NRL Salary Cap Exemption for Rival Code Signings

[unapologetic pedant]

8 hours ago, AB90 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t there far more interest in Welsh rugby league during the 80’s & 90’s when English clubs were signing Welsh RU players?

You appear to be saying that RL interest in Wales arose from the practice of English clubs signing Welsh RU players. It logically follows that said interest evaporates when English clubs stop signing Welsh RU players. Which rather amplifies my point that signing RU players "is not a recipe for long term prosperity".

9 hours ago, AB90 said:

So you think the NRL will be ‘dependent on players from another sport for relevance and prestige’ by signing a couple of Wallabies & All Blacks plus some Super Rugby level player. Respectfully speaking but that an outrages statement!

Consider it in reverse - do you think the signings of Sailor, Rogers, Tuqiri, proved to be sound investments in the future of Australian RU?

9 hours ago, AB90 said:

Do you think that if the Warriors signed a current, high profile All Blacks player that wouldn’t potentially increase the wider public’s interest?

Briefly and superficially. Moreover, invites the NZ media to focus on RU players. Thus drawing kudos and sponsorship dollars away from the more deserving products of RL junior systems. Warriors players should be big stars in NZ because they play for the Warriors, not because they previously played for the All Blacks.

[Midlands hobo]

On 13/11/2023 at 09:31, Keith989 said:

I think it's a great idea and fair play to the NRL who are doing a lot of things right at the minute.

The NRL signing an Irish rugby union international would certainly put the sport in the spotlight here, I can only imagine the articles and the amount of discussion on forums it would create. 

Imagine if they got a springbok

[The Rocket]

On 13/11/2023 at 01:54, Midlands hobo said:

RU in aus is on its ###### and this could be seen as an attempt by RL to finish it off.

Worth repeating this, because this is exactly what this is all about, not promoting Rugby League, not expanding the player pool. After their negotiations with private equity collapsed - the firm involved withdrew their offer - the aru have been forced to take out a $60m dollar loan to survive, with profits from the up-coming British and Lions tour and hosting the union world cup being used to repay the loan, money I might add that was going to be used to future proof the code.

Now the NRL know that the aru being a top-heavy organisation, failure by the wallabies in these up-coming two events could mean failure for the code as a whole, due to its` precarious financial position. Hence, and I suggest being done in cahoots with multi-billionaire Roosters supremo Nick Politis, this sudden interest in wallaby for dinner.

 Yes, so despite headlines being about attracting the best sports people from other codes, this is really aimed squarely at the midships of an already listing Australian rugby union.

[Copa]

5 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

You appear to be saying that RL interest in Wales arose from the practice of English clubs signing Welsh RU players. It logically follows that said interest evaporates when English clubs stop signing Welsh RU players. Which rather amplifies my point that signing RU players "is not a recipe for long term prosperity".

Consider it in reverse - do you think the signings of Sailor, Rogers, Tuqiri, proved to be sound investments in the future of Australian RU?

Briefly and superficially. Moreover, invites the NZ media to focus on RU players. Thus drawing kudos and sponsorship dollars away from the more deserving products of RL junior systems. Warriors players should be big stars in NZ because they play for the Warriors, not because they previously played for the All Blacks.

I doubt the nrl would use any new salary cap exemptions on a large scale. V’landys seems so vindictive he’s probably doing it for psychological reasons to rattle the ARU.

I suspect he also has things up his sleeve to annoy them during a union lions tour and union World Cup.

The current ARU boasts and belittles rugby league when chasing nrl players. If you are a small sport in Australia and you go for V’landys you better not miss.

[Exiled Wiganer]

Why would any established Vichy earning decent money play our game? Unless they have played as juniors, and have simply wandered off the path. 

It’s far harder, they would have to get far far fitter, and their shortcomings would be ruthlessly exposed. They are talked up as if they are professional sportsmen by a doltish press. 

[The Rocket]

43 minutes ago, Copa said:

I doubt the nrl would use any new salary cap exemptions on a large scale. V’landys seems so vindictive he’s probably doing it for psychological reasons to rattle the ARU.

I suspect he also has things up his sleeve to annoy them during a union lions tour and union World Cup.

The current ARU boasts and belittles rugby league when chasing nrl players. If you are a small sport in Australia and you go for V’landys you better not miss.

It`s a funny old world, there is something of the gangster in V`landys, fitting that his first job in the racing industry was when he was chosen as a largely unknown to clean up Harold Park Raceway (something he did very successfully), a track brought to its` knees through race fixing and organised crime, the main individual involved being famous/infamous SP bookie and organised crime figure George Freeman. Dearly departed George was my cousin.

