England vs Samoa Series

[AB90]

8 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

No way, would be around 26-12. Wouldn’t at all rule a France win either. France have some top quality players Garcia, Mourge, Romano, Fages, Bousquet, Da Costa, Seguier, Rougé and others. Do you even know a single French player ?

And not one of those French players would make this Samoan starting 13.

I get that you are passionate about French & European rugby league but you’re seriously over estimating the French team suggesting  the French team would have a chance against this Samoan team. The French team get convincingly beat by the England Knights.

If you put the French national team in SL they would be in a relegation battle with London, Hull FC, CAS etc.

 

[NRLandSL]

5 minutes ago, Mojo said:

The international game in terms of being competitive is at an all time high. If the rules were changed England wouldn't have an opponent right now. Tonga wouldn't be one of the big nations. The fact that Tonga and Samoa are so good it's all the Pacific Island fans in nz are glued to rugby league instead of rugby union which why the games taking a bit of a hit in nz. There's way more positive then negatives with the new eligibility rule.

I am not completely against heritage players, they are great and strengthen all 2nd tier national teams. Though nations should be allowed to be completely reliant on heritage players. Wales, Fiji and PNG all use heritage players but a majority of there squad are domestic. There has to be restrictions.

They should implement a rule in which 7 or so of the match day 17 must be born in the country they play for, and perhaps 4-5 must be raised and played junior rugby league in the country.

As for players committing to nations it would not negatively effect any national team. There just needs to be solidity on who plays for which nations. Players should not be allowed to yo-yo between nations like IRL is some sort of muck around end of year invitational tournament. 

[NRLandSL]

10 minutes ago, Mojo said:

Some of those middles can do very well in the SL and since they're playing against SL middles I think it could be an even battle. Pahulu is also another solid middle from the titans

Sorry but those guys stand little to no chance against Thompson, Burgess, Radley, Knowles, Lees and McMeeken.

[Archie Gordon]

Good squad, enough to work with to promote a good series anyway. One talisman out of two there, at least. 

Let's hope Crichton's wedding isn't too wild.

[NRLandSL]

25 minutes ago, AB90 said:

And not one of those French players would make this Samoan starting 13.

I get that you are passionate about French & European rugby league but you’re seriously over estimating the French team suggesting  the French team would have a chance against this Samoan team. The French team get convincingly beat by the England Knights.

If you put the French national team in SL they would be in a relegation battle with London, Hull FC, CAS etc.

 

Garcia is far better than Asiata

Romano is better than Leutele

Fages is still better than Talagi at 6

I’d definitely put Bousquet above Molo

Da Costa is far better than Chan Kum tong

Mourgue would also likely get into to the team pushing RTS out on the wing for Skelton. Especially considering they desperately need a goal kicker.

And there’s other guys definitely capeable of starting in this team. I think you’re seriously overestimating the Samoan and underestimating the French team. This French is a full 17 of regular SL players, including a lot of very quality players. “the French get convincingly beat by the England knights”.  Funny joke.

French team would be around Leeds and Huddersfield in SL, competing for top 6.

Edited October 9 by NRLandSL

[AB90]

10 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

Garcia is far better than Asiata

Romano is much better than Leutele

Fages is still better than Talagi at 6

I’d definitely put Bousquet above Molo

Da Costa is far better than Chan Kum tong

Mourgue would also likely get into to the team pushing RTS out on the wing for Skelton. Especially considering they desperately need a goal kicker.

And there’s other guys definitely capeable of starting in this team. I think you’re seriously overestimating the Samoan and underestimating the French team. This French is a full 17 of regular SL players, including a lot of very quality players. “the French get convincingly beat by the England knights”.  Funny joke.

French team would be around Leeds and Huddersfield in SL, competing for top 6.

At least try and hide your bias haha

Roger Tuivasa Sheck would have to make way for Arthur Mourge is one of the most wild statements I have ever heard. This is the same Arthur Mourge that has to make way at Catalans for a 35 year old, out of retirement, part time player, full time broadcaster, Sam Tomkins. 

