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[The Voodooguru]

17 hours ago, Chico said:

Here is a question for you and please try and answer it without twisting my words or imagining I'm insulting you.

If a new stand was built that is currently better than what is the main stand at Derwent Park, a suitable new pitch laid with correct dimensions for both sports, the surrounding area around the pitch made safe for all and with a detailed business plan in place to build future stands would you support that or would you want to stay at Derwent Park until it is all fully built?

Genuine question with no hidden agenda

Personally it would depend on whether the business plan had any commitments to fund any of it. A business plan can be fantastic and detail every cost, but if that cost is a loan that is around both clubs necks then neither club is any better off. The toilets might not be backing up in the new stand but this fantastic earning potential revenue you talk about might be a bigger noose than both teams currently have with crumbling old stadiums.

Here's a hypothetical question back at you, and I have zero knowledge of what the next announcement by CSV may be.

Imagine the scenario was reversed. Reds had to give up BP to move to DP, there's a very expensive plan published by CSV and they said that due to spiralling costs the design has been scaled back but £6m now gets you a basic stand, and no investment in any other phases has been forthcoming.  But the business plan says a £4m loan will build the remaining phases. Would you get the party poppers out and say that this is a fantastic deal for the reds, imagine what the stadium could look like if they can only find the investment. Move to DP and then pray in years to come investment can be found or build the lot with a loan?

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

I would say that with inflation after Covid, the 6 million is probably worth 15-20% less than it was at the time of the award.

It would probably make more sense to have the stadium itself ran as a social enterprise with representation from both clubs plus the council and try to fund the additional stages that way in the form of grant funding.

Sport England and other government bodies are much more likely to fund a social enterprise than 2 semi professional clubs.

If you throw in FA funding as well then it is possible to complete the stadium over time, but would probably need the Reds to climb at least 1 or 2 more leagues.

A new stadium will have costs, but that should be a fairly simple process to work out what they are and the simplest way is to charge a match rental fee, if floodlights are required then that’s an additional cost.

Town at this stage have more to lose on the hospitality because they run it themselves and the marquee has been a great investment and allowed them to maximise their potential non matchday income, but you would hope that the club have argued their case and that a fan zone could be incorporated fairly cheaply into the design, if done correctly it could be utilised as Workington’s premier event area and bring in even more money which would help maintain the stadium.

as equal partners, they both have the opportunity to present their case, the Reds board will have noticed how successful the fan zone has been and will want something similar for their own home games, obviously they play in winter so certain times of the months so that would need to be allowed for in any design but I don’t think this part of the plan is insurmountable 

[Anita Bath]

As an outsider can anyone tell me what the ownership of the ‘new’ stadium will be? Rochdale had a three way ownership of Spotland split 40/40/20 between the footy, rugby and local council I think. Might be worth talking to some of their folks as to how effective it was, but I dont think it worked that well for all the issues you raise and more as well.

[Chico]

On 09/06/2024 at 12:54, The Voodooguru said:

Personally it would depend on whether the business plan had any commitments to fund any of it. A business plan can be fantastic and detail every cost, but if that cost is a loan that is around both clubs necks then neither club is any better off. The toilets might not be backing up in the new stand but this fantastic earning potential revenue you talk about might be a bigger noose than both teams currently have with crumbling old stadiums.

Here's a hypothetical question back at you, and I have zero knowledge of what the next announcement by CSV may be.

Imagine the scenario was reversed. Reds had to give up BP to move to DP, there's a very expensive plan published by CSV and they said that due to spiralling costs the design has been scaled back but £6m now gets you a basic stand, and no investment in any other phases has been forthcoming.  But the business plan says a £4m loan will build the remaining phases. Would you get the party poppers out and say that this is a fantastic deal for the reds, imagine what the stadium could look like if they can only find the investment. Move to DP and then pray in years to come investment can be found or build the lot with a loan?

So if no loans, or minimal at best, you would support it and move in prior to the rest of the stadium built?

To answer your question I would support it as long as the new stand was better than what is currently at Derwent Park, The speedway track removed and the stands / terracing brought closer in, a community pitch was still built and the £4million loan was fully costed so that it wouldn't have any detrimental effects to either clubs or the public and can be paid back early without interest if funding can be found from elsewhere e.g businesses moving in/supporting, Grants etc.

Not sure where the CSV published a very expensive plan only for it to be scaled back due to spiralling costs. The fully funded stadium was shelved when the Tories took over the area as they hoodwinked everyone into believing their lies exaggerating the costs. As far as im aware the CSV wasnt formed until the Town fund deal came in and since then it was always going to be a stadium built in phases with £6 million budget for the initial phase - I may be wrong about that though as its dragged on that long now and people just make things up to suit the reality is quickly lost. 

There is someone on this forum who actually believes the plans include having a training pitch floating above the river and then a greenhouse being put on the front so i can see how easy it was for the tories to get some people to believe their lies as there are a lot of gullible people around.

