..

Edited September 20 by RP London

[Sports Prophet]

6 minutes ago, RP London said:

Covid was a cover, it was not an excuse that held water and was proven at the time to be utter scaremongering balls. it didn't suit so the NRL decided it wasn't going to happen and when there were decenting voices pressure was applied.. it cost the game here a huge amount of money and lost potential.. just becuase you don't like the argument doesn't make it less true.. 

The last paragraph is patently untrue and is so utterly blinkered it is ridiculous and shows exactly why there is no debating this with you... every year it happens. It just shows it'll be like playing chess with a pigeon so I'm out. 

The NRL pay lipservice to the international game, that is fine that is, as you say, their prerogative.. but let's not see differently from how it is and make them some great, virtuous, blameless and glorious institution..

Give me one example where NRL clubs rest players so they are fit for Origin. It never happens so my comment is not “patently untrue” but factual until proven otherwise. I welcome your examples to the contrary.

COVID was not a cover. The tournament took place the following year. If the NRL didn’t want to play, then they would have just said “sorry, not coming”, but instead they did. 

What the NRL players experienced through COVID was unique. They started back earlier than any pro sports comp in the world. The players participated under strict lockdown restrictions for 20+ weeks, unparalleled by any other pro sport globally, then when the WC organisers couldn’t replicate the same COVID safe restrictions applied to the general public in all of NSW, VIC and QLD at the same time, sure, questions get asked.

People throw this comment of “well the Wallabies and Socceroos managed to play overseas” comments around. This argument holds no water either. The NRL had held its players under strict isolation conditions for a far longer time than any rugby or soccer player experienced. In the best interest of the players physical and mental health was concerned, the NRL were not willing to put the players through a 2021 WC.

A year later, without those physical and mental threats present, guess what, the Aussies turned up, as did all the other NRL reliant nations, without any argument.

[gingerjon]

13 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

They started back earlier than any pro sports comp in the world.

NRL returned 28 May.

The Bundesliga returned 16 May.

 

[RP London]

3 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Give me one example where NRL clubs rest players so they are fit for Origin. It never happens so my comment is not “patently untrue” but factual until proven otherwise. I welcome your examples to the contrary.

COVID was not a cover. The tournament took place the following year. If the NRL didn’t want to play, then they would have just said “sorry, not coming”, but instead they did. 

What the NRL players experienced through COVID was unique. They started back earlier than any pro sports comp in the world. The players participated under strict lockdown restrictions for 20+ weeks, unparalleled by any other pro sport globally, then when the WC organisers couldn’t replicate the same COVID safe restrictions applied to the general public in all of NSW, VIC and QLD at the same time, sure, questions get asked.

People throw this comment of “well the Wallabies and Socceroos managed to play overseas” comments around. This argument holds no water either. The NRL had held its players under strict isolation conditions for a far longer time than any rugby or soccer player experienced. In the best interest of the players physical and mental health was concerned, the NRL were not willing to put the players through a 2021 WC.

A year later, without those physical and mental threats present, guess what, the Aussies turned up, as did all the other NRL reliant nations, without any argument.

I was going to leave this but this is an utter crock..

I simply googled "players rested after state of origin" and the first article is Ivan Cleary resting 4 players (I know this is after but don't know why you added the "before" but becuase no one had said "before" before you, it doesn't matter to the point whether they rest before or after)

  https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2024-penrith-panthers-press-conference-ivan-cleary-origin-players-sidelined-loss-to-the-cowboys-state-of-origin-news-videos-results/news-story/ac0077a51d4af44efc83af2bc5e40d1d

"The Panthers were without Jarome Luai, Brian To’o, Liam Martin and Dylan Edwards after they were rested following Origin Game II"

 

I suggest you learn to research a little.. that whole post is full of holes.. 

Edited September 20 by RP London

[Sports Prophet]

On 20/09/2024 at 23:14, RP London said:

I was going to leave this but this is an utter crock..

I simply googled "players rested after state of origin" and the first article is Ivan Cleary resting 4 players (I know this is after but don't know why you added the "before" but becuase no one had said "before" before you, it doesn't matter to the point whether they rest before or after)

  https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2024-penrith-panthers-press-conference-ivan-cleary-origin-players-sidelined-loss-to-the-cowboys-state-of-origin-news-videos-results/news-story/ac0077a51d4af44efc83af2bc5e40d1d

"The Panthers were without Jarome Luai, Brian To’o, Liam Martin and Dylan Edwards after they were rested following Origin Game II"

 

I suggest you learn to research a little.. that whole post is full of holes.. 

RP London mentioned club players are rested all around Origin. I simply clarified that none are rested before Origin. Players have been rested after Origin (most commonly by table topping teams after game III) for years. That is specifically why I clarified.

So again, there are no holes, everything I’ve said is accurate, despite us drawing seperate conclusions.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

56 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

RP London mentioned club players are rested all around Origin. I simply clarified that none are rested before Origin.

Literally everyone selected is rested the weekend before Origin - they go in to camp and are unavailable for their club team.