The Catalans dragons were ‘around Leeds and Huddersfield in SL, competing for top 6’ in 2024 and they have all the best French players you named above plus Tom Johnstone, Mike McMeekan, Tom Davis, Jordan Abdull, Chris Satae, Tariq Sims, Sam Tomkins etc. I.e a much better team than the French national team.

It wasn’t meant to be a joke - the England Knights did beat France convincingly the one time they played them in 2022.

 

[Dave T]

26 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

Garcia is far better than Asiata

Romano is much better than Leutele

Fages is still better than Talagi at 6

I’d definitely put Bousquet above Molo

Da Costa is far better than Chan Kum tong

And there’s other guys definitely capeable of starting in this team. I think you’re seriously overestimating the Samoan and underestimating the French team. This French is a full 17 of regular SL players, including a lot of very quality players. “the French get convincingly beat by the England knights”.  Funny joke.

French team would be around Leeds and Huddersfield in SL, competing for top 6.

I think you are overestimating the quality of the France team quite substantially.

[Hopie]

France are a championship level team, if I thought they could beat Samoa, I wouldn't buy tickets for England v Samoa.

[NRLandSL]

17 minutes ago, AB90 said:

At least try and hide your bias haha

Roger Tuivasa Sheck would have to make way for Arthur Mourge is one of the most wild statements I have ever heard. This is the same Arthur Mourge that has to make way at Catalans for a 35 year old, out of retirement, part time player, full time broadcaster, Sam Tomkins. 

The Catalans dragons were ‘around Leeds and Huddersfield in SL, competing for top 6’ in 2024 and they have all the best French players you named above plus Tom Johnstone, Mike McMeekan, Tom Davis, Jordan Abdull, Chris Satae, Tariq Sims, Sam Tomkins etc. I.e a much better team than the French national team.

It wasn’t meant to be a joke - the England Knights did beat France convincingly the one time they played them in 2022.

 

Never said RTS would have to make way for Mourgue. RTS is naturally a Winger/Centre and has been playing there this season, and Mourgue is better than Skelton. Naturally RTS goes on the wing and Mourgue takes the fullback spot, also becoming there only goal kicker.

Not sure how Mourge “made way” for Sam Tomkins. He played halfback for four games when Tomkins played fullback, and also swapped to halves with Rougé at fullback multiple times. Has nothing to do with Mourgue not performing, Mourge is just versatile and can fill many roles but Tomkins is primarily a fullback.

Catalans were 10 points ahead of Huddersfield in an underperforming season. Get rid of those guys and the french players of Catalans would still probably finish around huddersfield. Maybe “competing for the top six” was a bit of stretch from me but they would be around 8-9 IMO. The only guys that you mentioned that are very important to Catalans are McMeeken, Johnstone and maybe Sims and Davis, the rest of the them could be replaced by French boys without making Catalans worse.

France did not play against the England knights in 2022, they have only ever played against them once in 2011. In 2022 England and France did play in the World Cup, in which France lost by 24 points or 4 tries. Which wouldn’t be class as convincingly, so I doubt the England knights will be able to beat France convincingly.

England knights only game in recent times was against Scotland as a World Cup warm up which was won 28-4.

[binosh]

1 hour ago, NRLandSL said:

Garcia is far better than Asiata

Romano is better than Leutele

Fages is still better than Talagi at 6

I’d definitely put Bousquet above Molo

Da Costa is far better than Chan Kum tong

Mourgue would also likely get into to the team pushing RTS out on the wing for Skelton. Especially considering they desperately need a goal kicker.

And there’s other guys definitely capeable of starting in this team. I think you’re seriously overestimating the Samoan and underestimating the French team. This French is a full 17 of regular SL players, including a lot of very quality players. “the French get convincingly beat by the England knights”.  Funny joke.

French team would be around Leeds and Huddersfield in SL, competing for top 6.

If the question is “who’s speaks better French?” Then you are absolutely correct.

[NRLandSL]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I think you are overestimating the quality of the France team quite substantially.

