Sheffield

[JohnM]

Dumb doesn't come near being an adequate adjective. 

[Griff]

3 hours ago, JohnM said:

That remindes me. I mean to post this (stolen) reminder of how social ( and other) media work.

 

Well, as you said yourself .........

[gingerjon]

53 minutes ago, M j M said:

I presume not 15 head coaches.

I keep going over this thinking i've missed something but all I can conclude is that there are just quite a few dumb people involved in Rugby League.

There's either a smoking gun which basically does show the RFL have somehow distorted what happened, and Aston can produce this, or there's a lot of people keen to downplay what happened and hurl the kitchen sink to defend a mate.

 

[Griff]

12 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

There's either a smoking gun which basically does show the RFL have somehow distorted what happened, and Aston can produce this, or there's a lot of people keen to downplay what happened and hurl the kitchen sink to defend a mate.

 

Worth pointing out here that John's open letter merely calls the process into question and asks for an independent tribunal.

He doesn't "downplay" or, indeed, even comment at all on what happened.

Now - go back to the witch hunt.

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, Griff said:

Worth pointing out here that John's open letter merely calls the process into question

Merely is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Calling the process into question does rather mean that nobody involved in the evidence assessing or sentence giving stage so far can be called independent or fair.

[Griff]

3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Merely is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Calling the process into question does rather mean that nobody involved in the evidence assessing or sentence giving stage so far can be called independent or fair.

Not necessarily.  Could be everyone.  Could be just one person.

What's doing the heavy lifting is lost and unavailable evidence and claims that certain emails are privileged.

[gingerjon]

19 minutes ago, Griff said:

Not necessarily.  Could be everyone.  Could be just one person.

What's doing the heavy lifting is lost and unavailable evidence and claims that certain emails are privileged.

Let's see what the next stage brings. We can do no more.

[Griff]

8 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Let's see what the next stage brings. We can do no more.

That's true.

I'll leave you with this thought.  I doubt whether those privileged emails contained anything helpful to the RFL's case.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Griff said:

That's true.

I'll leave you with this thought.  I doubt whether those privileged emails contained anything helpful to the RFL's case.

My personal view, which may be wrong, is that it's more likely to be over caution with regards to GDPR.

The Subject Access Request will be interesting. Especially as you still need to redact other people out of those.

[JohnM]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

There's either a smoking gun which basically does show the RFL have somehow distorted what happened, and Aston can produce this, or there's a lot of people keen to downplay what happened and hurl the kitchen sink to defend a mate.

 

Plus some might be from the "Game's gone/anti-RFL/Anti-IMG/Anti-everything Coalition"  faction. 

[hawk-eye]

4 hours ago, JohnM said:

Dumb doesn't come near being an adequate adjective. 

For the sake of clarity, what are you talking about?

[M j M]

2 hours ago, Griff said:

That's true.

I'll leave you with this thought.  I doubt whether those privileged emails contained anything helpful to the RFL's case.

Unless the emails say "Dear Mr Aston, we hereby give you permission to ignore the concussion protocols" then what they say, like the entire process defence, is merely a distraction from the key facts of this case.

[JohnM]

32 minutes ago, hawk-eye said:

For the sake of clarity, what are you talking about?

Obvious, innit.

John Kier and the 15 anonymous coaches. 

[The Blues Ox]

I saw how many coaches from the amateur game blindly signed the petition that Aston's daughter was pushing without knowing the full facts. You wonder if people backing John Kear, or even John Kear himself, are aware of the full facts. I'm not going to lie, the way the story was presented by Aston's daughter could easily have tugged on heart strings and I would probably have signed the petition as well if I had not already read the full version of the notes.

[Archie Gordon]

I hope Mick Heys is doing OK. 

Kear's letter, like Aston's evidence, is intimating that he hasn't been truthful. He seems to be the only one taking some responsibility.

[JohnM]

37 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

I saw how many coaches from the amateur game blindly signed the petition that Aston's daughter was pushing without knowing the full facts. You wonder if people backing John Kear, or even John Kear himself, are aware of the full facts. I'm not going to lie, the way the story was presented by Aston's daughter could easily have tugged on heart strings and I would probably have signed the petition as well if I had not already read the full version of the notes.

These days, in lieu of engaging their brains, people will say, share, repeat or sign anything that implies the small guy is being bullied and victimised by their particular "establishment", in this case, Aston and the RFL.