And you talk about not missing, when Freeman was shot in the head and survived in 1979 my father said to me at the time the bloke that did that won`t last 5 days, turns out he lasted two, murdered personally by George`s associate Lenny MacPherson two days after the event. You better not miss.

[Sports Prophet]

47 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Why would any established Vichy earning decent money play our game? . 

For those living in Aus, more money and profile.

For those not living in Australia, earning capacity in a better country, with lotsa beach babes.

[Exiled Wiganer]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

For those living in Aus, more money and profile.

For those not living in Australia, earning capacity in a better country, with lotsa beach babes.

Playing a game too difficult for them. 

[Sports Prophet]

54 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Playing a game too difficult for them. 

Much easier transition for a back, I don’t think it’s that difficult. Off the top of my head Davies, Chariots and Sticky all made pretty big successes of themselves coming from Union.

I think you have a grossly elevated opinion on the athletic superiority a RL player has over a RU player.

[Damien]

On 12/11/2023 at 18:18, The Future is League said:

On reflection this seems like another Peter V'landys idea to take union to a place where they won't be comfortable. 

He's already rattled the AFL with the introduction of The Dolphins into the NRL and taking NRL games to Las Vegas, giving the NRL positive column inches.

Well they've given up quick :

[The Rocket]

Sport Confidential: England rugby star Henry Arundell on NRL radars | The Australian

"One of the most exciting young stars in English rugby union has made it known he wants a crack at the NRL – and he could benefit from any potential war chest the game brings in.

"English flyer Henry Arundell, who played at the most recent World Cup, is flirting with the prospect of making the move which could be fast-tracked as early as 2024.

"Sport Confidential understands that Arundell has come onto the NRL’s radar in recent weeks after parties on behalf of the 21-year-old reached out to a host of clubs to flag the potential switch of codes.

"NRL clubs are already seriously interested. It comes as NRL bosses flirt with the prospect of a massive salary cap dispensation to attract players from different codes across the world.

 

Henry Arundell (C) makes a break while playing for Racing 92 in the French Top14. Picture: AFP

"Arundell, an outside back, is considered one of England’s best emerging talents. He will be a free agent before the NRL’s June 30 mid-season transfer deadline once his commitments with French rugby side Racing 92 come to an end.

"It is understood clubs will step up their pursuit of Arundell once he formally commits to moving to the NRL. Arundell became a free agent when his former side London Irish fell into administration in early June."

Even if he`s only using it to drive up the prices for union players I don`t mind, but if he really wants to come over and test himself, well, welcome aboard.

 

[Copa]

23 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Sport Confidential: England rugby star Henry Arundell on NRL radars | The Australian

"One of the most exciting young stars in English rugby union has made it known he wants a crack at the NRL – and he could benefit from any potential war chest the game brings in.

"English flyer Henry Arundell, who played at the most recent World Cup, is flirting with the prospect of making the move which could be fast-tracked as early as 2024.

"Sport Confidential understands that Arundell has come onto the NRL’s radar in recent weeks after parties on behalf of the 21-year-old reached out to a host of clubs to flag the potential switch of codes.

"NRL clubs are already seriously interested. It comes as NRL bosses flirt with the prospect of a massive salary cap dispensation to attract players from different codes across the world.

 

Henry Arundell (C) makes a break while playing for Racing 92 in the French Top14. Picture: AFP

"Arundell, an outside back, is considered one of England’s best emerging talents. He will be a free agent before the NRL’s June 30 mid-season transfer deadline once his commitments with French rugby side Racing 92 come to an end.

"It is understood clubs will step up their pursuit of Arundell once he formally commits to moving to the NRL. Arundell became a free agent when his former side London Irish fell into administration in early June."

Even if he`s only using it to drive up the prices for union players I don`t mind, but if he really wants to come over and test himself, well, welcome aboard.

 

It’s like some cheesy internet advertisement: “With this one trick, the NRL can boost rugby union wage demands!”

[AB90]

On 15/11/2023 at 01:17, unapologetic pedant said:

You appear to be saying that RL interest in Wales arose from the practice of English clubs signing Welsh RU players. It logically follows that said interest evaporates when English clubs stop signing Welsh RU players. Which rather amplifies my point that signing RU players "is not a recipe for long term prosperity".

Consider it in reverse - do you think the signings of Sailor, Rogers, Tuqiri, proved to be sound investments in the future of Australian RU?

