Ex England and GB coach keen to coach Kiwis

[The Future is League]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/133389085/wayne-bennett-keen-to-replace-michael-maguire-as-kiwis-coach

[graveyard johnny]

he had the gig in 2007 didn't he? am sure shaun johnson will go great on the left wing though

[The Future is League]

30 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

he had the gig in 2007 didn't he? am sure shaun johnson will go great on the left wing though

Only as an assist to Stephen Kearney

[Hopie]

Can't think of a better coach to have for a World Cup, he clearly helped them win it in 2008 and he got England's best performance in my memory (in 2017).

Edited December 3, 2023 by Hopie

[Eddie]

42 minutes ago, Hopie said:

Can't think of a better coach to have for a World Cup, he clearly helped them win it in 2008 and he got England's best performance in my memory (in 2017).

And the last GB tour  

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

And the last GB tour  

Beat me to it Eddie, what a total 'tactics and gameplan' shambles that was.

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

And the last GB tour  

What about the rest of his record?  
If the GB team had been supported more by SL clubs they would’ve done ok.

[Hopie]

After the 2017 performance he earned the chance to stay as long as he wanted, a few poor performances in what was essentially a series of one off tests shouldn't have changed that, but instead we ended up with Wane and the 2022 shambles.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Hopie

[ghost crayfish]

5 minutes ago, Hopie said:

After the 2017 performance he earned the chance to stay as long as he wanted, a few poor performances in what was essentially a series of one off tests shouldn't have changed that, but instead we ended up with Wane and the 2022 shambles.

Yeah, while I was a critic of Bennett and the GB fiasco, I tend to think if you put him in charge of England last year they win the World Cup - certainly wouldn't have choked against Samoa like that.

[Click]

2 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

Yeah, while I was a critic of Bennett and the GB fiasco, I tend to think if you put him in charge of England last year they win the World Cup - certainly wouldn't have choked against Samoa like that.

Didn't he lose to PNG and Tonga that year? Not sure that shows that they wouldn't have choked against Samoa.

[Harry Stottle]

9 hours ago, Click said:

Didn't he lose to PNG and Tonga that year? Not sure that shows that they wouldn't have choked against Samoa.

Tonga × 2, NZ and PNG.

I spoke to one of the senior GB team quite a while a couple of years in fact after that tour and exclaimed what a shambles that was with the 'possession' football instruction of 'take no risks', said player looked at me winked and said "it was a bloody good tour though", make of that what you will. 

[philipw]

15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Tonga × 2, NZ and PNG.

I spoke to one of the senior GB team quite a while a couple of years in fact after that tour and exclaimed what a shambles that was with the 'possession' football instruction of 'take no risks', said player looked at me winked and said "it was a bloody good tour though", make of that what you will. 

*Tonga, NZ x2 and PNG.

[Harry Stottle]

56 minutes ago, philipw said:

*Tonga, NZ x2 and PNG.

Off course it was thanks for the correction Phillip, slip of the finger, and I went.

[Hopie]

If you think Wayne Bennett shouldn't have been the Great Britain coach, I'd agree it is an arguable point. I think it is a much weaker argument to say he shouldn't have continued as England coach.

My opinion was he used the GB "tour" as a free hit in a long term prep for the next world cup. That the "tour" was a mish-mash of who was available to play after the Aussies tried to change the calendar (something that is becoming familiar) didn't help. I was annoyed by the results at the time, but more so by the downgrade we ended up with in the coach's position. I expect Bennett would not have survived the same set of results that Wane gave us in 2022.

[Click]

1 hour ago, Hopie said:

If you think Wayne Bennett shouldn't have been the Great Britain coach, I'd agree it is an arguable point. I think it is a much weaker argument to say he shouldn't have continued as England coach.

My opinion was he used the GB "tour" as a free hit in a long term prep for the next world cup. That the "tour" was a mish-mash of who was available to play after the Aussies tried to change the calendar (something that is becoming familiar) didn't help. I was annoyed by the results at the time, but more so by the downgrade we ended up with in the coach's position. I expect Bennett would not have survived the same set of results that Wane gave us in 2022.