[hawk-eye]

13 hours ago, JohnM said:

Obvious, innit.

John Kier and the 15 anonymous coaches. 

If it was obvious I wouldn't have asked!

Relying on telepathy is not the ideal way to have a discussion.

[hawk-eye]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

These days, in lieu of engaging their brains, people will say, share, repeat or sign anything that implies the small guy is being bullied and victimised by their particular "establishment", in this case, Aston and the RFL.

So, in your opinion, all the coaches have put their reputation on the line without making themselves familiar with the information available?

[RP London]

On 15/11/2024 at 08:43, Wakefield Ram said:

Whilst Aston is rightly held to account for one case, exactly who's going to be held to account for not limiting contact training and the thousands of unnecessary sub-concussions suffered in training that's going to lead to hundreds maybe thousands of players with brain damage?

If the RFL are making out that this case somehow demonstrates they are taking concussions seriously, then they are ignoring the herd of elephants in the room. 

Who's going to be held to account for Llachlan Coote retiring at 31 with bleeding on the brain? Or Josh Jones? Or....

We can't go to the past all we can do is see what the court case brings on that.. but right now when we know what the situation is we HAVE to hold coaches that break the concussion protocol rules to account. It is quite that simple otherwise the RFL will 100% be liable in the future and they wouldn't even go to court to defend it as there would be no defence. 

The RFL are taking steps to solve their part of this but also should be punished for any wrong doings but that shouldnt detract from Aston's part and the punishment he should get. 

[RP London]

18 hours ago, Griff said:

Worth pointing out here that John's open letter merely calls the process into question and asks for an independent tribunal.

He doesn't "downplay" or, indeed, even comment at all on what happened.

Now - go back to the witch hunt.

You keep saying it's a witch hunt but a witch hunt is normally about people that haven't done anything wrong as witches don't exist... Aston broke protocol simply in the fact marsh hadn't been passed fit to play.. all the rest about the RFL is a sideline and distraction (one that should be looked at and dealt with) but unless, as has been said, there is some smoking gun of the RFL saying "play him, don't worry about it" then it's on him and he's guilty.. it's no witch hunt ffs

[Griff]

18 minutes ago, RP London said:

You keep saying it's a witch hunt but a witch hunt is normally about people that haven't done anything wrong as witches don't exist... Aston broke protocol simply in the fact marsh hadn't been passed fit to play.. all the rest about the RFL is a sideline and distraction (one that should be looked at and dealt with) but unless, as has been said, there is some smoking gun of the RFL saying "play him, don't worry about it" then it's on him and he's guilty.. it's no witch hunt ffs

No need for a hearing then.  You've already decided.

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

No need for a hearing then. 

We've had a hearing.

What seems to be unsettled is what form the Appeal will take.

[RP London]

3 hours ago, Griff said:

No need for a hearing then.  You've already decided.

Nope, it's not that "i'e decided", it's the fact a hearing has already decided.. the appeal seems to be around the RFL processes not the fact he shouldn't have played. Pretty much everyone is saying, if the RFL are shown to have broken protocols etc they need to be punished too, but it's not zero sum, they should both be punished.. it seems pretty clear cut that Aston was aware he was not passing through the concussion system properly and outright disregarded it. The rest is separate to this point and relatively irrelevant to the fact he disregarded this information. 

No one on here has said the process (including appeal) should be heard and gone through either.. there literally is no witch hunt as you keep saying. 

Edited November 16, 2024 by RP London

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

We've had a hearing.

What seems to be unsettled is what form the Appeal will take.

Exactly. 

It still hasn't been established whether it will be:

1. Aston hasn't done anything wrong. Or,

2. The punishment was too harsh.

 

Right now, all the content has been unclear on which point exactly the appeal is being made. Mainly it's been a lot of point one, interspersed with the acceptance it'll probably amount to point 2.

[JohnM]

On 16/11/2024 at 10:31, hawk-eye said:

So, in your opinion, all the coaches have put their reputation on the line without making themselves familiar with the information available?

Quite possibly, even probably. I doubt that, unlike you and I, they've read the published  transcript of the hearing. 

As I said: These days, in lieu of engaging their brains, people will say, share, repeat or sign anything that implies the small guy is being bullied and victimised by their particular "establishment", in this case, Aston and the RFL.

No doubt this will all become even more clear when the appeal is lodged on (insert date here)

Edited November 17, 2024 by JohnM