I disagree, Garcia is no doubt one of the top locks in SL. Romano has had a great year and proved himself as a quality SL centre. Considering Talagi has never played a first grade game at 5/8, It is very fair to put Fages over him. Bousquet has had a much better season than Molo and Da Costa is just a far better player than Chan Kum Tong. I don’t think I’ve made any substantial claims. 

I think the French side has been really poor for quite some time. But the talent is there, we see each week it in SL. Also there is some really good French youngsters coming through right now. I have no doubt France will prove themselves as a quality national team in the near future.

[NRLandSL]

1 hour ago, Hopie said:

France are a championship level team, if I thought they could beat Samoa, I wouldn't buy tickets for England v Samoa.

A championship Level team with a 17 of decent-above average SL players. Your logic doesn’t quite make sense. 

Put any championship side agaisnt England and they lose by over 100.

[AB90]

16 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

Never said RTS would have to make way for Mourgue. RTS is naturally a Winger/Centre and has been playing there this season, and Mourgue is better than Skelton. Naturally RTS goes on the wing and Mourgue takes the fullback spot, also becoming there only goal kicker.

Not sure how Mourge “made way” for Sam Tomkins. He played halfback for four games when Tomkins played fullback, and also swapped to halves with Rougé at fullback multiple times. Has nothing to do with Mourgue not performing, Mourge is just versatile and can fill many roles but Tomkins is primarily a fullback.

Catalans were 10 points ahead of Huddersfield in an underperforming season. Get rid of those guys and the french players of Catalans would still probably finish around huddersfield. Maybe “competing for the top six” was a bit of stretch from me but they would be around 8-9 IMO. The only guys that you mentioned that are very important to Catalans are McMeeken, Johnstone and maybe Sims and Davis, the rest of the them could be replaced by French boys without making Catalans worse.

France did not play against the England knights in 2022, they have only ever played against them once in 2011. In 2022 England and France did play in the World Cup, in which France lost by 24 points or 4 tries. Which wouldn’t be class as convincingly, so I doubt the England knights will be able to beat France convincingly.

England knights only game in recent times was against Scotland as a World Cup warm up which was won 28-4.

You’re right, in 2022 England Knights played France ‘B’ as a warm up. Not the French national team. My bad!

It’s your opinion so fair enough but I just think your analysis is very off on these French players.

In 2022, when Samoa beat France 62-4, Samoa had the likes of Ligi Sau, Danny Levi, Anthony Milford, Tim Lafai in the starting lineup (not exactly worldbeaters). Yeah, this Samoan team in 2024 doesn’t have the top end talent the 2022 team had buts it’s not miles off and you could argue it’s a deeper roster with far more depth.

I don’t think France has really improved since 2022 either so I couldn’t see anything but a 50 plus flogging.

[NRLandSL]

11 minutes ago, AB90 said:

You’re right, in 2022 England Knights played France ‘B’ as a warm up. Not the French national team. My bad!

It’s your opinion so fair enough but I just think your analysis is very off on these French players.

In 2022, when Samoa beat France 62-4, Samoa had the likes of Ligi Sau, Danny Levi, Anthony Milford, Tim Lafai in the starting lineup (not exactly worldbeaters). Yeah, this Samoan team in 2024 doesn’t have the top end talent the 2022 team had buts it’s not miles off and you could argue it’s a deeper roster with far more depth.

I don’t think France has really improved since 2022 either so I couldn’t see anything but a 50 plus flogging.

Each to their own. I get your point of view, France have done nothing to prove themselves in the last few years and Catalans haven’t had the greatest year either. But I firmly believe that a lot of Frances players have improved a lot over the last few years combined with some exciting youth. The present and near future of France is exciting and I have no doubt they will prove themselves in the near future. 

France’s performance against Samoa at the World Cup was an exceptionally poor performance, but I don’t think it was a correct representation of the gap between the two sides. France’s World Cup was exceptionally poor as a whole. Having no Bousquet and Fages was very damaging.