I don't think it matters much what his intentions were, whatever they were - He failed horribly as coach as GB, and that was interlinked with him being England coach. 

Many people said he just used GB as his England squad, so you can just assume if it was an England tour rather than a GB one, it wouldn't have been much different. 

If Bennett did use a GB tour as a "free hit" then he deserved not continuing as England coach. 

I honestly don't see Wane as that much of a downgrade to Bennett, if at all. A national coach is not the same as a club coach, Bennett wasn't spending 9 months of the year with England players, looking at how to develop them further, etc. At least Wane can watch most England potentials every week with being based in the UK.

Should Wane have continued or been let go after the WC? I was very 50/50 on that decision, in the end he has delivered a 3-0 series win against Tonga 12 months following, so the decision to keep him on board in hindsight seems to have been a good one.

[Damien]

Well done the NZRL:

 

 

[Lowdesert]

On 04/12/2023 at 21:37, Click said:

I don't think it matters much what his intentions were, whatever they were - He failed horribly as coach as GB, and that was interlinked with him being England coach. 

Many people said he just used GB as his England squad, so you can just assume if it was an England tour rather than a GB one, it wouldn't have been much different. 

If Bennett did use a GB tour as a "free hit" then he deserved not continuing as England coach. 

I honestly don't see Wane as that much of a downgrade to Bennett, if at all. A national coach is not the same as a club coach, Bennett wasn't spending 9 months of the year with England players, looking at how to develop them further, etc. At least Wane can watch most England potentials every week with being based in the UK.

Should Wane have continued or been let go after the WC? I was very 50/50 on that decision, in the end he has delivered a 3-0 series win against Tonga 12 months following, so the decision to keep him on board in hindsight seems to have been a good one.

A couple of points regarding Wane.  Firstly, I don’t think his approach of whipping the team up into a frenzy ala the ‘disrespect’ theme shown against Tonga, will have the necessary impact v Aus, NZ or will be able to be maintained in a WC.  Certainly worked v Tonga!
Secondly, neither will bringing SAS type motivators the day/afternoon before a big game as in the Samoa semi final loss, where it was clear that the England players were out of gas.  In my opinion attributed to Adrenalin issues.  

No doubt he deserves to be in post after Tonga but imo Bennett’s approach of man management would win more for us in the long term Wanes.  

[Click]

17 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

A couple of points regarding Wane.  Firstly, I don’t think his approach of whipping the team up into a frenzy ala the ‘disrespect’ theme shown against Tonga, will have the necessary impact v Aus, NZ or will be able to be maintained in a WC.  Certainly worked v Tonga!
Secondly, neither will bringing SAS type motivators the day/afternoon before a big game as in the Samoa semi final loss, where it was clear that the England players were out of gas.  In my opinion attributed to Adrenalin issues.  

No doubt he deserves to be in post after Tonga but imo Bennett’s approach of man management would win more for us in the long term Wanes.  

I am not sure what disrespect theme you are talking about, other than the whole Tongan coach disrespecting England and Wane choosing to highlight that and use it as an extra motivating factor. Will that work against Aus, NZ? Who knows, will Aus and NZ coaches disrespect England in the build up? I am sure the Aussie media will, and that will be used as extra motivation like it probably has for every single England tour/game against Australia especially. 

You can say that the loss was because the England players were out of gas, in my opinion Wane made some selection issues which is the reason why we lost, and then some composure at key moments. These are full time professional athletes playing at the top level of the sport. They didn't particularly have a hard tiring run into the Semi's from what I can recall. I am not sure you can blame Wane's motivational skills is what apparently tired out the players. 

We had Bennett for 4 years if I recall, and we got to the final and lost. We are now approaching 4 years with Wane and we made it to the SF and lost in Golden Point. I am not sure there is any evidence to say Bennett's approach in man management would win more for us long term than Wane. I do remember Bennett selecting a 35 year old Australian in Chris Heighnington for England, as well as picking Blake Austin on the wing for GB. 

[sam4731]

On 03/12/2023 at 18:11, Harry Stottle said:

Beat me to it Eddie, what a total 'tactics and gameplan' shambles that was.