Briefly and superficially. Moreover, invites the NZ media to focus on RU players. Thus drawing kudos and sponsorship dollars away from the more deserving products of RL junior systems. Warriors players should be big stars in NZ because they play for the Warriors, not because they previously played for the All Blacks.

Yes, Sailor, Rogers, Tuqiri were great investments imo and boosted rugby union immensely in Australia during that time which is considered a golden age for the game in Australia.

Israel Folau was literally the poster boy for Australian rugby union throughout the mid 2010’s and was was one of the highest profile rugby players in the world bringing significant exposure, eyeballs and marketing dollars (pre homosexuality comments) for the sport. One could argue that the NRL massively dropped the ball by not having any kind of salary cap exemptions for signing athletes outside of the sport which would of enabled the NRL to sign Folau when he left the AFL.

Re your last paragraph - why can’t clubs do both? Some NRL clubs are owned by billionaires and other incredibly wealthy people in addition to the circa $18m a year they all get from the NRL. Yes, invest in RL junior systems and also sign talent from other sports.

[Coggo]

Arundell signing for an NRL club would cause the 57 old beans at the RFU to choke on their prawn salads. 

[The Rocket]

On 15/11/2023 at 15:16, Damien said:

Well they've given up quick :

Don`t trust them as far as you could throw them, even the clown ftsmmns writing in today`s Herald what almost reads like a white flag:

When Peter V’landys met Hamish McLennan: Why rugby union and rugby league should end player raids between the rival codes (smh.com.au)

"Does it make sense for both codes to go at each other right now, and steal each other’s players?"

They got one of about six they seriously went after, even with their "exciting runway of events" and now they`re saying we don`t want League players anyway and we`ll stop, so should you. Spare me. There`s something rotten in the state of Oz rugby.

 

[Sports Prophet]

34 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Don`t trust them as far as you could throw them, even the clown ftsmmns writing in today`s Herald what almost reads like a white flag:

When Peter V’landys met Hamish McLennan: Why rugby union and rugby league should end player raids between the rival codes (smh.com.au)

"Does it make sense for both codes to go at each other right now, and steal each other’s players?"

They got one of about six they seriously went after, even with their "exciting runway of events" and now they`re saying we don`t want League players anyway and we`ll stop, so should you. Spare me. There`s something rotten in the state of Oz rugby.

 

Don’t let it upset you Rocket. It’s just business and individuals doing their best for their own purposes. While the NRL has the strong arm here, RU has the strong arm over there.

At least we can all take comfort (RU dans included) that as a society, we all think PFS is a pig! Collectively, something is right  

[bar red]

There is one caveat to the NRL chest beat about its impressive war chest. There was a rumours in a British newspaper of the Gulf States adding RU to its impressive sports portfolio. On the back of the international game. There would only be one winner in that battle.  Lets hope not.

[unapologetic pedant]

5 hours ago, AB90 said:

Yes, Sailor, Rogers, Tuqiri were great investments imo and boosted rugby union immensely in Australia during that time which is considered a golden age for the game in Australia.

Israel Folau was literally the poster boy for Australian rugby union throughout the mid 2010’s and was was one of the highest profile rugby players in the world bringing significant exposure, eyeballs and marketing dollars (pre homosexuality comments) for the sport. 

This remains a depiction of contemporary benefits. No different from your previous mention of the upsides of English clubs signing Welsh RU players in the 80s and 90s.

Still waiting for evidence of enduring prosperity i.e. in what way is English RL in 2023 better off for our erstwhile outlay on Welsh RU players and in what way is Australian RU in 2023 better off for spending their money on the four RL signings cited above?

[The Future is League]

8 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Sport Confidential: England rugby star Henry Arundell on NRL radars | The Australian

"One of the most exciting young stars in English rugby union has made it known he wants a crack at the NRL – and he could benefit from any potential war chest the game brings in.

"English flyer Henry Arundell, who played at the most recent World Cup, is flirting with the prospect of making the move which could be fast-tracked as early as 2024.

"Sport Confidential understands that Arundell has come onto the NRL’s radar in recent weeks after parties on behalf of the 21-year-old reached out to a host of clubs to flag the potential switch of codes.

"NRL clubs are already seriously interested. It comes as NRL bosses flirt with the prospect of a massive salary cap dispensation to attract players from different codes across the world.

 

Henry Arundell (C) makes a break while playing for Racing 92 in the French Top14. Picture: AFP

"Arundell, an outside back, is considered one of England’s best emerging talents. He will be a free agent before the NRL’s June 30 mid-season transfer deadline once his commitments with French rugby side Racing 92 come to an end.