 

I think the best thing that needs to happen now is a statement from both clubs stating their intentions, preferably a joint one to show solidarity in each other, and an update released from CSV. 

I think the amount of attention this subject has got on here since last week proves this is needed sooner rather than later.

 

[Derwent Parker]

2 hours ago, Chico said:

So if no loans, or minimal at best, you would support it and move in prior to the rest of the stadium built?

To answer your question I would support it as long as the new stand was better than what is currently at Derwent Park, The speedway track removed and the stands / terracing brought closer in, a community pitch was still built and the £4million loan was fully costed so that it wouldn't have any detrimental effects to either clubs or the public and can be paid back early without interest if funding can be found from elsewhere e.g businesses moving in/supporting, Grants etc.

Not sure where the CSV published a very expensive plan only for it to be scaled back due to spiralling costs. The fully funded stadium was shelved when the Tories took over the area as they hoodwinked everyone into believing their lies exaggerating the costs. As far as im aware the CSV wasnt formed until the Town fund deal came in and since then it was always going to be a stadium built in phases with £6 million budget for the initial phase - I may be wrong about that though as its dragged on that long now and people just make things up to suit the reality is quickly lost. 

There is someone on this forum who actually believes the plans include having a training pitch floating above the river and then a greenhouse being put on the front so i can see how easy it was for the tories to get some people to believe their lies as there are a lot of gullible people around.

 

I think the best thing that needs to happen now is a statement from both clubs stating their intentions, preferably a joint one to show solidarity in each other, and an update released from CSV. 

I think the amount of attention this subject has got on here since last week proves this is needed sooner rather than later.

 

Chico what are you talking about -  You need to read these things properly

You were the one who mentioned a floating 3G pitch.

I never even mentioned Training pitch [till now] in this latest topic -  I referred to the Cartoon drawing " when writing in regards to grandstand - which is all we have to go on until we see some real grown up plans" - if ever

And it does show a rather big Greenhouse on the opposite side in Phase 2

By the way - INDICITIVE is an adjective

1. serving as a sign or indication of something:

So granted that means its not FINAL - but why indicate/show a Low level stand - if you are building a 3 tier stand and why show a greenhouse if there is no intention of it being there?

And why show BP at 90 degree if not thinking about it?

This was mentioned by a lot in a previous BP topic

If the cartoon drawing was/is absolutely nothing at all to do with  what is in the pipeline they might as well not put it there and saved their pack of crayons or just put a photo of Old Trafford there instead? Cos it wont be like that either

Edited June 10 by Derwent Parker

[Derwent Parker]

On 09/06/2024 at 11:53, Bearintown said:

If the move in together , in whatever form, does happen.

Then what will be the deal with hospitality and bar revenues?

This is the area that Town have shown real progress on and I dare say cannot afford to lose or dilute 

 

Just re-read this  From CSV website

How will the Sports Village be funded in the future?

"There will obviously be the usual income from ticket sales, hospitality, sponsorship and corporate activities, but more funding will always be needed. We’re talking to a range of local and national businesses and organisations about working together to generate the money needed to run the Sports Village as a successful and profitable community venture."

These are what we use to run our teams?

STAY AS WE ARE :_ The money Town make from ticket sales, hospitality, sponsorship and corporate

is what runs our club and pays for maintenance at DP as well as the BRILLIANT work the volunteers do

Its a con - just to get reds a stand

[The Voodooguru]

8 hours ago, Chico said:

So if no loans, or minimal at best, you would support it and move in prior to the rest of the stadium built?

To answer your question I would support it as long as the new stand was better than what is currently at Derwent Park, The speedway track removed and the stands / terracing brought closer in, a community pitch was still built and the £4million loan was fully costed so that it wouldn't have any detrimental effects to either clubs or the public and can be paid back early without interest if funding can be found from elsewhere e.g businesses moving in/supporting, Grants etc.

Not sure where the CSV published a very expensive plan only for it to be scaled back due to spiralling costs. The fully funded stadium was shelved when the Tories took over the area as they hoodwinked everyone into believing their lies exaggerating the costs. As far as im aware the CSV wasnt formed until the Town fund deal came in and since then it was always going to be a stadium built in phases with £6 million budget for the initial phase - I may be wrong about that though as its dragged on that long now and people just make things up to suit the reality is quickly lost. 

There is someone on this forum who actually believes the plans include having a training pitch floating above the river and then a greenhouse being put on the front so i can see how easy it was for the tories to get some people to believe their lies as there are a lot of gullible people around.

 

I think the best thing that needs to happen now is a statement from both clubs stating their intentions, preferably a joint one to show solidarity in each other, and an update released from CSV. 

I think the amount of attention this subject has got on here since last week proves this is needed sooner rather than later.

 

If it was BP with one new stand and hopes and promises for the other phases - No. 