 

Edited October 9 by NRLandSL

[JM2010]

Although I’m looking forward to watching the England vs Samoa games and will be attending Headingley for the 2nd test I wish it would all be done a bit better. 
The three non WC years need to be a bit more structured. 
England could go and play in the Pacific Cup in the first and third years. The middle year could be a 6N in the NH with the top 4 SH sides plus England and a NH qualifier (France or Wales probably). 
Mid season is still up for debate but at least the end of season would see the top nations all playing each other with an opportunity for Wales, France etc to earn the chance to play against them in at least one year outside of a WC. 

[StandOffHalf]

3 hours ago, AB90 said:

And not one of those French players would make this Samoan starting 13.

I get that you are passionate about French & European rugby league but you’re seriously over estimating the French team suggesting  the French team would have a chance against this Samoan team. The French team get convincingly beat by the England Knights.

If you put the French national team in SL they would be in a relegation battle with London, Hull FC, CAS etc.

 

Garcia and Bousquet would.

[StandOffHalf]

1 hour ago, NRLandSL said:

I disagree, Garcia is no doubt one of the top locks in SL. Romano has had a great year and proved himself as a quality SL centre. Considering Talagi has never played a first grade game at 5/8, It is very fair to put Fages over him. Bousquet has had a much better season than Molo and Da Costa is just a far better player than Chan Kum Tong. I don’t think I’ve made any substantial claims. 

I think the French side has been really poor for quite some time. But the talent is there, we see each week it in SL. Also there is some really good French youngsters coming through right now. I have no doubt France will prove themselves as a quality national team in the near future.

Fair comment. I might disagree on Romano, but it's a close pick 'em.

[Bongo1]

1 hour ago, JM2010 said:

Although I’m looking forward to watching the England vs Samoa games and will be attending Headingley for the 2nd test I wish it would all be done a bit better. 
The three non WC years need to be a bit more structured. 
England could go and play in the Pacific Cup in the first and third years. The middle year could be a 6N in the NH with the top 4 SH sides plus England and a NH qualifier (France or Wales probably). 
Mid season is still up for debate but at least the end of season would see the top nations all playing each other with an opportunity for Wales, France etc to earn the chance to play against them in at least one year outside of a WC. 

Mid season we could play PNG if more kumuls come to super league, what number are we at now with PNG players playing in super league?

[StandOffHalf]

A reasonably strong Samoan squad. Really disappointing though that Sua Fa'alogo isn't there. I was hyped to see his magic.

I'm surprised that Tyrone May isn't there. He can play in the halves and lock and would have added an extra key for unlocking defences.

Leutele is a nice inclusion for left centre. He is a gun in the SL.

Where they are lacking is in the front row. Aside from Terrell May they look a bit small. I think England will fancy their chances of rolling them. Leniu is a big miss. He would have added punch off the bench.

The Samoan selectors mustn't really be aware of Super League. Sauaso Sue should be locked in alongside Terrell May as a starting prop. He's gone great for KR and would give them a steeliness. Patrick Mago is the ultimate impact sub for Wigan with his leg-drive and offloads. A 15-minute stint from him could create mayhem. The third SL prop that should be there in my view is Herman Ese'ese. Playing in basement-dwellers Hull FC getting thrashed most weeks he carried hard and made a dent every time. He would have added to Samoa's forward punch when coming onto the field.

[StandOffHalf]

I am excited by the inclusion of Lazarus Vaalepu though. 

[NRLandSL]

56 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Fair comment. I might disagree on Romano, but it's a close pick 'em.

I rate Romano to be honest. Been good this year in an under-performing Catalans side. Very hardworking player, proved he is a great ball carrier this year and has no real weaknesses in his game. Very underrated player in my opinion. If he was playing Wigan he would be highly rated.

As for Leutele he has had a great season but he is 34 now and I would pick Romano over him.

[StandOffHalf]

9 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

I rate Romano to be honest. Been good this year in an under-performing Catalans side. Very hardworking player, proved he is a great ball carrier this year and has no real weaknesses in his game. Very underrated player in my opinion. If he was playing Wigan he would be highly rated.