[Sports Prophet]

6 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Literally everyone selected is rested the weekend before Origin - they go in to camp and are unavailable for their club team.

They are in camp, that is not rested.

[Sports Prophet]

Rather than this sliding further into a “you said”, “my definition”, “my definition” discussion, we have ultimately arrived at the same destination we all usually do on the subject of representative football…

”NRL clearly don’t care about International RL” - meanwhile the NRL are organising eight men’s test matches featuring six of the top 10 ranked teams and all available Pacific nations in the top 10.

”NRL only care about test rugby which they organise” - meanwhile, Samoa will proceed with a tour they had no interest in honouring predominantly with the influence of the NRL.

”NRL care about Origin more than International RL” - yes they do and considering the financial value and media coverage it receives, why wouldn’t they?

And now we have the additional piece:

”NRL (clubs) are responsible for a cancelled France V Lebanon test series” - one vague press release by a governing body proven to be terrible at organising international football is the only evidence supporting this paper thin theory, while all the evidence above should lead someone with a fair mindset to think there is probably a lot more to it than what the French are letting on.

The paranoia is real.

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Rather than this sliding further into a “you said”, “my definition”, “my definition” discussion, we have ultimately arrived at the same destination we all usually do on the subject of representative football…

”NRL clearly don’t care about International RL” - meanwhile the NRL are organising eight men’s test matches featuring six of the top 10 ranked teams and all available Pacific nations in the top 10.

”NRL only care about test rugby which they organise” - meanwhile, Samoa will proceed with a tour they had no interest in honouring predominantly with the influence of the NRL.

”NRL care about Origin more than International RL” - yes they do and considering the financial value and media coverage it receives, why wouldn’t they?

And now we have the additional piece:

”NRL (clubs) are responsible for a cancelled France V Lebanon test series” - one vague press release by a governing body proven to be terrible at organising international football is the only evidence supporting this paper thin theory, while all the evidence above should lead someone with a fair mindset to think there is probably a lot more to it than what the French are letting on.

The paranoia is real.

Whilst i get the point you are making, this is an extremely one-eyed viewpoint. I mean just the point that the NRL is organising 8 test matches is wrong on many levels.

[Sports Prophet]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Whilst i get the point you are making, this is an extremely one-eyed viewpoint. I mean just the point that the NRL is organising 8 test matches is wrong on many levels.

On what levels is the eight test matches wrong Dave?

By saying “just the point that…” you are insinuating there is more which is wrong in my post. Which parts?

Edited September 22 by Sports Prophet

[Sports Prophet]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Whilst i get the point you are making, this is an extremely one-eyed viewpoint. I mean just the point that the NRL is organising 8 test matches is wrong on many levels.

It is undeniably a post in the pro-NRL camp, but I wouldn’t accuse  it as one eyed, especially when so much of the anti-NRL rhetoric which gets posted on here all the time gets a free pass from any such “one eyed” accusations.

[Dave T]

11 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

It is undeniably a post in the pro-NRL camp, but I wouldn’t accuse  it as one eyed, especially when so much of the anti-NRL rhetoric which gets posted on here all the time gets a free pass from any such “one eyed” accusations.

I think you do a good job challenging that view

I disagree with many views presented here, I don't always care enough to defend the nrl about unfair criticism tbh.

[Hopie]

4 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Rather than this sliding further into a “you said”, “my definition”, “my definition” discussion, we have ultimately arrived at the same destination we all usually do on the subject of representative football…

”NRL clearly don’t care about International RL” - meanwhile the NRL are organising eight men’s test matches featuring six of the top 10 ranked teams and all available Pacific nations in the top 10.

”NRL only care about test rugby which they organise” - meanwhile, Samoa will proceed with a tour they had no interest in honouring predominantly with the influence of the NRL.

”NRL care about Origin more than International RL” - yes they do and considering the financial value and media coverage it receives, why wouldn’t they?

And now we have the additional piece:

”NRL (clubs) are responsible for a cancelled France V Lebanon test series” - one vague press release by a governing body proven to be terrible at organising international football is the only evidence supporting this paper thin theory, while all the evidence above should lead someone with a fair mindset to think there is probably a lot more to it than what the French are letting on.

The paranoia is real.

Just because you keep posting the same thing doesn't make it true. Your main point to show that the NRL doesn't hamper the international game is that there still is an international game, and we all should be super grateful for the crumbs we are getting. That the number of fixtures is lower than in previous years, that they are announced at shorter notice, that the attendances are poor etc etc, is all just a coincidence right? Or somebody else's fault, who will you pick to blame in your next post? 

[Damien]

3 hours ago, Hopie said:

Just because you keep posting the same thing doesn't make it true. Your main point to show that the NRL doesn't hamper the international game is that there still is an international game, and we all should be super grateful for the crumbs we are getting. That the number of fixtures is lower than in previous years, that they are announced at shorter notice, that the attendances are poor etc etc, is all just a coincidence right? Or somebody else's fault, who will you pick to blame in your next post? 

This is the trouble isn't it? It's like completely whitewashing the past and ignoring that we've actually had all of this much better than the crumbs we should be grateful for now.