If it has to be BP with a really top notch new stand and the other stands funded with a set timetable for the completion of the stadium that isn't counted in decades - Yes as long as it's not some scaffolding like structure for the other phases and the pitch perimeter is sorted.

If you read my post I said it was a hypothetical scenario. But I won't be surprised if that's what happens. 

How the Tories ( Mark Jenkinson)  scuppered the original stadium was pathetic.  Everyone was all for that and he wanted to make a political statement so lied to get it shelved.

I agree CSV needs to make a statement. 

[Chico]

8 hours ago, The Voodooguru said:

If it was BP with one new stand and hopes and promises for the other phases - No. 

If it has to be BP with a really top notch new stand and the other stands funded with a set timetable for the completion of the stadium that isn't counted in decades - Yes as long as it's not some scaffolding like structure for the other phases and the pitch perimeter is sorted.

If you read my post I said it was a hypothetical scenario. But I won't be surprised if that's what happens. 

How the Tories ( Mark Jenkinson)  scuppered the original stadium was pathetic.  Everyone was all for that and he wanted to make a political statement so lied to get it shelved.

I agree CSV needs to make a statement. 

Agree the timetable for the remainder being completed needs to be in the foreseeable future and not decades down the line.

Hopefully some statement / update will come soon, I believe the plan is to submit the formal application in the autumn but I would hope that something comes out before then. 

[DocH]

18 hours ago, The Voodooguru said:

How the Tories ( Mark Jenkinson)  scuppered the original stadium was pathetic. 

Devastating in fact

[Rex3]

4 minutes ago, DocH said:

Devastating in fact

Yes sad to realise that if he hadn't been successful in misleading people Town would now be playing in an impressive, first class designed stadium

[IanMac]

9 minutes ago, Rex3 said:

Yes sad to realise that if he hadn't been successful in misleading people Town would now be playing in an impressive, first class designed stadium

And the business’s in town would have been reaping the economic benefits of having the NHS and Sellafield staff based there. But hey ho Jenkinson knew best! 

[dkw]

41 minutes ago, Rex3 said:

Yes sad to realise that if he hadn't been successful in misleading people Town would now be playing in an impressive, first class designed stadium

I drove past the ranch on Sunday, massive kids football tournament going on and I couldn't help wonder how much better it could have been with proper facilities in the new stadium. 

[homeandawayer]

4 hours ago, dkw said:

I drove past the ranch on Sunday, massive kids football tournament going on and I couldn't help wonder how much better it could have been with proper facilities in the new stadium. 

TBH I think the Ranch is perfect for that, we had several pitches on the go on both days. I was just doing a bit of reffing but exReds player Johno did a great job organising it and as you say it was massive . The only issue is lack of parking.

[dkw]

11 hours ago, homeandawayer said:

TBH I think the Ranch is perfect for that, we had several pitches on the go on both days. I was just doing a bit of reffing but exReds player Johno did a great job organising it and as you say it was massive . The only issue is lack of parking.

It's a cold cold place, barely any facilities, parking etc. It's always been a boggy pitch after a but of rain.

I'm definitely not knocking the efforts of anyone involved in those kind of tournaments, I know from experience the incredible work that goes into it by volunteers, Parents etc, and it was great seeing how busy it was.

I just thought how better it could be with modern hybrid pitches, changing facilities, parking, all the other gubbins. 

[Rex3]

On 09/06/2024 at 14:16, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

I would say that with inflation after Covid, the 6 million is probably worth 15-20% less than it was at the time of the award.

It would probably make more sense to have the stadium itself ran as a social enterprise with representation from both clubs plus the council and try to fund the additional stages that way in the form of grant funding.

Sport England and other government bodies are much more likely to fund a social enterprise than 2 semi professional clubs.

If you throw in FA funding as well then it is possible to complete the stadium over time, but would probably need the Reds to climb at least 1 or 2 more leagues.

A new stadium will have costs, but that should be a fairly simple process to work out what they are and the simplest way is to charge a match rental fee, if floodlights are required then that’s an additional cost.

Town at this stage have more to lose on the hospitality because they run it themselves and the marquee has been a great investment and allowed them to maximise their potential non matchday income, but you would hope that the club have argued their case and that a fan zone could be incorporated fairly cheaply into the design, if done correctly it could be utilised as Workington’s premier event area and bring in even more money which would help maintain the stadium.

as equal partners, they both have the opportunity to present their case, the Reds board will have noticed how successful the fan zone has been and will want something similar for their own home games, obviously they play in winter so certain times of the months so that would need to be allowed for in any design but I don’t think this part of the plan is insurmountable 

Great constructive  suggestions.  Hope the Stadium Joint Planning Group see them. A social enterprise (run by reps of  both clubs) would be able to raise funds more readily. 

A new stadium will be a symbol of Wton's regeneration after years and years of neglect and no investment. What is need in July is the promised public meeting. Town Board can issue a statement in the meantime?