"It is understood clubs will step up their pursuit of Arundell once he formally commits to moving to the NRL. Arundell became a free agent when his former side London Irish fell into administration in early June."

Even if he`s only using it to drive up the prices for union players I don`t mind, but if he really wants to come over and test himself, well, welcome aboard.

 

The RFU will double his money to make sure he stays in union, otherwise they fear rightly or wrongly that others will follow suit

[AB90]

8 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

This remains a depiction of contemporary benefits. No different from your previous mention of the upsides of English clubs signing Welsh RU players in the 80s and 90s.

Still waiting for evidence of enduring prosperity i.e. in what way is English RL in 2023 better off for our erstwhile outlay on Welsh RU players and in what way is Australian RU in 2023 better off for spending their money on the four RL signings cited above?

The evidence is in state of the games (English RL/Aus RU) in 2023 vs the state of the games at the time they were making these cross code investments for players. 

[unapologetic pedant]

38 minutes ago, AB90 said:

The evidence is in state of the games (English RL/Aus RU) in 2023 vs the state of the games at the time they were making these cross code investments for players. 

You might be confusing evidence of prosperity with memories of prosperity.

[AB90]

6 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

You might be confusing evidence of prosperity with memories of prosperity.

Nope, definitely using evidence. Since the mid 2000’s the NSW Waratahs & Queensland Reds average crowds have dropped by circa 20,000 each. The Brumbies average attendance is now 9,000 when 15 to 20 years ago they were pushing 20,000 average.

Unless you want to compare other metrics that determine the success of a sport - TV ratings? Clubs revenues? Sponsorship dollars? Media interest? TV deals? I have a feeling that all of these will comprehensively support my position on this.

[Exiled Wiganer]

On 15/11/2023 at 00:57, Sports Prophet said:

Much easier transition for a back, I don’t think it’s that difficult. Off the top of my head Davies, Chariots and Sticky all made pretty big successes of themselves coming from Union.

I think you have a grossly elevated opinion on the athletic superiority a RL player has over a RU player.

no, I have a functioning set of eyes

[unapologetic pedant]

7 hours ago, AB90 said:

Nope, definitely using evidence. Since the mid 2000’s the NSW Waratahs & Queensland Reds average crowds have dropped by circa 20,000 each. The Brumbies average attendance is now 9,000 when 15 to 20 years ago they were pushing 20,000 average.

Unless you want to compare other metrics that determine the success of a sport - TV ratings? Clubs revenues? Sponsorship dollars? Media interest? TV deals? I have a feeling that all of these will comprehensively support my position on this.

Those details will certainly support the position that Australian RU was more popular when they were signing NRL players. But that isn't what I'm asking you about.

There is no evidence of permanent benefits. On the contrary, observation of the current state of English RL and Australian RU, suggests that a raft of high-profile cross-code signings is merely a sign of short-sighted profligacy.

And it's a moot point whether such signings are a symptom or cause of success. 

This exchange began with you expressing a desire for the Warriors to sign an All Black. Warriors are naturally in the market, like all NRL clubs, for schoolboy RU players. Many of these have experience in both codes, particularly junior League. Players who succeed via these pathways make their name in NRL. They add enduring value cumulatively. This is where the money should go.

If the Warriors sought to leverage the reputation of an All Black, what effect will it have on your metrics of "TV ratings, deals, etc" in 2043 or 2053?

[AB90]

7 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Those details will certainly support the position that Australian RU was more popular when they were signing NRL players. But that isn't what I'm asking you about.

There is no evidence of permanent benefits. On the contrary, observation of the current state of English RL and Australian RU, suggests that a raft of high-profile cross-code signings is merely a sign of short-sighted profligacy.

And it's a moot point whether such signings are a symptom or cause of success. 

This exchange began with you expressing a desire for the Warriors to sign an All Black. Warriors are naturally in the market, like all NRL clubs, for schoolboy RU players. Many of these have experience in both codes, particularly junior League. Players who succeed via these pathways make their name in NRL. They add enduring value cumulatively. This is where the money should go.

If the Warriors sought to leverage the reputation of an All Black, what effect will it have on your metrics of "TV ratings, deals, etc" in 2043 or 2053?

If the Warriors sign an All Black with some kind of decent profile that player would instantly become the most high profile New Zealand rugby league player on the planet with significantly more media attention on him than any existing New Zealand rugby league player.

There would be incredible interest from rugby league fans, casual sports fans who dip into both league/union & die hard rugby union fans to see how that player goes, is he any good at league, will succeed etc which will naturally increase the eyeballs of whatever team this player signs with.

Maybe let’s agree to disagree.