As for Leutele he has had a great season but he is 34 now and I would pick Romano over him.

Oh no, I rate Romano massively as well. I knew that when he went down for France before the England test that that was their chances pretty much done. I think he is a really solid player - and he's only going to get better over the next few years.

If I was picking a combined team today I probably would go for Leutele, but it is close.

[Mojo]

56 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

A reasonably strong Samoan squad. Really disappointing though that Sua Fa'alogo isn't there. I was hyped to see his magic.

I'm surprised that Tyrone May isn't there. He can play in the halves and lock and would have added an extra key for unlocking defences.

Leutele is a nice inclusion for left centre. He is a gun in the SL.

Where they are lacking is in the front row. Aside from Terrell May they look a bit small. I think England will fancy their chances of rolling them. Leniu is a big miss. He would have added punch off the bench.

The Samoan selectors mustn't really be aware of Super League. Sauaso Sue should be locked in alongside Terrell May as a starting prop. He's gone great for KR and would give them a steeliness. Patrick Mago is the ultimate impact sub for Wigan with his leg-drive and offloads. A 15-minute stint from him could create mayhem. The third SL prop that should be there in my view is Herman Ese'ese. Playing in basement-dwellers Hull FC getting thrashed most weeks he carried hard and made a dent every time. He would have added to Samoa's forward punch when coming onto the field.

You say samoa's front row lacks power but then you add in Sauaso Sue lol I was a big fan of Sue but he's way past his prime now. Mago is solid, I've seen highlights of Eseese in the SL and he looks like a bully there but I think you guys are under estimating the samoa front rows. Molo ain't a bad prop he runs hard if not better then Sue. Pahulu is a young up and coming prop from the Titans and he handled the nrl we'll this year. Va'alepu is another big body in the front row. The samoan front row definitely won't get bullied but it's the combinations that will let the samoan down because 90% of this team haven't played together. I still think England will win the series comfortably but I'm very excited to see the young bucks in the samoan team have a go

[Mojo]

3 hours ago, NRLandSL said:

I disagree, Garcia is no doubt one of the top locks in SL. Romano has had a great year and proved himself as a quality SL centre. Considering Talagi has never played a first grade game at 5/8, It is very fair to put Fages over him. Bousquet has had a much better season than Molo and Da Costa is just a far better player than Chan Kum Tong. I don’t think I’ve made any substantial claims. 

I think the French side has been really poor for quite some time. But the talent is there, we see each week it in SL. Also there is some really good French youngsters coming through right now. I have no doubt France will prove themselves as a quality national team in the near future.

Talagi played 2 games at 5/8 this year for the eels, and I hope Samoa plays him in the position on tour next to Luai.

[StandOffHalf]

14 minutes ago, Mojo said:

You say samoa's front row lacks power but then you add in Sauaso Sue lol I was a big fan of Sue but he's way past his prime now. Mago is solid, I've seen highlights of Eseese in the SL and he looks like a bully there but I think you guys are under estimating the samoa front rows. Molo ain't a bad prop he runs hard if not better then Sue. Pahulu is a young up and coming prop from the Titans and he handled the nrl we'll this year. Va'alepu is another big body in the front row. The samoan front row definitely won't get bullied but it's the combinations that will let the samoan down because 90% of this team haven't played together. I still think England will win the series comfortably but I'm very excited to see the young bucks in the samoan team have a go

Sue has become one of the leaders of KR's forward pack. They played at Wembley last year and have charged to a Grand Final in 2024. He is 32. He probably should have been in the Super League Dream Team for 2024, ahead of Matty Lees. Sue is a forward leader and a veteran, known and respected by his peers in the England shirts. He should be starting for them. He is certainly a higher-level player than Molo.

Vaalepu will be good off the bench. Pahulu is another young player of potential.

Sue and May would have been my starting props, with a rotation of Mago and Vaalepu/Ese'ese.

Edited October 9 by StandOffHalf