Calling up Ash Handley mid tour to not play him and play Blake Austin on the wing was a particular masterstroke.

[Lowdesert]

5 hours ago, Click said:

I am not sure what disrespect theme you are talking about, other than the whole Tongan coach disrespecting England and Wane choosing to highlight that and use it as an extra motivating factor. Will that work against Aus, NZ? Who knows, will Aus and NZ coaches disrespect England in the build up? I am sure the Aussie media will, and that will be used as extra motivation like it probably has for every single England tour/game against Australia especially. 

You can say that the loss was because the England players were out of gas, in my opinion Wane made some selection issues which is the reason why we lost, and then some composure at key moments. These are full time professional athletes playing at the top level of the sport. They didn't particularly have a hard tiring run into the Semi's from what I can recall. I am not sure you can blame Wane's motivational skills is what apparently tired out the players. 

We had Bennett for 4 years if I recall, and we got to the final and lost. We are now approaching 4 years with Wane and we made it to the SF and lost in Golden Point. I am not sure there is any evidence to say Bennett's approach in man management would win more for us long term than Wane. I do remember Bennett selecting a 35 year old Australian in Chris Heighnington for England, as well as picking Blake Austin on the wing for GB. 

Yes, the disrespect shown by the Tongan coach and I’m pretty sure the ‘motivational arrangement’ had an effect.  Not the sole cause.
 

The GB tour is always used to hammer WB but he only had what the clubs would release.  Secondly, selection of that group included 5 other UK coaches.  Lastly, WB has openly said he would never have made some selections if there were better options I.e Bateman.  
 

Not withstanding that, we can’t compare SW v WBs career achievement at this level.   I would give SW a few years yet and it’s clear that the international agendas might affect meaningful competition for him.

 

[tuutaisrambo]

Put it this way........a NZ team coached by Wayne Bennett will be far too good for the current England team...........and Samoa and Tonga.

The Aussies will be worried.......hence V'landy's stupid comments.

FWIW I don't think he wanted to do that GB Tour........and he doesn't seem the type to put much effort into something he doesn't want to do.

[Click]

28 minutes ago, tuutaisrambo said:

Put it this way........a NZ team coached by Wayne Bennett will be far too good for the current England team...........and Samoa and Tonga.

The Aussies will be worried.......hence V'landy's stupid comments.

FWIW I don't think he wanted to do that GB Tour........and he doesn't seem the type to put much effort into something he doesn't want to do.

Then he shouldn't have done it. No one forced him.

[Click]

2 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Yes, the disrespect shown by the Tongan coach and I’m pretty sure the ‘motivational arrangement’ had an effect.  Not the sole cause.
 

The GB tour is always used to hammer WB but he only had what the clubs would release.  Secondly, selection of that group included 5 other UK coaches.  Lastly, WB has openly said he would never have made some selections if there were better options I.e Bateman.  
 

Not withstanding that, we can’t compare SW v WBs career achievement at this level.   I would give SW a few years yet and it’s clear that the international agendas might affect meaningful competition for him.

 

You didn't comment on Heighnington, Bennett was England coach for 4 years but I never got the impression that he respected Super League all that much, or the majority of players in it.

[tuutaisrambo]

44 minutes ago, Click said:

Then he shouldn't have done it. No one forced him.

I don't like my job half the time but I'm not turning down the money.........clearly he didn't take the GB job too seriously

Probably should have given the tour to someone else.

He's interested in winning world cups and we'd have been a better side with him in charge for the last one IMO.

[Click]

3 hours ago, tuutaisrambo said:

I don't like my job half the time but I'm not turning down the money.........clearly he didn't take the GB job too seriously

Probably should have given the tour to someone else.

He's interested in winning world cups and we'd have been a better side with him in charge for the last one IMO.

Bennett shouldn't have taken the job if he didn't want to take it seriously. It heavily impacted the respect people in the UK held for him.

You & your job is pretty irrelevant. He was England coach and was offered an additional job for GB, he didn't have to take it.

Would Bennett have been better than Wane in the last WC? Who knows, but the tour with GB heavily impacted his ending with England.